Totally agree re: the "super computer!" . But when staff are dragged away continually on courses , sometimes on a weekly basis and are absent from the workplace . Leaving their depts short staffed then the NHS heirachy are wasting money . I would love nothing more than to give you perfect examples of the area in which I am talking about , but sadly the NHS region I am mainly discussing have a little office , with little people in it . Who are employed to spy on NHS staff on the internet . So for me to divulge information could in fact put friends & family jobs at risk . And as for some kid who's just fell out of college to then become a Mentor within the NHS , a Mentor to someone a lot older , with a lot more experience on the job , but without the mentorship degree (laughable calling it a degree when its a short course ) is verging on the insanity . Pay off the management penpushers who invent the papertrail , and youl'l have a better NHS

Aaaannnnd the mentorship course is now compulsory You asked for proof now you have it

Their are in fact Solicitors who deal in just medical negligence . Especially the NHS !!!.

A number of your statements are incoherent and have been substantially rebutted , but you still choose to ignore defending them . You seem to be getting yourself very confused by it all . Seems to be a case of stick the blinkers on and hope he forgets , and continue to argue the toss for the sake of it . You keep prattling on about me providing documentation on a public forum , or did you have other ideas ? , like buying me a drink in a cosy pub ? , scotlands nice this time of year Sorry Zippy gonna have to agree to disagree with ya , but till you start making sense , and stop hijacking others post and stick to your own . Dont call me , I'II call you

Zippy , you criticised my initial post , so I answered you back . And you chose to ignore my answers . Now I find you trying to knitpick with more quotes on a post I did answering someone else . Why is that ? , arguing for the sake of arguing by hijacking someone elses post ?. You openly admit the NHS is broke , but not broke . Explain progress by breaking the NHS !! , doesn't make any sense . Seems to be a lot of backpatting going on here , I wonder why

Somebody else who assumes far too much . Tankgirl not once did I ever suggest a golden age , but the NHS did work a helluva lot better when its budget wasn't tampered with , or it was used as a political battleground . Or even a piece of paper to say you could be a mentor . Explain your attitude , and professional understanding regarding naive & misinformed support . "Successive politicos have kicked the NHS & its staff around as a bargaining tool to curry favour with the electorate " As even though I have been saying from day one that the NHS is in fact broke , I find myself reading your first & last post finding you making the same assumption , so even though you would like to come across as someone who disagrees with me , you in fact agree , but in a roundabout way with a lot of fluff . Naive & misinformed cos it does not conform to your own point of view ?. You see my attitude is that the NHS has been broken a long time , due to politicians & penpushers , but since the internet people are more informed , and more educated .Which gives them a strong viewpoint when it comes to the NHS . Meaning the wool cant be pulled over their eyes by the endless wrangling & verbal diarrhoea politicians are so well known for . All my opinions are in fact simply just that ....... fact !!! , from people who have worked within the NHS for decades , who now wish to get out . Who feel patient care is suffering , who love the whole concept of the NHS , love caring for people , but dont care for the masses of paperwork & targets set by politicians . Rumours I leave to the old fishwives . And on a final note , when I see friends & family coming home in tears due to the endless rubbish they have to contend with working within the NHS , then I'd say I have plenty of experience .

Thankyou Mr Worried , glad to see somebody gets it without the bitching

Well so far I've been accused of slagging off nurses , even though I stated I have a lot of friends & family who work as medical staff .So why I would slag them off is beyond me . I think they do a wonderful job . No overtime , long hours , too much paperwork & and the abuse they get from patients can be serious . Patient care is seriously being ignored for targets . As a surgeon friend of mine stated . "Clerical not medical , thats why I got out !". Then I was challenged on several occasions to supply NHS documentation , even though those people knew I couldnt being I am not NHS staff . I thought to myself , what next ?............ attack my grammar ?. Surely not , who would stoop so low to be so desperate as to do that 1.You are correct champers re : school nurses not being resident at schools for some time , but you forget a very important point I was trying to make . When they were resident at schools , the system worked . It obviously does not now ,when school nurses have little or no time to attend schools to do medicals , HPV etc . As their intray resembles a post office sorting office . 2.Compulsory as of sept 2011 it will be , I did not say it was now . 3.It was a surgery , so when making assumptions , make sure you are asking and not criticising . Makes your post more credible . And I meant county . 4.I'II ignore the grammar insult . I've learnt over the years when people stoop so low , its in desperation . 5. Explain a "recent older nurse !". Recently got older ?, quite older ? , or just quite recent ?. So please instead of trying to find faults , and making a poor job of it with your paranoia . Understand that this is a consumer forum where normal taxpaying people like myself , and others . Are justified in having an opinion on "our" NHS .

Slagging off nurses ?!! You seem to be overly defensive and paranoid . Why would I slag off nurses when I know so many as friends & family . When I,m actually defending them . Management in fact I am not , and as far as I am aware do not resemble the frontline nurse , surgeon or doctor . Or is it a simple case your putting words into my mouth to justify your own arguments ?. And if you check my post you quoted you would see you did in fact quote me .In fact if you kept it simple and stopped confusing yourself with a quote spam you'd be able to keep up with what your saying Let me give you a single example . School nurse is employed to be exactly what it says on the tin . In the past school nurses were resident at the school to deal with hpv immunisations , medicals , child protection issues etc . Now they are based miles away , and cover at least 6 different schools . .......................Cutbacks !! 75% of the school nurses job now is to participate on courses (mentorship , solihull , or even fire awareness courses ) . Inhouse paperwork & the ever time consuming eksf . This is resulting in head teachers almost begging the school nurse to attend , and the school nurse having to refuse as they government targets to adhere to re : paperwork . Let me give you another example of the NHS wisdom . Nurse see's a patient in the process of having a stroke , administers aspirin and starts to use ecg . Nurse also calls for a bluelight to get patient to hospital asap . Management hear of this after the patients life is saved , and reprimand nurse for using ecg as she was not trained in the county she currently resides , but she had nearly 30 years service in other counties using the ecg . These are just 2 small examples of how patient care has deteriorated . Shall I continue slaggin off nurse so you can get your spam quotes in ?

Whilst I would love to waste my life away arguing with someone who is management at the end of the day , the fact still remains the old NHS worked . The new NHS is vastly short staffed , and its budget is wasted year on out on unnecessary paperwork . When a nurse , doctor etc is taken away from their respective job to cover the piles of paperwork on their desk for days on end , or courses that are unnecessary , then the patient obviously suffers . You maybe the new face of the NHS , and love paperwork , and verbal diarrhoea personally , but those that put the patient first dont support you . This is a consumer forum , and as you well know being a consumer means I have a right to an opinion being a taxpayer whether you like it or not , and being a non member of the NHS I will not put my friends and family at risk by uncovering documents on here . And as you well know , or live in ignorance , the NHS employs staff to investigate its members using the internet . And thats fact !! Or maybe you didnt know that , seeing as your career is short . And just because I do not work for the NHS , does it mean I am clueless ?, or is it your overly protective seeing as your management ?. I dont apologise for hurting your feelings , next time you wish to respond to a post as someone wanted to voice an opinion on a consumer forum , and rightly so . Make less assumptions and engage brain first I know a helluva lot more than you think zippy , and trust me when l say this ,september the mentorship degree is compulsory . It takes many years of knowledge , experience and common sense to mentor someone . Not a 3month course . Just in case you wish to sign up now Zippy before your model NHS crumbles around you , you can sign the petition on 38degrees

Maybe your both management ?. I dont work for the NHS , but I have quite a lot of friends & family with over 100 years service in the NHS . One is even a retired surgeon , who decided to retire early rather than stay any longer . Nightowl you quoted me regarding Mentorship degree's , but forgot to answer . Why is that ?. Also staff are not given management time to deal with appraisals , unless of course you mean the unpaid work they also have to do at home after they finish their shifts ?. So you agree 6 months for a simple disciplinary is acceptable in this day and age ?. I've worked in almost every sector imaginable , including the forces . And never in my long career have I seen anything so antiquated and mismanaged . In fact I've yet to meet a happy NHS member of staff with more than 10 years service . And it is indeed fact staff are forced on courses as they are compulsory , including the mentorship course . September will be proof enough of this crazy paper pushing course in mentorship .You mention a certain amount of qualified staff to provide mentorship to student nurses . If you had read my post you wouldve learned I stated this course is & will be compulsory to "every" nurse , and its currently being taught to students as we speak in the school of nursing . I doubt a student has enough experience or knowledge to comprehend on what being a mentor recquires . Just remember your SWAT Analysis zippy when your sick of hearing it On a final note you surmise far too much . The phrase clerical not medical actually came from a surgeon of 40 years service , and a ward sister of 27 years service . You both seem very defensive and far too critical . I question your reasons .

Bureaucracy !! , or in laymans terms verbal diarrhoea !!. Staff within the nhs are forced onto courses that have no relevance in the normal work place . For instance . 1. Eksf Appraisals : Before you are appraised by your respective manager , you are recquired to go online , onto something called the eksf website which the NHS pay for through a private company . And staff are recquired to spend hours writing at least 500 words per evidence of which their are ten . Also recquired is objectives , this can run into several days work , taking them away from the jobs they are recquired to do . 2. Mentorship Degree's : This is a classic this one . Currently trainee nurses and some handpicked nurses whether they have 20plus years within the NHS or just out of school are recquired to do a degree in mentorship . By September 2011 it will be compulsory for every nurse to do this degree . Now being ex forces I was always lead to believe mentors were hand chosen for their knowledge & experience . And it was something that could not be taught , but no . The penpushers in the NHS in their infinite wisdom has decided that every nurse throughout the country recquires to be taught how to be a mentor . Aint that what Ward Sisters used to be , Mentors ?. Now millions of the NHS budget is to be wasted on this course . Taking nurses away from their patients to study 3. Spine Removal for Management within the NHS : Disciplinaries can take as long as they want , whenever they want . No matter how small the issue or how large , 6 months or even longer can be the case . This is due to Management not wishing or wanting to take a decision or knowing the proper procedures and blaming Human Resources . Who in turn blame the management . This is of course outwith employment laws set up by the UK government , but the NHS is exempt .... 4. Paperwork is taking up so much time within the NHS that the majority of staff no longer class themselves as medical , but more clerical , This is from experience and not hearsay , and every year we hear that the NHS is short of cash . Least they wont be short on toilet paper !!!