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Hi Guys, Has not the time now come to implement a new strategy for business claimants. We now have to accept that the penalty argument for most business claimants is finished. The penalty avenue still remains slightly open for some RBS/Natwest business customers, and in the absence of any appeal by RBS/Natwest shouldn't claimants who were charged between 2001-2003 be applying to have their complaints heard and their stays lifted? So isn't it now the time to return to court and have our individual business claims heard by a judge. Afterall the judge hearing the test case did not, as far as I know, look at a single business contract or consider the banks' business terms and conditions, this was simply not the Court's remit. The penalty argument in relation to consumers and consumer contracts certainly was covered but not business account holders. Any thoughts? TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, Anyone know what this is all about. It seems that this company won't use the County Court and instead use a 'Statutory Demand', what is this and should anyone with a debt be concerned? Credit Resource Consultancy TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, Does anybody know what on earth is going on with Royal Bank of Scotland's/NatWest's penalty ruling against them. This was massive news and if they aren't going to appeal then surely stays can be lifted as far as charges applied between 2001-2003, surely this can now be dealt with by the Court in light of an absence of the bank appealing. For business claimants of RBS/NatWest this is extrmely important. I have scoured the net and other sources and can find nothing, does anybody know what is going on? TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, Does anybody know what on earth is going on with Royal Bank of Scotland's/Natwest's penalty ruling against them. This was massive news and if they aren't going to appeal then surely stays can be lifted as far as charges applied between 2001-2003, surely this can now be dealt with by the Court in light of an absence of the bank appealing. For business claimants of RBS/Natwest this is extrmely important. I have scoured the net and other sources and can find nothing, does anybody know what is going on? TheyrCriminals

Hi Car2403, Sorry was this directed at me? TheyrCriminals

Hi car2403, Would that be a viable avenue? Perhaps more of a political impetus to examine the issue, I have already spoken to one MP who is semi-interested and I will be speaking to another MP presently. Any other ideas? TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, I want an official investigation into the banks' unauthorised overdraft charging policy. I am not talking about whether these charges are lawful or not as we all know there is a test case going through the Courts to determine that issue. I believe there should be a separate investigation into the impact these charges have had on peoples everyday lives and the resulting quality of life. I want an investigation to examine: (i) why such a perverse charging policy was introduced in the first place (ii) how it could have continued for such a long time without being challenged by a government department/regulator/agency (iii) to uncover the full extent to which these charges have impacted on individuals/families lives and (iv) to uncover the full extent to which these charges have ruined small businesses. Can someone tell me which government body/department/agency/regulator may have the power to do this? Cheers, TheyrCriminals

Hi Thailand, If anyone else knows could they put up a post, Thailand and I would be very grateful. Cheers, TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, Sorry to ask again but do we know yet if the Royal Bank of Scotland plc (NatWest owners) are appealing the judgment of Mr. Justice Andrew Smith in that the 2001 term could be penal? It's been a while since the judgement came through and it seems to have gone quiet on this. TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, Do we know yet if the Royal Bank of Scotland plc (Natwest owners) are appealing the judgment of Mr. Justice Andrew Smith in that the 2001 term could be penal? It's been a while since the judgement came through and it seems to have gone quiet on this. TheyrCriminals

Hi Again, Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!! Even though the banks have not been given leave to appeal they are going to appeal directly to the House of Lords! BBC NEWS | Business | Bank charges appeal is thrown out Unbelievable! TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, BANKS LOSE APPEAL AND MASTER OF THE ROLLS SAYS THEY CAN NOT APPEAL TO THE HOUSE OF LORDS. BBC NEWS | Business | Bank charges appeal is thrown out TheyrCriminals

Hi guys, Is this true that the appeal hearing judgement in the test case will be handed down this Thursday? TheyrCriminals

Hi Photoman, Thank you very much for that detailed post, I am very grateful to you. I will look it over again and get back to you. TheyrCriminals

Hi Photoman, Really stuck on this one. I checked out your links, thanks for that. I understand that I may be able to obtain statements going back further than 6 years under Civil Procedure rules (which is what we're trying to do for a Natwest business account). But I don't see how this will work, even if it is for an intended action, if Natwest simply turn round and say to the court their systems do not keep records for statements longer than 6 years. What can I do? TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, Im sorry if this is the wrong place to put this. I have been paying off a parking ticket I received by giving Plymouth City Council £5 per month. Two days ago I telephoned the payment line to make another £5 payment this is how the conversation went. Automated Voice (AV): The full amount you owe is £95. To make a payment press 1. I pressed 1. AV: Please type in the long number across your debit card followed by the hash key. I did this. AV: Now type the expiry date followed by the hash key. I did this. AV: Now turn over your card and type in the 3 digit security number. I did this. AV: Thank you please wait while we process your transaction. I hung up immediately feeling sick. They had taken the whole payment of £95. Never once was I asked how much I wanted to pay and not once was I asked to confirm how much I wanted to pay. Is this legal? I am a full-time student. I have to pay my own tuition fess (not because my parents are rich I must add), I receive no grant and the bank will not give me a student account so I can have an overdraft. All I have is my student loan and some money from part-time work to survive on, I am living on a pittance and the Council has taken £95 of my last £136. Is there anything I can do to get a refund? Surely I should have been given the chance of knowing how much I wanted to pay, I did not authorise at all £95 I only wanted to pay £5, this is just not right. Any help greatly appreciated. TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, Can someone please tell me how I go about making a data subject access request in order to obtain the video/audio footage of me in a Natwest branch last month? I understand under the Data Protection Act 1998 I am entitled to this footage on paying the DPA fee of £10. Thanks. TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, Sorry if I have put this in the wrong place but I really could do with some help. I have been paying off a parking ticket by paying £5 a month, it is not how the Council wanted me to pay but it is the only way I can afford it. Yesterday I telephoned to pay another £5 off the ticket, this is how the automated conversation went: Automated Voice (AV): The full amount owed on this parking ticket is £95. To make a payment press 1. I pressed one. AV: Now please enter the long number across the debit card followed by the hash key. I did this. AV: Now please enter the expiry date followed by the hash key. I did this. AV: Now please turn over your card and type in the three digit security number. I did this. AV: Please wait while your transaction is processed. I immediately hung up with a sick feeling in my stomach. I only wanted to pay £5 and the ba####s took the whole lot of £95! Never once was I asked to enter the amount I wanted to pay and neither was I asked to confirm how much I wanted to pay. This is sickening. I am a student living on a pittance. I have to pay my own tuition fees (not because my parents are rich that's for sure - I am classed as an independent student anyway), I get no grant and all I have is the student loan and a bit of part-time work. Surely I should have been asked how much I wanted to pay? Is this an unlawful means of taking money off you? Is there any way I can get the remaining £90 back???!!!! TheyrCriminals

Hi Choco, I know it is a frustrating business all this but stay with it, even though it may take more time many believe, indeed as does Marc Gander believe, that the final outcome will be in favour of the consumer, although one can not say this for definite. Let me try to explain the legal arguments for you. Ever since bank charge reclaiming began there have been two legal avenues for claimants to pursue. One is that these charges amounted to a penalty and therefore under common law (not statute) these charges would have been legally unenforceable so you could have claimed a refund. With the exception of Royal Bank of Scotland plc (owners of Natwest) the judge has found in favour of the banks on this point. As the OFT does not want to appeal on this point these charges therefore are not unenforceable penalties, so that particular legal avenue, for most, has been closed. The second legal argument which only consumers can rely on is that these charges are unfair within the meaning of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 or UTCCR's. These regulations were introduced to ensure more fairness for contracting parties. The judge found against the banks on this point back in April last year which meant the charges could be assess by the OFT for fairness. If there had been no appeal this would have meant the OFT reducing the charges to a more fairer level. However the banks were allowed to appeal. The appeal hearing concluded at the beginning of November last year and the judgement is still awaited. I don't think anyone really knows when the judgement will come through but I for one am waiting eagerly for it, to say the least, as Im sure millions of other people are. Try not to be too disheartened and remember if you have put in a court claim there is a little bit of compensation for the wait - an increase in your statutory interest, which in actual fact for some is quite a lot of money. Hope this has helped, TheyrCriminals

Hi Mr. Lex, Thanks for the above post, very helpful. TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, Don't really know where to begin with this one. I have a friend who has written to HSBC requesting his claim be considered for financial hardship under Annex 2 of the FSA revised guidelines, he ecnlosed proof of his financial situation. He was sent income/expenditure forms to complete which he returned two and a half months ago but hasn't heard anything back from them since. What is the best way forward for him. Thanks. TheyrCriminals

Michael, Good luck and good for you. Let us know how it goes. TheyrCriminals

Just to clarify I wasn't saying the banks were not taking people's wages I was merely stating that I will never be able to accept this type of twisted business mentality. As I also stated I believe that if your entire wages are taken in unauthorised overdraft charges then this should be a criminal offence. TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, Thank you for the above posts. I am pleased that despite desperate times CAG seems to have helped you a lot and as angel 1 rightly says debt is not worth committing suicide over. A quick note to Hilaryfrances - I can not fathom, and never will be able to fathom, the perversity of a bank taking your entire salary in bank charges this should almost be a criminal offence in my opinion. TheyrCriminals