UKDomains
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Just a quick query: NIP states being charged under Road Traffic Act. Does it help that the sign I think they are referring to, only appears in office rail regulations?
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I plan on asking for solicitor for S2
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Can anyone recall what the term is when there is a large cluster of road signs all in one place, possibly causing distraction and confusion? I counted a total of 11 signs all within about 40 yards of the crossing
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They verbally confirmed they are dropping everything except S36. I have requested this in writing. Would a new NIP not have to be issued if they drop the charge about driving in front of train, and the other offences?
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I've been asked to come in for a formal interview tomorrow. The PC explained that this would help my case when they refer it to CPS as it would contain more info than what the original NIP would if they only sent that. Any tips/suggestions?
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Well I've decided that I'm going to refuse the caution today, and hope that either CPS decide not to go further, or I will have to get a lawyer if it goes to court.
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And I've confirmed on the UK Border Agency website that any police caution will result in refusal of citizenship application for 3 years.
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*sigh* I just don't know what to do. I just feel that in my situation the punishment does not fit the crime. I'm just devastated
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Thank you for all the time spent on looking into this. some comments from what you have posted: 1. What is your key objective?. your immigration status?? YES. 2. The sign you posted was not the sign in question. The sign at the gate, which is obscured when driving towards gate, but unfortunately plainly visible when you get out of your car and approach gate to open can be found on this page: https://www.translink.co.uk/Documents/Services/NI%20Railways/User%20Worked%20Crossings%20WEB.pdf Page 11, right hand sign. Interestingly, bottom of sign states maximum penalty £1000. I could always argue that a caution is more of a penalty to me having citizenship refused based on caution. The fly in the ointment? : As identified earlier by sailor sam, the Highway Code. https://www.gov.uk/road-works-level-...ngs-291-to-299 Within '297' ;If there is a railway telephone, always use it to contact the signal operator to make sure it is safe to cross. " YES, you are correct here. I had however read it to mean: 294 Railway telephones. If you are driving a large or slow- moving vehicle, a long, low vehicle with a risk of grounding, or herding animals, a train could arrive before you are clear of the crossing. You MUST obey any sign instructing you to use the railway telephone to obtain permission to cross. You MUST also telephone when clear of the crossing if requested to do so. Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 16(1) I have attempted to get advice from CAB, who were unable to help, and gave me some telephone numbers of lawyers, who all wanted money before speaking to me.
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Well, I had my chat with the BT police this morning at Norwich Train station. I showed them all the signs involved, showed them the relevant bits in the "know your roadsigns" taken from the directgov website, and argued that I did not break any road traffic act regulations, as nowhere does it state motor vehicles HAVE to phone, and indeed the sign does say HEAVY vehicles need to phone. The PC listened to what I had to say, then basically said "OK, I need to go through this form with you so we can get the story properly, and I need you to sign here..." When I basically told him I'm not in a position to accept a caution over this at the moment. He looked totally bewildered and went to speak to his Sgt, who then came to speak to me. He maintains that yes, the road traffic act does not state that I MUST phone to find out about trains coming, but that according to the Office of Rail regulations, ALL vehicles need to phone when crossing user and that I should be familiar with this law as well as a road user. He then went on to say that he has no option, that I either need to accept the caution, or he would then be forced to hand it over to the Magistrate's Court. The reasons I gave them for not accepting the caution: a. I believe the signage and law to be ambiguous. b. I'm going to be applying for my Citizenship shortly and there is a prerequisite in the application that the "applicant be a member of Good Standing" I'm fairly certain that with a caution on my record it would perhaps show I'm not of good standing and might influence my citizenship application. He basically then said he advises I get legal advice and to contact them within 24 hours to let them know if I'm accepting the caution, which means I would need to go back to see them, or if I'm refusing the caution, which means they'll forward it on to the Magistrate's Court. He also confirmed driver wrote down my car reg number after he had passed my car.
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After a few days of thinking, I've decided I'm going to refuse to accept the caution. I still believe that I was in the right and that the signage is confusing. I'm also wondering why the first part of the alleged offense was dropped, namely the crossing in front of the train causing train to brake. Obviously they questioned the driver again and got the correct answer. I'm going to print out the following to show the Bt police who wants to see me: http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_191955.pdf Page 28 shows the exact same sign that says park here and use phone...it states: Place where drivers of large or slow vehicles should park near a level crossing while contacting the signal operator. I'm going to argue that this first sign I saw in the following photo (bottom sign) [ATTACH=CONFIG]51020[/ATTACH] Does anyone have any suggestions how to go about this? What is likely to happen if I refuse the caution? Questions I would like to ask the BT police: 1. Why did you drop the first part of the alleged offense. 2. how did you record my car reg number. Any other questions anyone can think of?
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They did not say. He just said it would show on my police record as a caution, but no one would know about it, not even employer etc. He also just said that I would be given a caution for driving through the crossing without using the phone. I didn't admit anything, just agreed to see him at the BT police station next week.
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Hi All, I have not updated this for a while as I heard nothing since I sent the NIP back to BT Police until tonight. Received a phone call from the PC investigating and he said on reviewing my reply I sent them and speaking to the driver of the train, they are dropping the alleged offense of crossing in front of the train (which I did not do), but they are prepared to offer me a police caution for not using the phone before crossing. This will have to involve me going to the BT station, and admitting that I crossed without using the phone, and then I will receive a police caution and would not need to go to court. Can anyone please explain to me what this would involve, what implications this would mean to me, etc. I have never had anything remotely like this happen to me previously. I still contend that I was confused by the signage, so did not do it on purpose.
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Just an update to this thread. It has been over three weeks now since I sent the above back in, and have not heard anything yet. Will update when I do.
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Hi all, apologies for my absence, I had to go away for work for a while. Thank you for all the comments. I have taken the NIP and edited it and attached. Looks all normal to my uneducated eye. The whole thing was that I was CONFUSED by the signs, taking them to mean heavy vehicles need to phone. I wasn't being lazy and not phoning, I genuinely thought the signs meant for large vehicles. So with me being away, I need to get the NIP back to them by the 11th. The attached scan is of Part A. There is another sheet with part B, Part C and Part D where I can explain myself. Now looking at the alleged offences, they state 2 incidences: Driver of vehicle failed to inform and the 2nd one, vehicle crossed tracks in front of train causing train to brake. In my part D I propose to say the following: "Due to the nature and location of the various signs it led me to believe that all heavy vehicles should stop and phone for permission. The signage is very ambiguous and not immediately clear as to the correct course of action. In the second part of the alleged offense, it is stated that the vehicle crossed in front of the train, causing it to brake. This is in fact incorrect. On seeing the train approach, I waited for the train to pass me and on visual inspection I then determined the track was clear to cross. A short distance away from the crossing the train came to a complete stop, before I had even crossed the tracks. I propose that the train was in fact in the process of slowing down before it passed the crossing as it was coming up to a red light which is a short distance away from the crossing." Any suggestions/comments? What I'm curious about is how did they get my reg no.?
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I didn't know this. I tried to see if there was any CCTV cameras around, but didn't see any. Also no telltale signs warning of CCTV. I presumed the train driver took my reg number as he drove past me.
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NIP arrived yesterday via signed for post. I'll see if I can scan it up tonight if anyone is interested. They have given me space for an explanation.
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Most often pet insurance companies will reconsider once the vet has written a letter. IF you have not renewed your policy in between the visit of 2013 and now. This could be then argued as a predisposed condition. Well done on speaking to your vet though, most of them will write a thorough letter detailing why it should be paid for. Also, don't feed your cat too much salmon A well balanced cat food is preferable
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Hi Sailor Sam, thank you for your comments. To be honest, I had never seen one of these crossings before and did not know I had to phone, I had thought the sign was for large vehicles. But I know ignorance is not a defence. I do however have a problem with what the NIP apparently states: Driver of vehicle failed to contact signaller as directed by signage at location before using crossing. - YES,guilty. Vehicle crossed tracks in front of oncoming train causing driver of train to brake. - FALSE. I crossed behind the train, AFTER it had stopped for the red signal light. But I'll have to wait to see what instructions the NIP gives. when it arrives, can I post it on here for comment?
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This is the sign I saw that I thought it meant large vehicles phone at crossing, which I see everyday on the road. This is about 50 yards from the crossing, around a small bend. [ATTACH=CONFIG]49095[/ATTACH]
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And finally, this is about the angle I was nosing my car forward and saw the train approaching: [ATTACH=CONFIG]49094[/ATTACH]
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Ok. I've been back and taken photos of the area. I can see why I was confused. I think in my opinion these signs were very misleading, having pictures of lorries getting stuck right by the sign saying you must phone. Also, sign obscured a lot from when in the car approaching the stopping area to get out and open the gate. Level Crossing: [ATTACH=CONFIG]49089[/ATTACH] View from car: [ATTACH=CONFIG]49090[/ATTACH] View of sign from car when parked so gate can open: [ATTACH=CONFIG]49091[/ATTACH] Confusing signs? [ATTACH=CONFIG]49092[/ATTACH] The train passed me and then stopped near the grey box on the left. The signal light showing was red at the time as well, which made me think train was stopping for the red signal light: [ATTACH=CONFIG]49093[/ATTACH]
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Yes, it is that location, except I came from other direction, which Google Maps doesn't cover street level.
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Hi, yes I was planning on posting photos here once I've taken them. this is the location of the eve crossing http://www.abcrailwayguide.co.uk/heath-farm-level-crossing-3298
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Hopefully this is the correct forum, didn't know if it should go here or in the train section. I just got the following email from my work regarding the company car I drive: Background info about crossing: You drive down a small lane to the level crossing, which has white wooden farm style gates across that you have to open the one side, walk across the tracks, open the other side gates, walk back, get in car, drive through both sets of wooden gates, get out, walk over tracks, close far side gate, walk back over tracks, close near side gate, get back in car and drive off. On said date and about that time, I did this. I did not see any signage saying I need to phone anybody. After opening all the gates, I started driving towards going over the track, slowly nosing forward until I could see a train approaching, so I then rolled back into the road again (rolled slowly, not drove as train was far off). Train passed me at about 30-40mph with horn blaring (I assumed as warning he was approaching) and stopped about 100 yards further down the track, with what looked like a red signal light ahead of him in the distance. So now the NIP states I caused the train to brake by crossing the track. How? I crossed the track behind the train. At no time did my car cross the track infront of the train. Also, do not recall the signage, so I'm off in a few hours to take photo's of the crossing, as area is rather overgrown with bushes. Any advice further what to do when I receive the NIP?
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