so really depends on the judge on the day .

i missed it, as i was looking for what the dvla lady said . how else are you suppose to deliver it then . pigeon ? . if you dont use the postal service . couldnt you just quote this at them ? “Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.”

hi i'm going though the same thing at the moment. i went to court this week and had to put a no guilty plea in ,and i have to go to court again on 5/11/13. they keep saying about "delivering up " the dvla said its stated in the legalisation but i cant find any reference to it . there are a few treads on here to help you . one being mine . hope this helps . and good luck with it .

i would go to court .have no problem with that . its just i have had a bad experience with going to court a few years ago . although it wasnt a magistrates courts just a family court ,but they all have judges i still cant find any reference to "delivering up " as the dvla lady stated was in the legalisation. is she trying to bamboozle me ?

thank you for that. some goods points there. one thing is bugging me . when the dvla lady said about "delivering up". i cant find anything on the legalisation website about it.

thank you for your info. very helpful i'm not that good with paperwork side of things . so learning as i go . one thing does jump out at me . is the acknowledgement letter does state on it that they is no need to respond to this letter . so i wouldnt respond to the letter anyway . either if i got the letter or if i didnt . can i ask what was written in your defence?. i have just tweeted DVLA to find out where i can find the litigation they keep going on about . EDIT** can anyone help me find the legalisation that the DVLA told me about ? i have looked though the legalisation website but cant find where it says to deliver up. this is what the DVLA lady said "DVLA; the wording selling it privately, states explicitly in the legalisation .that you have to deliver up the log book . Now that means not only putting it in the post but your reasonable for making sure the dvla get it .its only then if the dvla got or not , then within four weeks we send you a acknowledgement letter stating you are no longer the reg keeper of the car. If you haven’t done that ,its your duty as registered keeper to chase the dvla ."

right i have got a copy of my neighbours v5 form and nowhere on it does it say " deliver up"

ok. so this is the conversation between myself and the two DVLA ppl. sorry its so long but i was in there for 15 mins . DVLA; before we go into court we have a little chat with each attender, just to explain the offence to you. And to explain your choices for today. And to talk to you about weather you have any defence. ME; ok DVLA;do you understand the offence 1st off ? ME. um yeah DVLA; yeah. So what it is ,that on the 14/2/2013 of this year someone has told us that they have brought the car .previously in your name. They have reg it in their name and as a consequence we have fined you for not telling us you have sold the car . So what is your plan for today guilty or not guilty ? ME; not guilty DVLA; and what defence have you got me love? ME;that I sent the v5 form in when I sold the car in February . DVLA; ok have you got any evidence of that ? ME;no didn’t think you needed any . DVLA; you should wait for the acknowledgement letter . Who did you sell it to dealership or private ? ME; private DVLA; the wording selling it privately states explicitly in the legalisation .that you have to deliver up the log book . Now that means not only putting it in the post but your reasonable for making sure the dvla get it .its only then if the dvla got or not , then within four weeks we send you a acknowledgement letter stating you are no longer the reg keeper of the car. If you haven’t done that ,its your duty as registered keeper to chase the dvla . ME; but i'm not obliged to chase the 4 week letter . DVLA; you are or when you have sold it privately. The wording in the legalisation is deliver up. If you have been told otherwise , its often a symptom of going to forums and they get it wrong there quite a bit . ME; oh ok DVLA; its your responsibility in the legalisation to deliver. When you don’t do that ,when u dont chase it …. ME; i've been driving 18 yrs and this is the 1st time this has happened . You send off the v5 and thats it. DVLA; but its your responsibility for making sure your name gets taken off. To put it differently say al-right . You wouldnt like it if you got done for a speeding fine,so you make sure that your name gets taken off the system as you know someone else is driving it. So you still would be liable . Now before we go into court we always give you a chance to pay the out of court settlement today and adjourn it for one more month to give you time to pay it . Are you interested in doing that today ? ME;no DVLA; you are still going to plead not guilty? ME; yep DVLA;ok that means we will adjourn for trail in one months time . ME; ok. Im self-employed now so all this is costing me money . DVLA; I understand that …... ME; so ...as soon as I send that v5 off .thats it . I have sent it off .i posted it with royal mail . As far as i'm concerned I send the v5 off and you receive it DVLA; unfortunately that isn’t the case . ME; well I sent the v5 off so i'm not pleading guilty DVLA; that does mean will adjourn the trail til the 5th of November is the next date . So the court will send you a letter telling you have to turn up at that time .and that when you actually go to trail . We wont be having the trail today . ME; HUH . Right ok . Why dont we have the trail today ? DVLA; because today you put your plea in . Ok my other colleague is going to have a word with ya . Its at this point I am asked to follow another dvla person into another room DVLA; I understand that you sold the car and posted off your notification ME;yeah DVLA;the legal obligation isnt just to post it . It to make sure it gets there . ME; right ok DVLA; i'll tell you how the legalisation came about . It goes back to the Jill Dando murder, there was a car parked there, that didnt have a keeper registered to it . And that hampered the police in the investigation . So the police and the government sat down and thought how do we make this more water tight .and what they came up with .is whos interest is it to make sure their name comes off the record .so they made the obligation,rather then just to post the information ,to make sure it gets there . Which is why dvla issue a receipt in 28 days if you havent got that as per to the instructions in the registration document . Um you’ll notice dvla hasn’t received what you sent them and its up to you to chase it . To have a successful defence . You dont have to prove you sent them . You have to prove dvla received it . ME; right ok . So in future you send it off recorded . DVLA;yes .then you will know we have received it . Before we got to this stage, dvla offered you a chance to settle it out of court . ME; the only letter I have got from dvla is the letter regarding goin to court. DVLA;one went out before offering you the chance to settle it out of court . By paying a penalty fee. ME; no I havent received anything . This is the 1st time i've heard about this. DVLA;it offered you the chance to settle this out of court ,by paying a litigation fee of £30. ME; but you cant guaranty I received it though . DVLA; thats why i'm going to offer you it now . ME; right ok DVLA; i'm going to re-offer you the chance to settle out of court ,by putting the original litigated penalty of £35 , which is probably going to be your cheapest way round this .if you would like me to do that ? ME; but if I plea not guilty DVLA; if you plea not guilty . Come back to court on the trail date ,you have to prove that dvla received the document … ME; well you have to prove I sent it . DVLA; no I havent .as I said , because the obligation is to deliver the information up . I havent got to prove you sent it . ME; this is stupid dvla are such a big company . They must misplace letters all the the time(DVLA;yeah) . And to charge me for you misplacing a letter is ridiculous. DVLA; according to our records we havent received it .you didnt follow the guidance on the v5 document, in that you didnt chase the dvla when you didnt get the acknowledgement letter within the 28 days , so that where you have gone wrong . Unless you can prove dvla received the document . You likely to lose this . In witch case there will be prosecution costs. ME; i've got a month to figure this out DVLA;in the mean time .i'll give you a slip of paper and you still have the chance to pay that £35 . ME; ok.....whats the £35 for ?. Just admin costs? DVLA; yeah its just a penalty if you like to settle out of court . ME;ok . How many times does this happen ? DVLA; what do you mean ? ME;that somebody sends in a v5 and dvla say we havent received it so we will charge you £35. DVLA; they were lots of these cases that go though.umm yeah there are a lot of cases go though. ME; how many ? DVLA; put in this way ,there is probably 40 in that list today . ME; so 40 times 35 is quite a lot of money for the dvla then ? DVLA;........... ME; to say we havent received a letter DVLA;not as much the £300 if you go to court and you get found guilty .. END

she said today was only for putting my plea in . i'm trying to put the recording up but i'm unable to do it .

well i went to court. the DVLA person took me into a interview room. and asked me if i know why i'm here, my reply was" yes i do know why i'm here,u lost my v5 that i sent to you ".(didnt go down to well with her) they basicly said you can pay £35 out of court or go to court and pay upto £300. i recorded the convo so will try and put it on here . or i will listen to it and try and write the whole conversation. end result was its been put back till the 5th of nov 2013.( basicly a waste of my time )

well off to court in a few hours. think i have everything ready ( just some points i have written down to bring up ). wish me luck . as to be honest . i am crapping myself

yeah i could swear on that very easily. i dont know how much the fine is or will be ,but it says on the letter the max that it could be is £1000 plus 90 quid for costs

only had the car for 7 months. i've been driving since 96 and never had a issue like this .

no , no other vehicles. havent had a car since i sold the one in question .

no dont have any proof of postage. never needed any proof in the past . you just fill it out and send it off and it gets done. this is the 1st time its happened to me . i know i sent the v5 off. the thing i dont get is , the only time i have heard from the dvla is this court letter . also with the letter it has keeper history details. on it it says that the date of acquisition for the new keeper was on 14/02/2013 date of disposal was 10/04/2013. so this must prove they had the v5 form from me to know the new owners details ?

i have to go to Canterbury magistrate court tomorrow at 2pm. so will write on here how it goes.

hi all .. very simple problem i hope. i got a letter from DVLA saying failure to notify change of keeper in sept 2013. i sent dvla a letter stating i did send the v5 form to them but havent heard anything back from them and i am due to go to court on the 1/10/2013 (tomorrow). i have decided to go to court and dispute this in person as i havent heard back from DVLA. is this the right thing to do ? and is there anything i need to know before i go to court ? regards iain edit* more info. i got the letter from DVLA regarding going to court in early sept of this yr(2013). this was news to me as i sold the car in feb(2013). i sold the car to a private buyer in feb and sent the v5 form off the next day . since then i havent heard anything from DVLA ,not even a tax reminder form . untill this letter turned up saying i have to go to court . as soon as i got this letter i rung the DVLA and they just said send it in a letter . so i did . i saw the letter snooplotty wrote on here and i edited it and sent it off. but i havent heard anything back and i have to go to court tomorrow . i dont mind going to court ,as i know i sent it off ,also i sent my driving licence off at the same time for change off addy, but i havent had that back yet . the letter from DVLA reminded me of my licence . i forgot about it due to not having a car .

hi all .. i got a letter from DVLA saying failure to notify change of keeper in sept 2013. i sent dvla a letter stating i did send the v5 form to them but havent heard anything back from them and i am due to go to court on the 1/10/2013 (tomorrow). i have decided to go to court and dispute this in person as i havent heard back from DVLA. is this the right thing to do ? and is there anything i need to know before i go to court ? regards iain

hi all .. i got a letter from DVLA saying failure to notify change of keeper in sept 2013. i sent dvla a letter stating i did send the v5 form to them but havent heard anything back from them and i am due to go to court on the 1/10/2013 (tomorrow). i have decided to go to court and dispute this in person as i havent heard back from DVLA. is this the right thing to do ? and is there anything i need to know before i go to court ? regards iain