LBA from Optima Leagal Services*WON* DISCONTINUED BY CONSENT*****

[Movingon]

What a read... just subscribing in case I can be of use.

[Movingon]

All you appear to be doing is putting off their claim against Viano - is this wise? I would be fighting for an anullment of the debt in total as if they now produce the documentation requested they will not only have irretrievably committed an offence in not supplying them on request, they will also be in contempt of court for not filing them with their initial claim! Also, if they don't have them, they will write to the Court and say that no further documentation is available... and therefore the Judge will ONLY comply with your request to strike out their claim. He won't remove the Default or anull the debt.

 

There is no way out of this for the Claimant, but your Defence does not ask for the alleged debt to be struck out... I think perhaps it should?

[Movingon]

PT - the defence you wrote asks for the Claim to be struck out - I meant the debt... if this defence is successful then yes, their claim will be struck out, but they will be free to come back again with a properly particularised claim. If you ask for the debt to be annulled, as well, they will NEVER be able to recover this debt, accomplished in one fell swoop.

[Movingon]

I did not use "annullment" as a legal term - I used it as a term for making the alleged debt go away permanently.

[Movingon]

So if the claim's struck out the debt essentially no longer exists, even without a declaration to that effect?

[Movingon]

When is your deadline to file a defence? I would file in person at the court at the last possible moment on that day to give them the maximum time to respond to your Pt 18 request; we all know that they are not going to respond. If they DO respond, but at the last possible minute, I would file a request at Court to extend the deadline for the Defence due to their tardy response to Process.

 

If you can't file in person I would send Special Delivery the day before.

[Movingon]

OK - the hearing will be transferred to your local Court after you return the "Allocation Questionnaire". So no worries about that. Plus, if you win you can probably counter-claim for your (reasonable) travelling expenses anyway; have a statement ready for the Court in case you need it. Regarding filing the Defence, just send it Spec Deliv on the day before your deadline for Defence. (See below)

 

Your CPR Pt 18 request asks for copies of any Default Notice served; you can state that you did not receive it however you already have a copy of the one you SAY you received and will be presenting that at Court.

 

EXAMPLE: Claim submitted on day 1, issued on Day 3. Acknowledgement of Service required within 14 days - i.e. by Day 17. If your Ack of Serv states you will defend (yours did) you have a FURTHER 14 days from Day 17 - i.e. until Day 31, to submit your defence. In real life if you have the full 28 days, it's from the date on the "Acknowledgement of Service" sent to you by the Court - the "Issue Date". In ALL cases, you can phone the court and ask what your deadline is - they are extremely helpful, as long as you're not asking about points of Law.

[Movingon]

If they don't respond to your "more info", use the one that Paul posted (or his final version anyway once he's happy)... if they do respond we'll have to revisit the Defence in total anyway.

[Movingon]

Good defence! I may even use that myself LOL. Wonder if Viano got it in time?

[Movingon]

Congrats on your moderatorship PT!

 

Viano - seriously, chill - this is normal stuff.

[Movingon]

Optima won't reply to this; the next thing you will likely expect to hear is from the Court who will allocate a date and venue for the hearing... this may take a while.

[Movingon]

I presume that the idea will be for you to send a checklist to the Court of what documents you need Optima to disclose in their CPR Pt. 18 Response. The Court will then Order that these documents are disclosed by them. It's a double edged sword however as it means that Optima can ask you for information through the same process and you will have to respond. PT will no doubt have very clear instructions as to how to prepare your checklist but I think you've already asked for most of it.

[Movingon]

"Nil Carborundum Illegitimi" means don't let the barstewards grind you down...

 

Not sure about the one above.

[Movingon]

With them not having submitted any documentation at all, they are sailing VERY close to the wind. Judges don't look fondly upon timewasters; and that is EXACTLY what they are doing. You've said already that this Judge has "tipped you the wink" as it were; well imagine what she's going to be like with them now. I suspect some junior solicitor is standing upon a mat somewhere right now, listening VERY carefully to some VERY loud noise coming from his senior partner's mouth.

[Movingon]

FFS - trying to get you to back off just because you got help from people on the web - it beggars belief that they feel they have to go this far to avoid Court!! (After all, if they're that worried they could always just drop it!! If they're not confident of winning, they should not be trying to force it to Court!!)

[Movingon]

Were you supposed to send the solicitors your witness statement at the same time as the Court? Usually you send it to the Court and the other parties at the same time. They are entitled to see it; so I guess I would send it to them as a "True Copy" (i.e. a photocopy as opposed to printing it again) with dates, and a covering letter that confirms it was originally sent on . If you omitted to send it to them first time, no worries; they don't need to know that.

 

That's my take on it, anyway; wait until PT or one of the other Gurus answer as well, though, just to make sure. (See my signature).

 

Cheers!

[Movingon]

No - they've received the Defence - it's the later Witness Statement they haven't seen.

[Movingon]

I would - with bookmarks in the relevant pages. Just in case.

[Movingon]

*getting excited now*

 

Best of Luck Viano - and please do let us know how this goes - there are some important points being raised in your case which will prove, one way or another, that the advice given here at CAG is right. All the little documentary stuff they've been walking all over could be shown to invalidate the stance of lots of DCAs and Creditors; and while it won't set a precedent, people will be able to refer to your case in their documentation.

 

Very best of luck and suffer no excrement from these fools!

[Movingon]

It would be nice wouldnt it

 

but the sad reality is the Litigant in Person can only claim at the rate of £9.25 per hour

 

Is that so?! I thought that any "reasonable" (Adjudged by the Court, naturally) amount of costs in litigation could be claimed... is that £9.25 actually written in CPR?

[Movingon]

Are the terms of the order and their reasons for discontinuance confidential Paul? Or are we simply waiting for Viano to report back?

 

Either way, many congratulations to Viano, well done and thanks to Paul for all your help and massively good advice, and all in all HOORAH! for happy news :)

[Movingon]

Just to say - I am unable to give EITHER of you reputation - it says I've given you too much recently! I did try, honest!

[Movingon]

Yes its a great result for ONE person . Unfortunately it would have been a better result for ALL, IF , it had gone to court . We would then have a Court RULING, setting a precedent that a illegible application form is not acceptable as an enforceable agreement . This is why BC withdrew, they knew it would cost them millions . As it did in the unfair charges cases ! Luckly I,m already on this bandwagon .

 

(a) County Court does not have the authority to set precedents... and

(b) No precedent is required; the Law already states in black and white that Agreements must be legible.

 

By the way - had there BEEN a Judgement in Court, it could still have been referred to in other County Court cases; however it has no weight - i.e. a Judge will consider it as useful information, nothing more. A precedent set by the High Court is legally binding on lesser Courts and can only be overturned by a Court of Appeal or the House of Lords.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Movingon

[Movingon]

It seems at first inspection of the facts we have that that the "Senior Barrister at Law" they hired has given their solicitors a real roasting about what you can and what you can't get away with in a Court... and that the solicitors have returned to their client with their tail between their legs and advised their client APPROPRIATELY.

 

Interesting turn of events, this... we should ask the Mod team to link any threads which refer to Optima/Barclays/etc which are closed in this way here on this thread to get an idea of an actual trend... will someone who can safely enable their Private Messaging service please ask the question???