So, I have decided, for better or worse, to send them a letter. I appreciate all of your input thus far and I am just taking a slightly (in my eyes) safer route by sending them a letter stating why I am not going to pay the charge they have levied against me and why. I have not mentioned the word "appeal" anywhere and I have not stated who was driving the car or whether I agree with the contravention they are charging me for. I believe that they haven't adhered to the letter of the law and definitely not to the BPA Code of Practice. If nothing else, this will provide me (and therefore you) with an interesting response. I'm not usually the type of person to stand up to anyone so ignoring them in the old fashioned sense would be too hard for me. I don't think I should post the letter or details of it here, I hope that's the right thing to do. But, if it comes to it, I will look further into whether they are allowed to imitate the council's red lines and whether it was really them who put them there (I suspect not, despite my earlier phone call).

I have spoken to One Stop Shopping Centre (where the ticket was issued) and they have confirmed that: > They own the land, so it is private land. > They put down the red lines. So what do I do now? Defence Systems is registered with POPLA and it does state this on their letter. The letter says that if I wish to appeal: "If you believe that the charge should not be paid and wish to challenge this PCN, please write to.... All correspondence must include your name, address, reference number and vehicle registration. You must supply evidence as to why you were in violation of the terms and conditions as displayed on the contractual warning signs erected on the land. etc. etc. If the appeal is unsuccessful you will be provided with the contact details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA) and a unique appeal reference. " I am not going to argue that the vehicle was not in violation of the terms but I would like to argue that they lost exactly zero revenue from my parking there and that the red lines were in terrible condition and the warning signs are tiny! (The big, red signs are for entering the bus lane, which the vehicle didn't do).

Thank you everyone. This whole situation is made slightly difficult because I am out of the country for the next few days but I will pursue it further when I'm back. I will check with the council if this is still a red route and, if so, if Defence Systems are working on their behalf. I have already emailed but will probably need to call. If the red route is still applicable but Defence Systems are not working for the council (which is what I suspect is the case) then am I correct in thinking that the parking charge notice is invalid as Defence Systems have no signs of their own and are basically piggybacking the council's system?

Yep, that's where it is. Although that argos has been a Wetherspoons for quite a few years now so it's an old picture - the lines have all faded quite significantly (if that makes any difference)

It is a Parking Charge. I think this means that I am dealing with a private company and not somebody appointed by the council?

I don't believe that the company is employed by the council as there is no mention of it on the letter or on their website. Birmingham City Council's website states that people who park on a red route may be issued with a "Penalty Charge Notice" but I have been issued with a "Parking Charge". I've tried to ring the council's red route information phone number to see if they a) employ Defence Systems and b) still have this particular place as a red route despite the faded lines. Sadly, the phone number isn't recognised.

Hi All, I have received a parking charge from Defence Systems for "Stopping in a No Stopping Area" at One Stop Shopping Centre in Perry Barr, Birmingham. I parked in front of incredibly faded double red lines, alongside other vehicles for about 30 seconds back in April and a PCN was issued on 19th August. There is a sign that states "Red Route, No Stopping at Any Time". My main questions are: Can a private company charge me for stopping on a red route? (I was under the impression that would be a council thing) Does the fact that the red lines are incredibly faded count for anything? Any thing I can do with the fact that it took them 4 months to send me a letter? If anybody needs more detail please ask. Thanks in advance for any advice.