Received the SAR documents today from On:Line Finance (gmac UK)

the documents relate to a 5 year car loan arranged via Stoneacre Car Group.

i paid the loan off in full about 3.5 years into the agreement, i thought when i did this i would save some money in interest by paying early, though they said not.

However looking through the statements i have noticed that when i paid the settlement figure on 1.8.06 which was £4012, on the very same day online put a note to say they rebated me £50, then later the same day they siad they rebated another £712.

Seems strange because i didnt receive any of this rebate !

anyway worked out the charges to about £900 in a three month period, lol amazing what can add up so quickly

any thoughts on the rebate anybody ?

Hi ian

do you have any good links to the misrepresentation and FSA principles ?

Hi Ian,

it makes very good reading doesnt it ?

but not just good reading i think we have a real argument here with this new act, so much of it is relevant its untrue. i will certainly be using paragraphs from it aswell as all the other relevant acts i can think of, the more ammo we have the better.

I have been following Battleaxe V MBNA and she has lumped together a claim for PPI with her charges, it will be interesting to see what the outcome will be.

ok thanks Battleaxe, thats what i will go for then.

am i right in thinking you can claim upto £200 in expert costs in the small claims court ?

that letter sucks i think your right they know they havnt got a leg to stand on and they are just stalling again as usual.

keep on banging away at the door hun sometime soon someone will have to open it.

Hi cornflake,

i have also looked into the mutuality of obligation and i think you are right it generally deals with contracts in employment and not general consumer issues. Maybe the argument could be used on some osrt of basis, im not sure to be honest, zoots would probably know !

Im going to be very careful when it comes to working out the interest, ie do it with several spreadies and refer back each time, then maybe get a few peeps to check it over for me.

I think if we give the judge the option in out PoC ie compond contractual @ say 29% first option, then 23%, then 16.9% then s69 @8 % simple he has the options there to see your being very fair and open to suggestion, and as long as he can see you attempted making it as accurate as possible i dont see a problem really. And yes like you say the banks often work on the principle of Approximate !

progenic

Hi Pom,

Vamps is a CAG member better known as Vampiress, she is a wizard with the old spreadsheets and has her own pages hosted by Google power. there is a link in the library to her pages somewhere, have a good look around the site and you will get a much better idea of whats on here and where to find it.

personally i have found some of the spreadsheets that are doing the rounds a bit too basic, others way too complicated and others that are plain inacurate.

In recent light of what some of the banks are trying in court its all too important to be right on the money so to speak !

thanks T4FF

yeah thats a good idea if i give them every oppertunity to correct my own figures it puts the burden back on them. And at least the judge will be able to see in black and white that i tried on several occasions to be as acurate as possible. Thats it then thanks again for that i will do that on every claim i make (and im going to have lots, at present im starting 5)

i think as long as a judge can see we have made an honest attempt to retrieve all the relevent figures he will not strike that out, not for that reason anyway. Thats what has happened recently with another CAGer the Cobbetts barrister asked the judge to strike the case out because the figures were probably a mile out, however the judge was a kind man because he let the person have another 28 days to correct any potential mistakes before his return to court.

Hi all,

firstly i dont quite feel like a newbie anymore now im past my 100 posts ;-) lol

now then to the point, i am about to make a claim to MBNA for the usual penalty fee's, however i also had a PPI with them that i believe was mis sold by them. I didnt tick the box on the original agreement and so for about 3 weeks they hassled me over the phone to take PPI out, i told them i was self employed and that i wouldnt be covered (which i wasnt) but they insisted i would be and so i took it out.

Firtly i have just read through the new Fraud Act 2006 and im liking what i see and actually think most of us have a case under the fraud act alone.

agree ?

secondly do you think it wise to lump the PPI with the CC fee's and bring it as one mother of a claim against them, quoting every statute going especially the new fraud act ?

any thoughts people...

progenic aka Johnny

Thanks Tf i have been reading a few threads lately one in particular that shows we have to be bang on the money with our interest claims, as the banks barristers are pulling the claims apart if they arent correct to the exact penny.

i think the only way is to ask them what the rates were when the account was live, that way in court it seems fair i reckon. ;-)

want to see the outcome of a few threads first though, just to see what the judge says !

hmmm ok so lets start with the basics, what are the arguments for claiming contractual interest answering as if you were in court ?

response drafted up and ready to send in the am (recorded as usual) i will be claiming all costs including postage back later on ;-)

Privacy & Data Protection

Radbroke Hall

Knutsford

Cheshire

WA16 9EU

Fax +44 (0)1565 613583

Tel +44 (0)1565 614000

5th February 2007

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

DATA PROTECTION ACT

Dear Mr Townsend,

With reference to your letter dated 2nd Feb and with regard to my subject access request under the data protection act 1998 in which you were asked to comment.

{quote} “We refer to your letter of 31 January, which was passed to this department for comment due to your request for certain information, relating to bank charges, under the terms of the Data Protection Act [“the DPA”].”

1) Could you please define “We” as i'm not entirely sure if you are making reference to the whole of Barclays, your entire department, or simply your close friends, as your letter is signed only by yourself. Talking in the third person can cause some confusion and I feel it important to know whom I am undertaking correspondence with.

2) {quote} “Please be aware that the Bank is not under an obligation to present information according to any particular format. However, you may of course obtain this data from copy statements and these will be supplied to you within the next few weeks without charge on this occasion” This has also caused me some confusion as I made no reference to a specific format or media material in said letter of 31.1.07 .

I can only assume that you have confused the order of my correspondence and are referring to my original request SAR of 20.1.07 in which {quote}

“Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation on the two accounts listed above and previously held with you. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.” However this is somewhat of a paradox due to the fact I stated that a set of statements would be acceptable.

3) I bring to your attention my specific request of a SAR dated 20.1.07 {quote} “I must insist that this is treated as a Subject Access Request and the fee is accepted.” Oddly you seem to have ignored my wishes and yet you make the implication that this service be done for free.

I made reference to “implication” because {quote} “As the Bank is providing the copy statements on a complimentary basis your payment is returned herewith.” Unfortunately there seems to be no payment “herewith”, clearly then i’m sure you can see the culmination of errors and contradictions in your reply have lead me to be slightly sceptical of your “comment”.

I must remind you that you have until 4pm 3.3.07 to execute the Subject Access Request, and said date refers to the documents being in my possession not merely posted on that day. After that you will be in breach of data protection act. Act now as you may be relying on your early actions later in court and a judge may take a very dim view of such a business deliberately stalling or supplying incomplete data.

The Information Commissioner has asked to be advised if I do not receive the data I have requested by this date. I hope this letter has not in any way caused you any further confusion.

Yours sincerely

Progenic7

hi all,

lol i still think im not getting the hang of this compound contractual interest thing, i have that many spreadsheets now i dont know where to start.

i got another one off mindzai and that just made things worse lol

i give up, im changing tack and going to pay the bank instead it will be easier..

Another letter from the sharp Mr Townsend, its pretty awesome when switched on cookies operate the way they do. He says he sent me the payment back but No payment in the envelope (not only that in my SAR i Insisted they take payment). Also i made no mention of which particular format i wanted the copies to be sent in !

"the lights are on but he aint at home"

lol here it is, im just working on a response right now ;-)

Privacy & Data Protection

Radbroke Hall

Knutsford

Cheshire

WA16 9EU

Fax +44 (0)1565 613583

Tel +44 (0)1565 614000

2 February 2007

www.barclays.com

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear progenic7

DATA PROTECTION ACT

We refer to your letter of 31 January, which was passed to this department for comment due to your request for certain information, relating to bank charges, under the terms of the Data Protection Act [“the DPA”].

Please be aware that the Bank is not under an obligation to present information according to any particular format. However, you may of course obtain this data from copy statements and these will be supplied to you within the next few weeks without charge on this occasion. We would advise however, that statement information prior to 2000 is stored manually rather than on computer. Therefore, if your account was opened prior to this time, there may be an increase in the time required to collate the information you have requested. I apologise in advance should this delay be the cause of any inconvenience to you.

As the Bank is providing the copy statements on a complimentary basis your payment is returned herewith.

Yours sincerely

Peter Townsend

Manager, Barclays Data Protection

Barclays Bank PLC. Authonsed and regulated by the Financial Services Authority.

Registered in England. Registered No. T026167. Registered Office: 1 Churchill Place, London E14 5HP.

Hi T4FF

i certainly hope so mate, and if one tiny lil item is missing i'll have them on a breach. Hope they dont find it all i really really want to give them sh*t just like they have done to so many others.

watch this space mate its gonna be messy i promise ;-)

muhahahaha

Thanks George

maybe you can detect by my actions that im Not scared anymore to challenge the banks. I have a pretty good idea of my rights and have free legal advise where necessary. (handy because you can claim £200 in legal advise costs back in the small claims court ;-) )

i want to give the banks a bit of what they have given everyone else for years.....SH*T

keep watching mate ;-)

this is gonna be fun

muhaahahaaaaaa

Hi all,

im usre most of you have heard this many times before but for the sake of an interest newbie could somebody with pricise knowledge of this explain. Explain as if they were explaining to a 10 year old please lol ;-)

Im claiming compound contractual interest btw.

ive seen may people have their two pence worth and this only confuses the matter.

as i understand it= A = the charges B= interest on charges c=contractual interest

so say my charges are £1000

and the interest taken by bank is £100

and contractual interest is £200

whats the compound bit ?

So A+B+C = actual claim

what is the rate for the interest on the charges ?

what is the precise formulae for these things please help my heads a shed over this

Hi all,

does anyone have a recent unathorised borrowing rate from barclays.

preferably the highest rate they do ;-)

if so can you post it here so i remember thanks http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/59103-progenic-barclays.html

btw this is my 100th post hurray ! ;-) :o

hi all

anyone have a recent unauthorised borrowing rate from the Halifax they wish to share ?

the highest rate ofcourse ;-)

if so could you post it here cheers http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank/59099-progenic-halifax.html#post495451

Hi all anyone have a recent unauthorised borrowing rate from RBS credit card (Gold card)

the highest rate ofcourse ;-)

if so can you post it here cheers http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland-bank/59100-progenic-rbs-advanta.html#post495468

lol

yeah your probably right just wanted to hear that from someone else

nice thought though

Hey battleaxe,

when they finally give me my SAR details and i put together a list of charges, do you think i stand a chance if i lump in with that my mis-sold PPI charges too ?

on what basis am i claiming the PPI back you ask ? i was self employed through the entire period (and it was pushed onto me over the phone, where they insisted it would cover a self emplyed person)

I have demanded the tape recording back in the SAR aswell, which will be funny if they actually send it.

Also i was going to claim my own costs back with the claim @

£125 per day (by the time they pay probably x 10 days lol justified by the fact i actually earn double that in a day so fair i reckon)

postage

ink cartridges for printer

stationary

actual charges + dailly interest

compound contractual interest 27.9%

Mis-sold PPI (self employed) £1450 + interest

what ya reckon hun ?

;-) muhaha

Stornoway are you sure about the rates of interest and the difference between daily and yearly interest rates ?

what i mean is it cannot possibly be 22% daily interest more like 0.002% daily dont you think ?

Just sat here thinking about my various battles that are about to ensue, and i have just had a thought. (be careful now)

Thing is if say the banks or MBNA for instance are charging 27% or 23% or whatever the current rate is on unauthorised borrowing. Well that their rate not ours.

So though im sure this hasnt been tested anywhere, i think that maybe we have an argument for charging Our own rate of interest on their unauthorised barrowing (theft as you will)

What i mean is if your owed £1000 back then why not charge them 40% on your own money, or any figure you want.

At the end of the day they had no right taking the money and just because they may charge 23%, that doesnt mean you have to or does it ?

By the fact they have charged you over the odds makes their contract null and void. And as many have mentioned if i said i was going to kill you if you didnt do something and i did it, doesnt make it legal now does it.

i think we have an argument for this, i'll be looking into it further anyways...

anyone have any thoughts on this ?

Heres the modified reminder letter sent off to various people high up in MBNA, i hope this gets some sort of reaction. muhaha ;-)

Mr Wooden Plank

Customer Advocate Office Manager (tomorrow vice president)

MBNA Europe Bank Limited

Chester Business Park

Chester

CH4 9FB

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Account number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear Plank,

I bring your attention to my letter dated 20.1.07 requesting a complete disclosure of data under the data protection act 1998 (Subject Access Request), I refer to complete disclosure in its most rigorous sense. It is noted that even though said letter was sent 20.1.07 and received by MBNA on 23.1.07 and signed for (proof collected from royal mail) that you have not acknowledged my request as yet. I was under the impression that a usual professional business would do such things as a matter of course, and purely out of business etiquette .

Strangely after looking through years of statements from MBNA I noticed a change in account numbers and didn’t know why this has occurred. I have not been informed about this and find the matter very odd indeed.

. Furthermore I elaborate on my original request and listed below is a clear definition of what I require from you. This request is in Addition to my previous one dated 20.1.07 which should still be executed as per request.

I must also point out as it has been bought to my attention recently, that ALL information no matter how long held on file must be disclosed fully and in a format that is legible. It seems a lot of banks and credit card companies wrongly interpret the DPA 1998 as only needing to disclose six years worth of personal data, this is wholly wrong . I will also point out that The Limitations Act 1980 has no correlation to this request at all and has no bearing on the Data Protection Act 1998.

You have until 3.3.07 after that you will be in breach of data protection act. Act now as you will be relying on your early actions later in court and a judge will take a very dim view of a such a business deliberately stalling or supplying incomplete data.

I am now also requesting further details held by your organization and I would like to remind you have until 5pm on the 3rd of March 2007 to supply me with all the information I am requesting. The Information Commissioner has asked to be advised if I do not receive the data I have requested by this date.

Please note a cheque for £10 has already been sent in my original SAR dated 20.1.07 which you already have received.

I would be grateful if you would provide the following: -

• Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist between myself and your organisation, including copies of any documents you hold in support of same.
  
• Details of the identity of any individuals or organisations who have provided you with my personal information together with copies of any letters of instruction provided by them, or any contracts entered into between yourselves and the third party, and the relevant dates to which those contracts related.
  
• Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contracts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.
  
• Full details and copies of any documents upon which you relied when you have provided my personal or financial information to any individual, organisation or third party.
  
• Full copies or transcripts of any computer logs or database records kept in relation to myself or in relation to my financial or personal information.
  
• Full copies of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial information, or which pertains to myself.
  
• Details of all systems you currently have in place to ensure my personal or financial information is kept securely, including details of those officers who currently have control of same, and at the time it was held or provided to a third party.
  
• Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.
  
• Full hard copy print outs of any of my personal or financial information held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations. And Audio files specifically the tape recording of conversation had between myself and one of your staff regarding the mis-sale of PPI
  
• Your registration number with the Information Commissioners Office.
  
• Your Consumer Credit License number.
  
• Your VAT reg number

Where reference to emails is given above, these emails should be taken from your email servers or backups / archives held in a magnetic or digital format. These emails may not be present on a user’s local system, and may require the assistance of your IT department / IT providers, who you should contact immediately for their provision.

Please confirm whether you hold a physical file with details of my personal and / or financial information. If so, please provide details and dates of any instance when this file has left your control, to whom it has been communicated, the method of transportation / communication e.g. Royal Mail, courier, by hand, electronically. Please provide a full copy of this file Where my physical file has left your offices, please provide details of any precautions taken to ensure that my information has not been lost, stolen, misplaced or made available to anybody who does not have authorised access, including those who would use my information for the purposes of identity theft, or registered with any credit agencies. Please also confirm whether any of the documents held within the physical file are computer generated.

Under S.40 of The Administration of Justice Act 1970, if you believe you have provided my information to any organisation, agent, or individual who could, or may have used it for unlawful purposes, you should contact me immediately, and provide full details of their identification and address, together with full details of any instructions you have provided to them. If you have forwarded or communicated my personal or financial information to any person, company, or organisation, please provide a copy of the authority, signed and dated by myself upon which you have relied prior to doing so. As requested above, you should provide copies on any such communications.

Under the Data Protection Act 1984 / 1998, as a Data Controller, you are responsible for the complete retraction of all information provided to any third party, should I request you to do so, and have a duty to myself to ensure that any personal or financial information I have provided to you is kept securely, and is only communicated to those to whom I have given my express permission / authority.

If you are unable to deal with this request, you should immediately forward it to the person within your organisation responsible for Data Protection. If you do not provide the information requested within the given time limits (final date 3rd March 2007) under current Law, my complaints already registered with the Information Commissioners Office and the Office of Fair Trading, FSA and Financial Ombudsman will be escalated.

I will be filing in the County Court on the morning of 4th March for Non Compliance and damages, if I do not receive the documentation requested by 5pm 3rd March 2007. A post marked envelope bearing the date of 3rd March 2007 does not mean I have received the documentation, unless you have my signature as having received it on the 3rd March 2007.

I have enclosed a copy of my passport and driving license for identification purposes. I have been informed by the Courts I do not have provide identification at all. As far as I am now concerned you are in receipt of all necessary instructions to execute SAR request, and no further correspondence shall be undertaken on this matter.

Might I remind you one County Court Judge is prepared to jail the Data Controller of the Royal Bank of Scotland for not providing information under the Subject Access Request and the stalling tactics used by the Data Controllers to buy time.

.

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance

Yours sincerely

Progenic7

Previous addresses

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The clock is ticking Gavin and you are running out of time boy !