Hi Battleaxe,

well no news is good news or thats what they say hun ;-)

your right about the costs iss ue BTW, though you can claim upto £200 in expert advice (quite what the definition of expert is im not sure)

keep up the fight girl !

Lol @MBNA

The Judge @ MBNA

millions of potential claiments @ MBNA

@ MBNA legal team

Bring it on coz you got a fight on ya hands ;-) muhahaha

yeah thanks for that im really really looking forward to my day in court, though i expect the pu****s will pay before i get the chance to publicly humiliate them.

after the years of crap i put up with from them, thinking they were in the right. The sleepless nights and worry.

Revenge is sweet my friend and now i have my turn :grin:

MBNA You are pathetic !

Hi Davey,

i just noticed the hassle you was receiving over the phone from Mbusa, well last year my mum started getting prank phone calls which lead into quite nasty weird phone calls, as you can guess she was very upset by them.

I got on the phone to BT and told them the situation, they then siad that under the circumstances they could provide a service that permanantly blocks any unwanted calls (the good bit is they get a nasty message saying the call has been logged and not to ring ever again).

All you do is straight after you have had an unwanted call is put in a code number, press hash and there you go next time they ring.....Sorry go away !

BT gave me the service free for 6 months which worked perfectly for my mum, never had any trouble since.

Hi phatram

good going both of you i knew as usual it would only be a matter of time,

did you try and claim any costs or labour during the claim ?

my own battle with MBNA is just begining im hoping its going to get interesting ;-) http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/59101-progenic-mbna.html#post495470

Well Done !

Just drafted a response for Mr Vernon (or mrs) maybe slightly sarcastic but im not too bothered about it considering they have robbed me of thousands.

goes in the post first thing in the morning ! any thoughts would be appreciated as i feel all alone here somehow ;-)

Without Prejudice

Dear R Vernon

Thank you for your acknowledgement dated 8.2.2007 with regard to my SAR under the DPA, and safe receipt of a cheque to the value of £10.00. Though I am very disappointed that such a large and well established company can display such disregard for their customers, by way of taking three weeks to respond, I do appreciate that you must be extremely busy in the compliance department of late. You may notice if you refer back to my original request dated 20.1.07 and then 1.2.07 I made it very clear that I have changed address. That said I still feel it necessary to draw your attention to the top left hand corner of this page and ask you to take note of new address, as clearly you failed to look at the time you responded. The identification previously forwarded to you shows this as my address and I trust no further discussion on this mater is necessary.

I respectfully ask you to take particular notice of my previous request dated 1.2.07 and fully expect said request to be executed as per instruction and without exception.

After watching and reading several hundred cases dealt with by MBNA’s compliance and legal department, I have noticed a tendency in protocol I feel I must comment on.

Firstly as my original SAR request submits I insist this is treated as a full subject access request and under no circumstances do I want this dealt with free of charge or as some kind of favour from you.

Secondly the standard response copied from template you send out to most people stating how transparent your costs and terms and conditions are, and how you feel they are fully justified ect ect ect ect. Simply will not wash with me! I suggest you save that kind of talk for the court as i'm sure the judge will be very interested in that particular argument as you are proving your costs to him and explaining policy on how PPI is sold.

I must remind you the Subject Access Request time limit expires on 3.3.07, though to be sure to comply with the DPA the documents and recordings should be posted no later than 1.3.07.

I will show no hesitation in beginning court action to force compliance through the legal system and at the same time lodging a complaint with the information commissioner.

I do sincerely hope that this matter may continue unhindered and without any further error on MBNA’s part.

I trust this fully clarifies my position.

Yours sincerely

Progenic7

Hi all,

forgive my ignorance in the area of s85, as i understand it everytime a new card is issued the lender has to supply a copy of the agreement correct ?

ok well MBNA and RBS and Barclaycard have all done this to me, however mbna and rbs are paid off and closed now. So in real terms what does this mean under the law. ie what would actually happen to them for this breach, nothing i expect as usual ?

NatWest i did of course send an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) 20.1.07 which online finance responded to and indeed they did give me a full list of charges however although the list is complete in terms of what i paid and what i was charged, it doesnt show any interest. This may br due partly to the fact it was a prearanged agreement with interest built into the loan. I have sent off another letter only this morning asking them to specify interest charges ect. heres the thread if its any help to anybody.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland-bank/59100-progenic-rbs-advanta.html#post537174

i know this is my RBS thread but the online finance SAR is identical wording.

Hi bob,

firstly the six years doesnt have much to do with the SAR request, the bank or card company has to by law send all data no matter how long held on file. If they have 20 years of data on you then they have to send it to you.

However i get the impression you are referring to the Limitation Act 1980 which states a normal claim can only be bought within a six year time scale. There is however exceptions to this rule and claiming back bank fee's is one of them. Under the limitation act it states that if the defendant was for any reason trying to conceal a wrong doing that the claiment can bring the case from the moment he/her found that out. ie 2006 when the OFT declared that bank charges were disproportionate.

So as far as your claim is concerned you only became aware that the bank was concealing in 2006 so thats when the clock starts ticking.

Good advice initially though, dont mention the six year period until they do. Then when or if they do hit them with this.

32.--

• (1) .... where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act, either-
  • (a) the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant; or
    
  • (b) any fact relevant to the plaintiff's right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant; or
    
  • © the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake;

the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it....

hope this helped mate !

feel free to click my scales ;-)

BTW hows the credit card spready coming along ?

Hi Mindzai,

firstly id like to say well done on the first spreadsheet i have found that actually does what i want of it first time around. (no offence to other spread sheet makers BTW)

I have hit a small problem im using this spready to work out interest on a car laon finance agreement on which i received many charges. ie refused direct debit, late payment ect.

The only thing is on the statement of account i have been sent by them, it only lists the charges but doesnt show interest taken ect. As this was built into the payments from day one. ie i took the loan of £6200 spread over 60 months total payment £8400. i know the apr was 16.9% on the loan

Its just i have no figures to enter into the right hand box on the spready, so im struggling to work that out. Also because i paid the loan off 18 months early there was a rebate of £657 but they didnt send it to me, so can i charge interest on that too ?

any advice would be greatly appreciated !

finally after the snotty letter they got the message and sent me an acknowledgement, though it was sent to my old address. Seems they have trouble reading as i made it very clear on all correspondance that i have changed address. Has anyone else received a letter from R Vernon ?

MBNA Europe Bank Limited

chester business park

Chester

CH4 9FB

Phone: 01244-672000 Fax: 01244-672100

Our Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

8.2.07 February 2007

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your request to be provided with personal data pursuant to the Data

Protection Act 1998. I confirm receipt of a cheque made payable to MBNA Europe

Bank Ltd for £10 and a copy of your Driver’s Licence and passport

Your request to be supplied with a copy of all information held by MBNA relating to yourself is being processed by our Compliance department.

Please note MBNA Europe Bank Ltd will provide the information to you within the 40 days allowed by the terms of the act.

Yours sincerely

R Vernon

Compliance Department

MBNA Europe Bank Limited is authorised and regulated in the UK by the Financial Services Authority and subscribes to The Banking Code.

Registered Office: MBNA Europe Bank Limited, Stansfield House, Chester Business Park, Chester CH4 gQQ. Registered in England No. 2783251.

OK its time to bump this thread back in ...................

 

The Fraud Act 2006 is now in and the banks are still applying unlawful charges. They are not defending any actions that we are aware of, therefore continuing to apply such unlawful charges may constitute fraudulent trading.

 

For a Plc conviction for this has now been increased by the above act to 14 years.

 

Could or should we begin to inundate the police, SFO and MPs with requests that they look into why a £4.5 billion pound fraud is not being investigation by the relevant authorities ?????

 

:D:D:D:D:D

meagain yeah very true, and i think sergeant has a point with this comment, well why dont we ?

Hi Glenn,

i must admit i have not ome across this term before, and to be honest its a bit late at night to get my head round it.

I have just scanned through and it might as well be written in dutch lol

i'll look again tomorrow after a good nights sleep, working in the daytime though (worse luck) but shall continue the plight when home

keep up the good work

The other thing to remember with the new fraud act is, just like in tortious misrepresentation cases the whole responsibility and burden of proof shifts from us to them as it were.

Just by anyone claiming they had committed an offence under any one of them now requires the bank to prove thats not the case.

this is how i interperate the law anyway

Ian,

the best of luck mate not that i think you will need it or anything if you have used the arguments you say. Im still working on my prelim making sure i have all bases covered.

Then again im not so sure its a great idea to give to much away at prelim stage, perhaps a better tactic to drop the arguments on them at the last minute.

anyway good luck mate !

Hi Bicester1,

i have done alot of reading up on the law last couple of days and as far as PPI goes i think the main argument should be based on, Tortious Misrepresentation. This is the law:

Claims under the Act

The necessary elements for a claim under the Misrepresentation Act are a false statement of fact, which induced the representee to enter into a contract thereby causing him loss (hereafter referred to as 'tortious misrepresentation'). The representation need not have become a term of the contract. The Misrepresentation Act has, in practice, superseded the old common law concepts of 'mere' and fraudulent misrepresentation. Accordingly, it is the tortious misrepresentation claim which is primarily dealt with in this article.

The difference

There are three main differences between tortious and contractual misrepresentation. First in the method of calculating damages, secondly in the availability of rescission as a remedy and thirdly in the burden of proof. Each is dealt with in turn below.

Burden of Proof.

In a contractual claim the claimant would need to prove the contract, the term breached, the breach itself, the damage and causation. However, in a claim under the Misrepresentation Act the claimant need only prove that the representation was made and that it was false. The burden then passes, by virtue of s2(1) of the Misrepresentation Act, to the defendant to prove a reasonable belief in the truth of the representation. If the defendant is not able to discharge his evidential burden and make out the defence of reasonable belief, the claimant should succeed in its claim and recover those losses which he can show were caused by the misrepresentation. Therefore, it may be easier to prove a tortious misrepresentation claim than a contractual one. Accordingly, the tortious misrepresentation is pleaded as a safety net to the primary contractual claim.

Ofcourse in a PPI claiming case there is much more than just misrepresentation to bring to the court, however i feel this would probably be the linch pin of the claim because the burden of proof in entirley on them !

Bump

anybody come across anything like this before ?

bicester1 thanks for that mate, im always looking out for any info that can be added to my claim.

Ian what do you think are the timescales for you on this case ?

With the MBNA PPI im going to try and lump it together with my charges claim, atleast initially in the prelim anyway. Im not sure whether that would quite work in court though.

Ian have you got a link to your prelim for PPI letter ?

thanks mad nick i have looked through that post from time to time but im going to go and have another look now to refresh my mind.

Glenn point noted on the contractual issue

Hi Mad nick,

just read back that thread and can see that maybe i had a "tone" didnt mean anything by it. Just got a bit excited when somebody seemed to have a precise new argument on this matter, i just wanted to get to the bones of it thats all.

Ah well back to the drawing board, i have been trawling through swaithes of legal act's this evening to try and find something i could use. I think i have though im not going to post it here just yet until im sure.

Keep up the good work people !

Johnny

Page Number - 2

Desc Date .............Amount ...........Balance

DD 01/12/05 ......140.96 ...........5542.04

DD 03/01/06 ......140.96 ...........5401.08

DD 01/02/06 ......140.96 ...........5260.12

DD 01/03/06 ......140.96 ...........5119.16

DID 03/04/06 .....140.96 ...........4978.20

DD 02/05/06 ......140.96 ...........4837.24

DID 01/06/06 .....140.96 ...........4696.28

DD 03/07/06 ......140.96 ...........4555.32

DD 01/08/06 ......140.96 ...........4414.36

REB 01/08/06 .....657.18 ...........3757.18

ML 01/08/06 ....—213.00 ...........3970.18

SETP 01/08/06 ...4012.56 ........-42.38

REB 01/08/06 .....614.80 ......... -657.18

REB 01/08/06 ....-657.18 ...........0.00

CHEQ 24/01/07 ...10.00 ...........-10.00

ML 24/01/07 .....-10.00 .............0.00

TOTAL S

.......................8627.40............0.00

as you can see i paid the total settle ment figure of £4012 then according to them i had a £657 rebate any ideas anyone, do you think they owe me this and have forgot to send it ?

really appreciate any ideas on this

heres the statement of account which shows the rebate (REB = rebate clearly) still wondering about it.

Sorry to butt in with a FWIW, but I'm pursuing a claim against Abbey including contractual interest, but I'm claiming the authorised overdraft rate on the basis that I'm just reclaiming the interest they took directly associated with the charges (I was virtually always in overdraft). My next stage is AQ, so I'll be interested to see what happens. But I just wanted to make the point that "contractual interest" is not just about the "mutuality & reciprocity" issue (about which I have to say I have personal reservations) - just in case this thread put newbies off "contractual interest" per se. Regards, Mad Nick

Hi mad nick, well what else is it about then exactly in your opinion. Exact legal arguments would be prefered rather than interpretation.

progenic

Hi Marcelle,

lol well its important to be armed and ready just in case its needed, i know that the chances are very slim that any bank or CC company will show in court but just lately there have been a few cases where they are showing up, and trying to abuse the court system to boot.

Personally speaking i would relish the chance to go head to head with one of them, though i know its some peoples worst fear.

When the day comes i know i will be prepared and ready for action, and the new fraud act will be playing a part in my claim (especially for PPI)