Hi all I think sometimes whatever the legal position is Solicitors often get removed from the actual "Day to day" reality of the process. You can have ALL the Bailiff's on the ENTIRE PLANET attend but if there isn't anything collectable that is even remotely worth a fraction of the debt you are trying to collect it's POINTLESS. I'll bet that in 99% of households in the UK at the moment you could put the ENTIRE contents of a house up for auction and it's unlikely to realize more than a few HUNDRED QUID. Second hand stuff has very little resale value these days. Jewellery, paintings and vehicles excepted which are usually removed long before trouble arises anyway. In any case Bailiff's CAN'T take tools that are needed for a trade, certain types of furniture etc and the default debtor will certainly have removed such possible items of value as jewellery, paintings and vehicles long before a Bailiff is involved. So please SOLS GET REAL. Some debts unfortunately JUST CAN'T BE COLLECTED whatever the legal process has to say. This is why these people get away with 100,000's of pounds while the likes of the ordinary people who have problems on smallish amounts of Council Tax or credit Card debt get the most horrendous treatment and extortionate collection charges thrown at them since these debts are usually "more collectable". Cheers jimbo

Hi there After a few attempts the debt will be returned to the Council as "Nullo Bono" anyway. Even the stupid Bailiff companies will realize that they are just wasting their time and will move on to their next victim who unfortuantely hasn't heard of CAG and doesn't know their rights. Note however the Council CAN charge you for the two Bailiff Visits allowed (only 2 doesn't matter how many times they actually attempt to call either) . This is around 40 GBP for the two visits allowed by law These fees are laid down in Law unlike "Van Fees" waiting time etc etc.-- but DO NOT PAY THIS TO THE BAILIFF COMPANY -- only to the council if they add it to your bill. If they want you to pay this direct to the Bailiff company just tell them to "Foxtrot Oscar". You CAN pay it to the council. The first step in any Debt situation is for YOU to be in control -- not dependent on somebody else pulling the strings. Once you know your rights its easier to deal with as you can say THIS is what I have and this is what I'M prepared to pay -- if you don't like it we'll let a Court referee the issue and usually in these cases so long as you can offer something the Courts are quite reasonable. Never let a DCA / Bank etc dictate how much you have to pay. Stay in control and it becomes so much easier. Many many people have got into debt etc because of all sorts of reasons including changed marital circumstances, jobs offshored to India so unemployment, deaths, illness or even just plain inexperience with handling money loaned by irresponsible lenders. It doesn't make people BAD -- it's a normal occurrence and the popularity of sites like CAG just show how many ordinary people have problems. What is BAD is the horrendous and disgusting methods employed by the various Banks and Debt Collection agencies --this is what needs serious regulating --big time. Cheers jimbo

Hi there Blackhorse is better known as LLOYDS / TSB's LOAN SHARKING DIVISION --excessive interest and charges. Make sure you claim EVERY PENNY back for PPI etc. It's also amazing how a loan can grow so quickly from 8,000 to 13,000 GBP. Why is it ALWAYS those who can least afford it are hit with these really excessive and exhorbitant costs and Interest Charges. Cheers jimbo

Hi there I believe that in the case of Bank accounts that INTEREST CAN be added after the account has been terminated. The only way interest can be stopped stone dead is if a Charging order is made -- then Interest is frozen. I think CCJ's can also carry interest until they are cleared or converted into Charging Orders. I hope I'm wrong but it's quite hard to get Interest payments stopped by using the law. You *might* be able to get the Bank / credit card company / DCA to stop interest payments if you can make a decent case out of the fact that you have very little money and the debt will NEVER be paid off iff interest is continually being added especially if it's at a high rate. This will be at the discretion of who is chasing you for money and we all know how evil and disgusting this whole industry is. Logic might appeal to them however -- 7% of X for example is better than 0% of Y even if Y is many times bigger than X. There's no hard and fast rule on this one --it probably depends on which muppet opens your mail requesting suspension of Interest. Cheers jimbo

Hi there you DO NOT have to pay the Bailiff. Just tell the Council you are paying THEM and that's the END OF IT. If they don't accept payment KEEP their reply and wait to see if it goes to Court -- You will get a REALLY EASY RIDE in Court if it goes that far. Insist that you are ONLY PAYING THE COUNCIL AND NOBODY ELSE. The only fees you can get charged for in addition to the Council Tax Liability order is for the Bailiff's first and 2nd visit fees which together won't add up to more than around 40 quid. DO NOT PAY VAN / WAITING TIME / LEVY FEES - especially if you haven't let these slime into your home. In the 21st century using a 12th century mechanism for collecting tax is NOT ON -- we don't need thugs and strong arm tactics to enforce tax collection. Report the Bailiff's and their company to the OFT, the Court where the Bailiff is certified, Companies House for incorrect operation of a business and to such bodies like the BBC and SKY NEWS. Baliff's certainly can't threaten to change locks and have Police in attendance WITHOUT A COURT WARRANT which I'm 99.9999% sure they haven't got --- most council tax issues are raised via a Liability Order which when not paid is simply handed over to a Bailiff. A further Court hearing is required for a "Warrant of Execution" before these Bottom Feeders can break in etc etc -- and this takes a LONG time to do. Report the Council also to the Local Govt Ombudsman -- unlike a lot of bodies this one actually has teeth. The Council will have to reply to them and state what they are doing to ensure their agents (The Bailiff company --somebody like Rossendales) don't behave like this again. Added -- if these **** are threatening to come on Friday -- a common day for Dustbin Collection ensure you don't leave any doors unlocked while you are putting your bin out into the street. These ODIOUS people have been known to use this trick to gain admittance --while you are wheeling the Bin into the Street they sneak in via the open door. Cheers jimbo

Hi there So long as you haven't let them in you are OK -- NEVER NEVER EVER EVER pay a Bailiff for Council Tax arrears -- these Bailiff's have ZERO right of entry into your home and Rossendales are one of the worst lot. PLEASE REPORT THIS BALIFF COMPANY AS THE POLICE CERTAINLY WILL NOT BE IN ATTENDANCE WITH BAILIFF'S FOR COUNCIL TAX ARREARS . The ONLY exception to this is if there is a High / other Court Warrant for execution and I doubt if your case has got anywhere near that stage yet. The Baliffs certainly are NOT ALLOWED TO INTIMIDATE people with false threats etc. The company doing this should be STRUCK OFF IMMEDIATELY. Don't speak to them even through the letterbox. If they won't go away you can call the police --- ensure Windows and doors are locked as they CAN come in so long as they don't force their way in. Incidentally though hide any vehicle as some of the nastier vesrions of these Pond Slime and Bottom Feeders will sieze -- illegally - vehicles to levy on them. Now try and come to some arrangement with the Council --they by LAW have to take Council Tax. If they refuse to accept it then go to Court again when the demand comes in probably a year later and explain you have tried to pay the Council but they aren't interested. A Court will give you a FAR FAR better deal than any Bailiff company. Most councils have some type of online payment mechanism so use that if you can't come to a direct arrangement with the council. Ignore all their threatograms about Statutatory demands, Bankruptcy orders etc etc. It will have to go to a Court first and if you've attempted to pay something via say the online system and the Council has refused the Court will actually be on your side-- chances are it won't go anywhere near a Court since the Law on Bailiff rights is very explicit in the case of Council Tax arrears -- They have NONE. Incidentally if you really have zero income check the Benefits --you might be able to claim some --and certainly look at the rules for Council Tax relief -- you could be entitled to this too. While you are applying for this collections will be suspended. Cheers jimbo

Hi there although you are on "The other side of the fence" here (most Caggers need advice on dealing with DCA's / paying off debts , stopping repossessions etc.) you've discovered that there is a HUGE difference in GETTING a court judgement and actually having it ENFORCED. Unless the 3rd party has tangible assets you are really wasting your time and money. If there is property involved you could go for a charging order but even here it could take YEARS to get any money back. The only realistic thing you can do is to ensure the debtors credit reference is marked accordingly so they won't be able to get credit in the future or if they are a company director get the company shut down and have them barred from being company directors again for the forseeable future. Even if you try and make them Bankrupt it will cost YOU money and if there aren't enough seizable assets this is a waste of time as well -- it will just become a "Lawyers Fest" with you paying the Bill. Using Bailiff's for smallish debts will probably cost you more than you'll get back anyway-- what does a typical household have these days that is of decent resale value -- the 2nd hand value at auction of even the latest large scale LCD TV isn't worth anything decent -- the whole idea of Bailiff's for debt collection has really passed its sell by date in most cases these days. I'd put this down to a painful learning experience as you are unlikely ever to be able to get anything decent back from this debt. cheers jimbo

Hi there please post details of the Bailiff company as well -- it's time we got people like Rossendales and their ilk SHUT DOWN FOR GOOD. Cheers jimbo

Hi there Surely there are 2 things wrong with this 1) Even if you DO sign it's STILL against the LAW. The LAW trumps everything else so they STILL have no right to deliver to 3rd parties even if you agree to it. For example I could take a "Hit Contract" using an Albanian colleague against a really NASTY DCA Solicitor. Now this Contract in no way is valid in Law even if I "Sign" an agreement. 2) A contract forced "Under Duress" is not in English Law enforceable. Cheers jimbo

Hi there If its for a Mobile Phone Bill I'd just tell Lewis to Foxtrot Oscar. It won't go to court. Getting an SAR in this case seems to be a bit of overkill since this will cost you 40 quid in the first place and it might *legitimize* the debt. If you really want to pay these lowlifes something just offer your Full and Final with the provisor that it IS a full and final and all references in the credit files ARE REMOVED. If Lewis don't play ball just as I said in the start of this post tell them to Foxtrot Oscar (or "make a Sexual move with a Duck") if you get my meaning. Cheers jimbo

Hi all I thought one of the main provisions of the act - in fact the reason why the act was conceived in the first place - was to ensure that NO PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL DATA is passed to third parties. If say CAGGER A contacts me for data about CAGGER B and assuming I had it I would be breaking the law if I passed this information on. It's the same say if you previously worked say at BP and another firm rings up and wants information --the only information they are allowed to pass on is stuff that's in the public domain such as Candidate XXXX worked here from date1 to date2. I'm not sure HOW these "Tittle Tattle" companies such as experian are allowed to pass on to 3rd parties private data such as credit card details etc etc. After all I can't go into a Bank and get the current account details for another Customer --or at least I hope I can't without a Court Order. These agencies most DEFINITELY should be shut down. Cheers jimbo

Hi there Thanks -- I was worried that they could say the overdraft was technically part of the Mortgage. What I'm going to do is pay another 3K into the Mortgage to bring it down to 12K (that's around 15 months payments in one go so there shouldn't be any more payments for another year or so -- I'll have a NICE PENSION by then anyway-- ) and wait and see what happens. If it goes to court over the amount of overdfraft they need paying back in one go then I'm sure I'll probably get some sort of decent deal from the Court -- the Bank will probably sell off the debt to a DCA anyway who can probably be dealt with. From what I've seen Courts are on the whole reasonable if you can attempt some sort of repayments --they usually won't enforce ludicrous TOTAL repayment terms in one go. I'm not trying NOT to pay but I was really worried on getting tossed out of a home for an overdraft. Offset Mortgages were a strange type of Mortgage which is why I got confused about the whole issue. Cheers and thanks to all jimbo

Hi there 1) First Don't mention ANY reasons as to why you can't pay the debt in full -- don't mention special circumstances etc etc --these will only come back and bite you later. 2) Anything to do with Bailiff's as far as a DCA is concerned is usually just threatograms -- unless there is an official Warrant of Execution which has to be issued by a Court you DO NOT EVER EVER have to let these scumbags into your home or deal with them in any way whatsoever --hide all vehicles however. There's lots of posts on the Bailiff section of the forum under Council Tax demands so you can get an idea of your rights dealing with these real dastardly ****. 3) If you DON'T own property the DCA can't issue a charging order so they really don't have any serious enforcement powers even for a CCJ. The DCA is unlikely to go to Court as you could probably get a Court to agree to something like paying 1 GBP a month. The LEWIS group are a really NASTY outfit who buys debts for PENNIES in the pound and then try and get the WHOLE LOT back. This business model has passed its sell by date now -- One of the companies in their group CATTLES has thankfully already gone out of business. 4) If you want to make a Full and final settlement just say I can offer XXXX -- of course also insist that your offer is accepted as a FULL and FINAL settlement in writing so the other part can't be sold on to yet another piece of pondslime. I'd start at say 10% and you'll probably get an agreement from them after two or three refusals of around 17 %. 5) If they insist on saying NO just say OK I can't pay so TAKE ME TO COURT. You'll always get a better deal from a Court than from these lowlifes. I wouldn't worry about Credit Ratings - since you've got into debt it's a good time to attempt to totally do WITHOUT credit -- not so difficult and you'll have much more money at the end of each month too. If you DON'T have money or property there is TOTALLY NOTHING the DCA can do. Now if you DO own property they will go for a charging order --actually these days that isn't such a horror as it used to be since Interest is STOPPED stone dead especially for ANY debt under 5,000 GBP whether its consumer credit or otherwise, and for relatively small amounts there is ZERO possibility of them getting a forced sale. You are perversly in a better barganing position than before since you can say I'm not moving for 30 years by which time your debt will be worthless so how about a Full and Final settlement --then make your offer --suggest start at 10%. It's time this DISGUSTING practice of selling on debts was either stopped or becomes not profitable. Nobody would be sorry to see people like CL Lewis / Lewis group / Cohen Solicitors go out of business. Cheers jimbo

Hi there the repayments on the Mortgage part of this are around 212 GBP a month -- this would mean that even 8 Months arrears would only amount to around 1600 GBP which I could pay in any case on my current contract. I'm totally fazed why I'm getting stung for all this which are by any standards whatsoever are trivially small amounts of money compared with the equity in the property --around 220,000 GBP. I've seen people with arrears etc of more than my whole OUTSTANDING Mortgage not been subjected to the same sort of hassle -- especially calling in an overdraft on a current account. The Banks of course know that its IMPOSSIBLE to pay off the whole lot in one go so I'm waiting to see what the next step is. I'm not scared of going to Court -- but it seems that if you are self employed the odds are stacked against you since Banks and Judges seem to like definite 9-5 type of Salary earners rather than people who can say pay 3 or 4,000 GBP and then nothing for say a year or more. That's the nature of my work currently -- especially being out of the UK while I'm on contract. Cheers jimbo

Hi there there is around 15 K on the Mortgage Current account -- just within the overdraft limit and around the same outstanding on the actual mortgage but no arrears on this account. So total owing to the Bank is around 30 K . I don't actually have too much trouble making payments currently but certainly can't pay off a 15 K piece in one go. The Termination notice came out of the blue on Dec 22 -- what a lovely XMAS present -- seems these banks deliberately do this stuff to cause MAXIMIUM stress. There have been irregular payments on the account since I am now self employed and money arrives at HUGELY differing times and amounts. However any arrears on the Mortgage have always been paid off in FULL. I explained this to the Bank but they can't seem to understand peopl whose income doesn't fit typical 9-5 type jobs. I'll explain again to the Woolwich and see what happens next. I did manage to speak to a HORRENDOUSLY unsympathetic person in the collections deptl at a previous time when I was in arrears when I explained that I was self employed -- he said this wasn't the case when you took out the Mortgage -- true but the whole employment scenario etc has changed HUGELY since I took the mortgage out. It doesn't say on the agreement you have to notify them of change of employment as far as I can see either. Cheers jimbo

Hi there Ell_enn Got a strange one but a bit worrying from The Woolwich. I've been self employed so payments are a bit irregular -- however the Mortgage part is NOT in arrears. I got a nice XMAS present from The Woolwich saying that my Mortgage Current account had been TERMINATED and the Bank want FULL and IMMEDIATE payment of the amount on this account (around 15,000GBP). Of course I can't pay this up front. Now if the actual Mortgage is not in arrears what do I need to do so I don't technically lose the house. I know my payment history has been somewhat erratic -- I've had arrears of up to 3,500 GBP at times but it's ALWAYS been paid -- self employment goes like that especially in these times where it's often "Feast or Famine". My current Mortgage amount outstanding is around 15,000 GBP ( Note NOT arrears --this is the total amount of the Mortgage excluding the current account outstanding) which I can service OK. The property is probably worth around 250,000 GBP with no amounts on it other than the mortgage.What do I need to do next. There is NO way on this planet I can suddenly find around 15,000 for the Mortgage current account although I could offer instalments. The original mortgage was an "Offset" Mortgage. Honestly I thought Banks were meant to help people these days -- demanding 15,000 GBP up front a few days before XMAS without warning doesn't seem to me to be a de"cent way of enabling a fair solution to be arrived at in trhese days where you have to take work where and when you can get it. Thanks in advance jimbo

Hi there -- I'm not a Solicitor but even a Dummy like me understands that if a COURT says XYZ these really VILE and WRETCHED DCA's can't say ABC without going back to court and asking for a change --which they won't get if you've been paying what was agreed. If these companies who now realize its a FAILED business model in buying debts for pennies in the pound and then try and collect the ORIGINAL amount were to operate with a bit more sensitivity etc --ESPECIALLY at this time of the year when they ALL seem to be emerging from the woodwork they might actually MAKE some money. Their sheer GREED coombined with sites like CAG which now gives consumers information as to their rights etc ensures that a lot of DCA's now walk away with NOTHING or a very small amount -- and using the Court system as an instrument of FEAR just doesn't work any more . In 999 times out of a 1000 these days if it DOES go to a court the debtor will get a MUCH better arrangement than the DCA will want. Cheers jimbo

Hi all Some of the more OBNOXIOUS DCA's such as CAPQUEST are LUXEMBOURG / other off shore institutions. CAPQUEST has S.A.R.L in its incorporation data which means a LUXEMBOURG operation. I would especially in 2011 in co-operation with all our European Colleagues in attempting to prevent Cross Europe Money Laundering and TAX evasion send a copy of ALL PAYMENTS made to this organisation to the Inland revenue service with a note saying being a Concerned citizen you are doing your bit to stop Tax evasion by some of our Financial Sector companies. If CAPQUEST don't send you a proper statement of account as well after payments received then report them to Companies House as well for failing to operate Company Accounts correctly. A receipt for a payment isn't good enough -- it must have the current state of the account after the payment has been processed. I think we should HARRY these VILE and ODIOUS companies EVERY WAY WE CAN within the law even if they operate outside it. I've been revolted but hardly surprised at the really significant increase in activity by all these VERMIN at this time of the year --just calculated to induce maximum Stress for everybody concerned. Cheers jimbo

Hi there Another DESPICABLE part of the whole debt collection industry -- SARL means a LUXEMBOURG based operation -- no UK tax with the directors pocketing ZILLIONS and not paying a penny in UK taxes. Apart from anything else report them to Companies House and the Inland Revenue if you get stung by these a**holes -- if you pay themANYTHING make sure at least its recorded in their tax returns. S.A.R.L means normally a Luxembourg based operation such as CAPQUEST against whom most caggers have good reasons to see if they can be shut down too. Cheers jimbo

Hi there in addition to all the Excellent advice on thes Forums I would also just post a blank envelope with NO STAMP on it back to them with a UNSIGNED simple Foxtrot Oscar message. If everybody sent back unpaid envelopes back to these sleazebags the whole process would rapidly grind to a halt. Remember when dealing with DCA's YOU have to take control -- most of them have NO POWERS whatsoever regardless of what they say. A few like CAPQUEST and RESTONS need slightly different handling but you will find help on these boards for dealing with them too. 99% of the time you can ignore threatograms etc from a typical DCA. cheers jimbo

Hi all Maybe OT and slightly against Forum Rules but I would like to ask how any decent Solicitor could go into Court with a straight face and really ask that a family gets evicted from their home --especially for relatively small amounts of debt (Charging Orders on Credit cards for example). In a small number of cases feckless and reckless spending might deserve this outcome but these sort of people ALWAYS seem to get away with it. A lot of people feel really hurt -- the Banks got bailed out with TRILLIONS (not Billions) of pounds of taxpayers money while families who have got into debt through no fault of their own such as redundancy, jobs being offshored to India or the Phillipines etc are now losing their homes due to really sleazebag lawyers going for the juggular and the same Banks who have been bailed out already by the taxpayer wanting to re-establish their HUGE profit margins again. If you ARE a SOL working for one of these despiccable organisations please post your reactions when you've just tossed a family out on to the street. The Albanian fixer solution seems to me a great idea although not really legal -- it might make a few SOLS wary however of taking up this DESPICCABLE practise and hopefully make a few DCA's wary too. Cheers jimbo

Hi all Ell-enn is a STAR in all this sort of stuff --thanks a million -- but I do believe there is case law around to say that any charges cannot be added to the ARREARS although adding to the outstanding amount of the mortgage is another matter which IS allowed. So if you arrears are say 3,000 GBP --and they want to charge you 300 GBP "Late fees" -- the "late fees" cannot be added to the arrears amount and if the arrears are paid or a suitable arrangement is in place then repossession will stop. Remember FEES CANNOT be added to the arrears but only to the outstanding principal. Cheers jimbo

Hi all Ell-enn is a STAR in all this sort of stuff --thanks a million -- but I do believe there is case law around to say that any charges cannot be added to the ARREARS although adding to the outstanding amount of the mortgage is another matter which IS allowed. So if you arrears are say 3,000 GBP --and they want to charge you 300 GBP "Late fees" -- the "late fees" cannot be added to the arrears amount and if the arrears are paid or a suitable arrangement is in place then repossession will stop. Remember FEES CANNOT be added to the arrears but only to the outstanding principal. Cheers jimbo

Hi all It's incredibly amazing how many old debts seem to come out of the woodwork at this time of the year --just shows what a whole VILE, STINKING and CONTEMPTUOUS industry this is. They KNOW that people will in any case have more expenses at this time of the year whatever their circumstances --so it's obviously designed to cause maximum stress etc etc. Even a Pea sized brain --which is usually much larger than their threat monkeys on the phones have as a GROUP-- would tell them that paying a third party DCA a sizeable chunk of money just before XMAS just ISN'T going to happen whatever the circumstances. They are just trying their luck or making a last scramble to obtain a free XMAS bonus. Let them stew in their own juices until after XMAS. With Post and Courts not operating fully over the holiday period there isn't anything they COULD do even if they wanted to. Cheers jimbo

Hi all I think we all know what a VILE and STINKING industry the whole debt collection process is -- not only the companies that exploit people who for one reason or another usually OUTSIDE their control have got into difficult circumstances, but also the work force of these companies and their wretched Solicitors as well. Now they are realising that buying "Non Perfoming debts" as they say in the jargon for pennies in the pound isn't such a good business model any more they have obviously been looking for yet ever more insidious ways to extort money from their hapless victims. Recently the most popular way of terryifyng people was by going for Charging Orders on property -- this appeared to DCA's to be a superb instrument of guaranteeing their money -- however they BADLY miscalculated on this one. There has rightly been great indignation in this process wherby an UNSECURED DEBT can become a SECURED one without there EVER being the slightest mention of this fact on any Credit agreement -- and it seems also totally LUDICROUS that people can be threatened by 3rd parties forcing a Sale of their home for what is usually a tiny debt in relation to the value of the property -- and in other cases there could be negative equity too so not an effective weapon any more. Courts will almost NEVER force a sale for Credit card debt. This means the DCA will be stuck with an INTEREST FREE non performing debt dwindling every year via inflation etc until the home owner decides to sell. Greed as you see brings its own downfall. Had they left a typical CCJ running they could at least collect interest until such times as the judgement was discharged. A more insidious track which some DCA's are turning to (Capquest is the expert at this) is in issuing an SD and then a threat of Bankruptcy. Now this is a MUCH harder issue to defend against and you don't have to be a home owner either. I suspect 2011 will see a HUGE number of SD's issued as the Charging Order becomes relatively ineffective at speedy debt collection. Hopefully CAGGERS will have the means to defend against these too. So I hope to all DCA's everywhere -- A TRUELY HORRIBLE NEW YEAR AND MAY YOU ALL GO OUT OF BUSINESS QUICKLY. Your demise won't be mourned or regretted at all. To any Caggers who have charging orders still on their properties --this might be a good time to ask for a decent Full and Final settlement -- star by offering around 10 - 15 % -- some companies WILL take this rather than waiting YEARS --could be 30 or morre before the home owner sells up by which time the debt will have dwindled to ZERO via inflation etc etc. Note also you CAN'T be issued an SD for the same debt that a charging order exists on -- beware this is another underhand tactic that an aggressive DCA might try and trap the unwary with. Cheers jimbo