Hi Mindzai,

i will be a beta tester if you like on the CC spready ! ;-)

just cant wait any longer

Hi birchavo,

you have made me smile through this thread, you remind me of me a bit lol your a couple of days ahead of me on the SAR i sent mine on 20.1.07 cant wait to get them through i know i have loads of charges on the account since 2000.

Keep up the pressure ;-)

Hi Muggins,

ironically i had a reply today though nothing to do with kelly. Just said the usual stuff that they have received my request and put a few leaflets in the mix for good measure lol

I sent a snotty reply back

its on my thread ofcourse

dying to get my hands on a Credit card spready ;-)

Hi victim no more, i have been in the same boat with the halifax.

Im still at S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) stage at the minute though they only have till 3.3.07 to comply !

a few years back when i was in financial difficulties for a period of 5 weeks on the trot the bank was taking every penny of my wages the minute they got paid in, all because of their charges.

Ofcourse it didnt help when i had seven companies repeatedly trying to draw direct debits twice a day for a month (£30 every time this happened)

Im sure when i get my copy statements there will be plently to look at.

Best of luck with the claim

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank/59099-progenic-halifax.html

Just drafted a little response after looking into "relevant file systems" in the post in the morning ;-)

Dear Michaela,

Thank you for finally acknowledging my SAR request under the DPA 1998 after 22 days.

I do have however a few questions about your data storage protocols currently in place at HBOS.

Your indication to non relevant filing systems indicates that all personal data held in paper format is neither in a relevant file system nor a semi structured system either. This worries me slightly as some of the more important documents relating to myself are of course in paper format, and as such should be processed in due course as personal data.

So I make the assumption that difficulties would be encountered if (as indeed I have already) requested for instance my original agreement and any other contracts in place between myself and HBOS. This begs the question then, considering you openly admit that important documents are not processed as per DPA 1998 protocol, where are they, and just exactly how are said documents kept.

I bring your attention to the following and ask you to take note.

Definition of “relevant filing system”

This is a file or system which has a structure or index that enables us to retrieve specific information about an identifiable individual. As a general rule if it is possible to go straight to the piece of information you are looking for then it is a relevant filing system. To decide whether or not a file is a ‘relevant filing system’ ask, ‘Am I able to go straight to a particular piece of information about this person?’

It is not a 'relevant filing system' if the information is: not in a filing system; in a general file labelled with the name of the individual, unless that file has an index or is internally sub-divided; in a file where all papers are filed in date order with no structure or index.

Minutes of committee meetings are not 'relevant filing systems' unless they are indexed and the index includes an entry for Dr X.

It is a 'relevant filing system' if the information is filed in a file with an index, contents list or other means of finding pieces of information. A file about a specific aspect of our interaction with Dr X is a 'relevant filing system', for example a file called 'Dr X's leave' or 'Dr X's research' or 'Meeting about Dr X'. A general file about a particular subject, such as the payment of expenses, is a 'relevant filing system' if it has a sub section dedicated to Dr X or if the papers in the file are kept in alphabetical order so that you can go straight to a set of papers about Dr X.

Semi structured personal data.

Semi-structured personal data is information which is organised enough for you to find information about a specific individual but not organised enough for you to go straight to a particular piece of information about them.

For example you might have a folder called Mr X which contains all personal data on that individual. If you are looking for Mr. X's annual leave record you know that it will be in that folder but there are no subdivisions in the folder to allow you to get straight to the leave record itself. This is semi-structured personal data.

Only data protection principles 4 and 6 apply to semi-structured personal data. However, you must automatically include all semi-structured personal data in any response to a subject access request.

Seventh principle

Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.

The definitions above provide useful parameters and suggest that manually held personal data should at least be in a semi structured format. Any personal data in a semi structured format would, even though possibly not structured as thoroughly as a computer filing system, still be accessible as a block of personal data. My SAR request clearly states that I want All personal data no matter what format it is held in. Clearly then as an example my mortgage “paper” documents highly important and relevant, according to yourself are in no particular filing system and cannot be easily found. This also raises further questions about HBOS ability to recognise the relevance of data, security protocol, and file system structuring ect.

Of course under the FOI 2005 (freedom of information act 2005) I would be able to access All information held on me no matter what format, file system or nuisance to the data controller. I suggest this route could cause significant difficulties for a very busy data controller, and would only be a last resort if all other attempts of access failed. In the test case Durant v Financial Services Authority (2003) it was the judge that defined “relevant” under the DPA, and as he said himself the next case may redefine it again. I feel it is a weak response from data controllers who use the term “relevant file system” as a means of not disclosing personal data. And one can only assume incompetence on the part of the controller for lack of organisation. I must point out that if for any reason I consider the SAR to be incomplete by lack of disclosure I will not hesitate to force compliance through the court. After which time I will apply for a detailed and extremely time consuming execution of FOIA for full disclosure. I hope this clarifies my position on personal data and what is “relevant” and what is not.

I must remind you that the deadline for the SAR to be executed is 3.3.2007 however to fully comply with said act all documents and audio recordings should be posted No later than 1.3.2007.

Yours Sincerely

Progenic7

Finally today i get an acknowledgement (thats all mind you) enclosed there was 3 leaflets on the DPA,credit scoring and complaints process.

A whole lot of nothing really, oh well time flys and aeroplanes crash

not sure what is meant by relevent filing system, so i assume she is saying the original agreement signed by myself is not "Relevent" and anything on paper including all my statements. Need to delve a bit deeper as to what is relevent !

heres the crap she sent today anyway.....

HBOS

Business Risk – Retail (DSAR)

Trinity Road

Halifax

HX1 2RG

13th February 2007

Direct Line 01422 336200

Hey Progenic7

Data Subject Access Request — Account Number 0101010101 - Sort Code 1010101010

Thank you for your letter requesting access to the personal information held about you regarding the above account.

Please find enclosed copies of the following three leaflets for your information:

‘About you - Personal Information and Your Identity’

‘Credit Scoring - How we work out whether we can give you credit’

‘Personal Customer Complaints — Here’s what we’ll do’

I confirm I am currently processing your request and a copy of the information you are entitled to receive will be supplied to you as soon as possible, and certainly within the 40 days allowed by the Data Protection Act 1998.

Please note, HBOS plc is not obliged to supply records held in paper format as they do not form part of a relevant filing system.

Further details about the Data Protection Act, how personal data is defined and your rights under the Act are available on the Information Commissioner’s website at ICO – Information Commissioner's Office.

If you want to apply for details of your credit reference data, please refer to the ‘Credit Scoring’ leaflet for an application form and the ‘About You’ leaflet for additional information. In the meantime, if you have any particular queries regarding your request, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely

Michaela Topham

Data Protection Consultant

Retail Business Risk

encs

HBOS plc, Registered in Scotland No. SC218813. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. HBOS plc isa holding company,

subsidiaries of which are regulated by the Financial Services Authority

Been thinking about the MBNA case today and i have decided atleast initially i will try and claim all charges, pre six year charges and mis sold PPI in one claim.

I feel this is justified as it all falls under one account, in a similar time frame and due to incompetence !

So the claim will be structured along these lines.

Standard charges to six years

Pre six year charges under s32 (1) a,b,c

PPI fraudulently sold

compensation

All costs (ie postage fee's, court fee's, ink for printer, envelopes the lot)

Labour @ £9.25 an hour x many many days

SAR fee @ £10.00

Compound Contractual interest on the lot

Any thoughts ?

Hi pixelpirate

yeah photo copying can be a pain in the A** huh ;-)

Hi Bob,

that could maybe triple your claim or even more !

go for it all they can do is say no, however keep pressing them and im sure they will give in.

If they want a legal reason as to why just hit them with s32 (1) b

ok i wait with baited breath ;-)

clears my throat....ahhhh hmmmmm

ladybird im still laughing at a post of yours a read yesterday about banks replying late, where you put later that day, later that year or later than you expected

so what could or would happen in the case of a closed account anything ?

also does the s85 only apply to credit cards or does it apply to banks aswell ?

T4FF thanks point taken, something got lost in translation there. (i knew what i meant anyways) lol

;-)

Muggins your very welcome, most people on here are pretty friendly as im sure you have noticed. dont know about you but im going to give kellyduffy a quick email to see if i can hurry them up.

Buster cancel the lawyers NOW. the meter is running the whole time !

if i was you accept the £5500 but be sure to say that you are only accepting it as a partial settlement and by no means do you accept it is a full and final offer.

If they insist on this then kindly decline it, you will get what you ask if you keep your bottle.

Best of luck

Superburger if the accounts live then its very very doubtful they would delete anything on that account.

Why would they ?

Hi bob,

yeah i have read the same thread all the way through, though when you look round the forums plenty of people are claiming further back than six years and everyone knows it.

Thats why bankfodder started the thread to get everyone to make their own minds up about it.

When you say is it proven, well no but then its not disproven either. Because upto yet a bank still hasnt turned up and defended in court yet, not even on previous to six years claims.

Try it you have nothing to lose they may well just pay it without question, they may pay it after a small fight, or they may push it to court and then not defend. Either way im sure you will get it and remember the Limitation act is on your side !

they concealed and you didnt find out untill 2006...job done mate

so go get em ;-)

Hi muggins73

i sent my SAR 20.1.07 and upto yet still havnt even had a reply, i sent a snotty letter about a week ago and still nothing.

Im not really sure if this is average with halifax or not, to be honest i havnt spent much time in this forum as i have 5 live cases going at the same time lol.

i have subscribed to this thread so i can follow progress as were both about at the same timescales.

best of luck ;-)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank/59099-progenic-halifax.html

hey superburger,

is the account still live ? if it is then this is almost certainly a lie, if its not live then its possible but unlikely.

Send them a reminder about the DPA request stating that you will only accept a full disclosure of all data and remind them how long they have left before you lodge a complaint against them.

If they really dont have this info tell htem you will be estimating charge on that period at your own disgression.

best of luck

Hi James,

initially seeing as your case wont be heard until April you dont need to do that much apart from stay on this site and read,read and read some more.

The more you prepare yourself with information the better, read lots of threads similar to your case and learn from them.

Check out all the statute and the legal side of things.

In my experience the vast majority of banks pay before the hearing, especially if you write to the legal team and say you are more than willing to save court time, and would except an out of court offer.

However dont get soft (as they will expect this) they reaise alot of people start to get nervous before court and want to settle, though they want it more than you trust me ;-)

best of luck

Just wanted to point out that the standard DPA timescales are 6 years however many people have reclaimed charges over six years as this is easily achievable.

Best of luck

progenic7

Buster you really dont need any legal assistance in my opinion solicitors are just another type of legaised robber, the no win no fee's people will be asking for 20-30% + VAT. And the thing is you are guaranteed the win.

Write back and accept their offer as a partial payment stating you do not accept this as full and final.

keep up the pressure and let them know you know what your talking about and there is no way you will be backing down.

Spend lots of time on this site, read and read and read. check out all the links to people like the FSA and OFT, read all the ACTs and statute, prepare yourself.

Other people wont do this for you, though many will help if you still cant find what you need after your own attempts.

Best of luck

 

Have sent S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to A&L Credit Card (account riddled with charges) end of December last year, 40 days are up on Monday 12.02. with no reply whatsoever

Will then send the LBA for S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) non compliance on Tuesday. If still no reply after the next 7 days I will probably have to go down the N1 route through the courts

Have however received this months statement through the post with small note on the bottom stating the account is being prepared to be sold to a third party.

When that happens, what do I have to do then ? Do I have to change everything to the purchaser of the debt or still MBNA ?

Also if the purchaser contacts me initially, is it woth to CCA them and see if they can come up with a true signed agreement to start with as I had the CC with A&L for probably 11 or 12 years and it may be interesting to test if they can find the agreement ?

Hi Nicole, firstly i would send in the complaint to the information commissioner so atleast they are aware of it, and you then have leverege. Then i would write them a very snotty letter letting them know they are now in breach of the Data Protection Act and You have sent in complaint to information commissioner. State in letter they have 7 days and you will take them to court where you will be seeking compensation on top also.

Dont worry about the account being sold your issues still lie with MBNA, they are the people who levied charges on your account. They are the people you will be taking to court (if that day comes).

It wouldnt be a bad idea to send CCA request to the third party just to check all is in order. But apart from that ignore the third party for now.

Persist with MBNA and dont let up, let them know you are strong and will not under any circumstance back down from their s**t

Best of luck

pm if you need any more help ;-)

my current MBNA battle ensues http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/59101-progenic-mbna.html

well i have noticed quite a few people who have received money asked for go back and ask for more and still got it. It seems Mbusa will do anything to stay out of court.

I would ring them and ask for all your costs ie. postage, ink for printer, envelopes and all your own time @ £9.00 an hour atleast.

ohhh im sure you must have spent atleast 10 days preparing all this ;-)

cynic me ? lol

i was actually referring to my case where the account is now closed i expect its too late to actually pin anything on them yeah ?

though i can understand the relevence when the account is still live.