Sighs......

Nope nothing i cant believe they are taking the P*** like this, i thought i would give them the benefit of the doubt, and allow a couple of days over the deadline. I mainly did this so a judge can see i have acted reasonably and not been to forceful.

You will notice a slight change in my actions from this point onwards, as this is the serious bit

Sorry MBNA but as usual you have proved yourself incompetant !

Exemplory damages will be in order i believe

Thanks Bankfodder for your reply

its not often i get to see you post in a thread, ok i hear what you are saying and although i see your point i wondered what would be the circumstances, when as often they do, put the money in the account without prior knowledge and say thats a goodwill gesture and its F and F.

I have seen this happen alot, especially just before the hearing when the claimant is claiming Contractual Interest, of course forcing the claimants hand somewhat as then all they have is the contractual interest caim, clearly this type of action is underhanded, but really where would you stand other than being able to say you only accept that as a partial payment. ?

Mindzai,

Sorry to keep bugging you, but can you clarify this for me mate, on my statement RBS CC i have the following ok.

Balance from previous statement

Payments received

Interest summary (cash)

Interest summary (purchases)

New Balance

Spending on account plus adjustments

Minimum payment.

Im assuming i put the New balance figure and the Balance from previous statement figure in the interest boxes, its just when i do this i get a figure higher than the total interest paid altogether !

any thoughts mate ?

well i posted the Prelim off this morning by recorded delivery of course, cant wait till i can get past the LBA stage and im able to file my N1 with the 16 page PoC attached

posted the letter (Prelim) off today with 14 (amended days) on it, till they get the LBA

Cant wait till i can file my N1 form with the 16 page PoC, im really looking forward to that day, muhahaha

Hi all

is anybody having any problems with the interest paid on penalities bit ?

im especially struggling with the balance paid over from last month bit, but i dont get any actual totals in the end box ie the interest paid box, it just remains blank !

any ideas anyone ?

madmuffet

good luck mate and enjoy the ride

Hi mrxxx

firstly put the cheques in the bank and cash them, after that write a letter back thanking them for their payment which you have gladly cashed and have accepted only as a partial settlement and will continue to pursue them for the rest of the charges.

If they are not happy with this, then they will have to stop the cheque.

After sending the Prelim letter (totally separate to the partial settlement letter) give them 14 days after receipt and then send the LBA (letter befre action) which gives a further 14 days.

At that point if they have not offered the rest then start court proceedings.

Good luck

Just thought i would mention this as it made me smile at the time, i was in the Lincoln county court on friday just gone. I must say i wasnt there because of a claim of my own, unfortunatly i was the defendant

Someone had brought an action against me over a road traffic accident back in 2002, in which we both argued it was the others fault.

Anyways that worked out ok as i won in the end, but what my point is that although it was a morning court appointment, i spent the best part of the day in there.

The judge had 11 cases to sit before me and 7 of them were Bank charge cases, so although i was slightly put out by having to wait all day to go in, i had to smile to myself as it was so ironic

Hi Intercity,

nope all i have had is the acknowledgement of the SAR after a few weeks (and a snotty letter to push them a bit), the SAR ran out on 3.3.07 we are now on day 42

I knew they were going to give me problems on it, i just new it lol

going to wait till i see the post tomorrow then a complaint to the FOS, although they are just as busy as MBNA.

hey ho, atleast i have the moral high ground already, though not hard when against MBNA is it

Johnny

Doo im using it on a live claim RBS credit card

Mindzai if you are around could you explain the box that says "balance paid over next month" im not sure what you mean by that ?

thanks man i will get to work as a beta tester

ok thanks hun, im suscribed to this so i'll keep watching

Paul,

yeah i know i was following your case in the background, i didnt post at the time becasue i wasnt fully aware of all the arguments surrounding such issues, and therefore didnt want to complicate things further by posting misguided information.

I heart went out to you i must say, and like i said i think the judge made a bad call in your case. I feel if you had been better armed maybe things would have been different, but we all live and learn as they say.

You still could appeal against it though, could you not ?

ps i have a lot of good case law on these issues now, so if you wanted any case material just PM me mate.

Callingcard

if i was you i would go over all the charges again, then i would use a decent spread sheet like the one Mindzai has made and is available in his thread. (personally i would go for contractual interest from day one)

Then i would just submit the Prelim letter again, saying that you made an error in working out the fees and heres the amendment and tell them to disregard the previous letter, of said date.

Hi Muggins,

so what have you received up to date ?

all they sent me was copy statements, they didnt even include information on phone calls or letters sent out ect like most of them do.

The info i got from RBS was great, and also online finance, but halifax just the statements and thats it.

I did send a few letters while waiting for them to comply, and made my SAR very strong and very clear, but hey ho

Hi all,

some of you may remember a while ago when i asked what relevance s85 may have on a closed CC account, i have to claims going on at the minute with CC's one with MBNA and one with RBS.

As i gather from this thread (my knowledge lies in other areas) as i havnt researched the relevance of s85 myself im not sure whether or not it could be of assistance to me in my claims.

Like i said i have to CC claims ongoing and i know for a fact that on both cards wheni received a new card i did not receive a copy of the CCA.

So where does that leave me, does it make a difference to my claim ?

is it worth pursuing the matter bearing in mind both accounts are now paid off and closed ?

any thoughts anyone ?

Cant wait im ready and waiting for this evening

Paul

 

I see, so youre saying the fact you acknowledged you were ignorant of the law was the key issue in the bank winning the laches argument?

 

Of course you were there and I wasnt, but that is not how doctrine of lcahes is explained in any of the text i have seen, cases i have read or indeed i dont believe thats what the text you posted says.

 

The funbdemental issue is that the ability to form a prooper defence is somehow blighted by the delay.

 

It presumes you have knowledge of your rights and have ignored them, why would being ignorant of your rights change the position?

 

Glenn

good point Glenn as i understand the doctrine thats exactly the whole point of it. It is only relevant when as you said you are fully aware of your rights and fully aware that the bank is doing something unlawful but for whatever reason you decided not to do anything about it, until a later time.

Clearly the doctrine is not a strong argument because the bank would have to show that you were aware of their wrongdoing as you chose to ignore the fact.

I think in Pauls case he just had a bad judge, bad time, bad place whatever you want to call it, i think he made a very bad call in Pauls case.

Unforunatly thats the law and some you win some you lose, did the judge tell you, you could appeal against that order Paul ?

Hi Golfscape,

i have been following your thread with interest and im really rooting for ya mate

Good luck with any further action that may result in the course of this claim.

FWIW i think it may have been me that was putting the arguments against using the unjust enrichment, but only is as much as the contratual interest goes.

Im not totally ruling the argument out, as i think in general it can be used, having said that i feel that trying to push this argument for the cause of CI claims would be a bad move.

This is mainly because (and the case law backs this up) judges when ruling on an unjust enrichment case will generally only rule that the defence "disgorges" what they had been unjustly enriched with...and nothing more. There is plently of case law that shows this and why the judges are reluctant to award anything above and beyond this.

I think you stand a far better chance using mutuality of contract and or possibly a misrepresentation of fact/statement, as generally a judgement of this nature will also receive some form of compensation for said misrepresentation, ie contractual.

However as Glenn pointed out in another thread you do have to be careful when claiming the defence may have acted fraudulently, not so much for fear of a counterclaim, but that the small claims track is not allowed to deal with any allegation of dishonesty (especially a claim of fraud).

So be careful how you word things and avoid using the word fraud anywhere, as it seems using the word misrepresentation is ok by the judge. It seems a bit of a parodox to me but thats the rules in the small claims court and as i understand it also in the fast track.

Best of luck mate

Lol @ that, i didnt notice the sig

yeah im aware of the tactics and their likely next move and im prepared for that, though ofcourse an offer of anything less than full amount will be declined and without a live account (now closed in anticipation) they cannot do what they normally do and slip the money in the account on the sly.

The only way they can offer payment is to send a cheque, which will ofcourse be returned, and therefore no offer has been acepted and they still have the old chesnut to prove their costs.

I feel it perfectly ligitimate to charge for my time and postage ect, as im chasing a debt due to their own unlawfulness and therefore casue of action is down to them. In the unlikely event they offer to pay before court i may concede on the costs issue, but will certainly pursue it in court.

what are your thoughts on that ?

Dickeggys Hi,

im not wanting to seem a bit pesimistic even though technically your correct, however upon submitting the order for judgement by default, more often than not the defence will then lodge an application for a "set aside of judgement" and even though this is a unfair procedure, unfortunatly the judge more often than not allows it.

The judge will of course way up several points, namely does the defence actually stand a good chance of winning the action and making a good case, and was the reason for being so late a good reason ?

Only the judge can decide this, so dont start celebrating just yet as it is often just another stalling tactic from the other side.

If however the judge discounts the request for a set aside then he will usually award whatever ws asked for in the PoC and may go further to award more costs (if your lucky and at his approval) as sometimes he will deem the defence to have acted unfairly.

To answer your question you have to file an application for a default judgement, and off the top of my head i believe its the N225 Request for Judgement form.

Best of luck

Aside from that, this is wonderful reading......but you've got to ask yourself, at what point will they switch off? (I think) I understand your reasons for doing this - in order to ensure a more beneficial settlement. But if you put yourself in their shoes - up to their eyes in claims, understaffed and churning out generic letters left right and centre are they going to be any more interested in yours because of this letter? Probably not. Possibly even less so. I hope I'm wrong and they sit up and do something about this because you've obviously spent a lot of time and research.

 

Bit of irony for you......

You say in the 2nd paragraph (lmao i hadnt thought of that)

 

Yet you then go on for nearly 20 more paragraphs lol.

 

By the by I suppose - if you feel this is necessary, the it's necessary.

 

I would advise you consider the timescales you have given them given that should your claim go to court, it will show you have not given them a great deal of time to resolve your issue. They are struggling with 28 day turnarounds, let alone 17!! You can see as well from the responses to some people recently a genuine attempt to resolve things.

 

All my opinions and you can obviously take em or throw them. Have attempted to be construtive, not critical

Hi Taff thanks for the advice, i guess as you may have noticed from my SAR and other letter i dont like to follow the crowd and just use a basic template letter, id much rather write my own.

As you say and im sure you are right i think after page one they will switch off, (part of the plan and in the long run beneficial for me...same tactic with PoC upto yet 17 pages long and the defence will buckle under its pressure and probably miss atleast 50 points that need answering in it )

The idea is firstly it makes me feel alot better and secondly to bamboozel them with that many points that need answering they wont possibly pick up on them all, and IMHO i think Cobbetts will do exactly the same, then the judge will hopefully strike out on the basis that the case is hopeless.

Ha still smiling at the cut to the chase bit, dont we all love a bit of irony, actually for further affect i may now put it, in the first paragraph .

Im just hoping that if a judge did see this letter he would realise i had done my research and presented a very well thought out argument and covered all points i felt necessary. Although you havnt seen my letter before action yet

cheers

Johnny

sh1

my advice would be to wait for a while, do your homework and research and when you are confident about it, then proceed with the action. not that i think it will but if indeed it does reach court your going to have to argue the case anyway, and simply to say on the end of it that, i believe that out of mutuality of contract they should pay CI isnt that hard

If you use one of the spread sheets that can be found on this site (the one Mindzai has done is great) they work everything out for you and mkae it real reasy.

Your claim may triple, depending on the times involved

best of luck, and hey dont rush, learn your stuff before you proceed.

Hi muggins,

yeah feel free to PM whenever you like, i have a fair amount of case law and statute to back that argument up (i just dont want it in an open forum right at the minute)

yeah i have just about finished my Prelim drafted and ready, its in all my threads but the best version is this one i think

help yourself http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/59100-progenic-rbs-advanta.html

MINDZAI WHERE ARE YOU ?

I could really use the CC spready right now, i have my prelim written up (7 pages long) and all i need is the charges working out. I would really like to post this on monday..im not bothered if its not 101% accurate 97% will do fine....

man i need your help and quick