Hi Banker ryhmes with, Thanks very much for that, very helpful. TheyrCriminals

Hi Martin, We're just about to make a request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a copy of the original agreement and original terms and conditions for the Natwest business account we discussed earlier. However I have just realised does the Consumer Credit Act cover business customers? TheyrCriminals

Informed Searcher, Yes of course they may be able to appeal to the European Court of Justice most of us all know this remains a possibility. I was asking whether it is likely that the judgement in the House of Lords appeal will be delivered in autumn? TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, Thanks for the update yourbank. So is it fair to say we are looking at an Autumn judgement? TheyrCriminals

Thanks for this Martin. TheyrCriminals

Hi Martin, I have looke dup S.77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and it covers copies of the original agreement but nothing about terms and conditions. Firstly does this Act cover bank accounts where no credit has been offered and the account is operated purely on the basis of paying money in only. And secondly does the Act provide for the original terms and conditions to be supplied, not just the original agreement? TheyrCriminals

Hi Guidot, Sorry just re-read your post, got it now!! TheyrCriminals

Hi Guidot, Where did you get this information. I can't see it on the OFT website, its probably me, can you post up a link please? Cheers, TheyrCriminals

Hi Martin, Can you please post a link where I will find a template for a letter to Natwest making a formal request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 asking the bank for the original terms and conditions and the original agreement at the time the account was opened? Or is there not one? TheyrCriminals

Hi Martin, Thanks for the reply and thanks also to the above posts, they have been very informative and useful. TheyrCriminals

Hi Martin, Would it be possible to make a request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 requesting the original agreement, the original terms and conditions and also the terms and conditions as they were updated over the years? TheyrCriminals

Hi Photoman, Thanks for that. Is the request under CPR 31 made to the Court on Application? Or is it made to Natwest directly? TheyrCriminals

Hi Martin, Is there a template for this formal request? TheyrCriminals

Hi, Do we have any legal cases yet where the stay has been lifted or the claim settled since Smith's RBS/Natwest penalty ruling? Also how can my friends get a copy of the terms and conditions that the pre-2001 charges would have been governed by. TheyrCriminals

Hi Martin, I have asked them how they are prcoeeding and they have not yet added the pre-2001 charges to the claim, but they were gong to do do it by amending their PoC. However I think what you are saying is that that is not the best way to proceed and the pre-2001 charges should be submitted to court as a separate claim, is this right? TheyrCriminals

Hi Martin, Many thanks for your reply. I see totally where you are coming from with your argument, it makes alot of sense. The charges they are claiming between 2001-2003 total around £3500 (without statutory interest). They have a further load of charges amounting to £5,000 from 2004-2007. In addition they tried to get statements going back pre-2001 as they have paid numerous charges then as well but Natwest said they dont have the records going back that far. However they have since dug out their own statements for that period and the additonal charges pre-2001 total around £2,600 (without interest). TheyrCriminals

Hi Photoman and Martin, Thankyou very much to both of you for the detailed responses above. If Natwest are keen to get the stay lifted could I tell my friends to ask Cobbets if their client is prepared to settle out of court? TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, Listen to this. My friends were so frustrated with the little development that has been made for RBS/Natwest business claimants since the gold dust penalty ruling that they contacted Cobbets (solicitors for Natwest). Cobbets e-mailed them later and said they believe business accounts fall outside the scope of the OFT test case and that their client will not oppose any application to have the stay lifted. However my friends have been down this road before, even getting a Draft Consent Order signed with Cobbets, applying to have the stay lifted but the Designated Civil Judge for Devon and Cornwall would not allow the stay to be lifted back then. What do you think Cobbets are up to? Any thoughts welcome. TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, Can anyone help with this query. Two of my friends are going through a divorce at the current time. They commenced a claim for the recovery of their bank charges on a joint account. I am assuming as their is joint liability then any payouts would be to both of them too. However obviously when the divorce comes through they wont be Mr. and Mrs. anymore so would the bank, if the time comes, pay any refund half and half to each of them equally? Thanks. TheyrCriminals

Hi, Ah sorry I think you mean the banks were entitled to appeal as they argued successfully that the judge in the High Court and the three Appeal Court judges misinterpreted the law on the UTCCR. How do you know this? TheyrCriminals

Hi, How do you know this and which point of law was being appealed? TheyrCriminals

Hi, The OFT's investigation into bank charges began in April 2007. We are now in April 2009, they have already had two years to 'investigate' this matter. It does not take this amount of time. A public enquiry would take less time than this. The latest response from the OFT and their new 'streamlined investigation' is to continue delaying until the outcome of the House of Lords appeal is known. It is the most ridiculous situation, the OFT cant do or enforce anything regarding unauthorised overdraft charges until the final outcome in the Commercial Court litigation is known. Yes they will continue the longest ever running investigation into a financial product they may even reach a conclusion this year (that would be nice) but they will not be able to do anything. They are trailing behind the test case and will have to continue to do so. So what has the OFT done in two years? They have issued a prelimary report - welldone OFT you're really effective. They have been investigating all of the banks for two years but today we are told that they now intend to just focus on three banks, excuse me for pointing out the obvious but what's wrong with looking at all of the banks terms and conditions and conduct, afterall they have been doing this for TWO YEARS!!! So again I ask what the hell is going on? TheyrCriminals P.S Does anyone know yet on what grounds the banks were given the right to appeal to the House of Lords?

I was referring to written submissions in a hearing that may or may not have taken place, because something sure had to come before the Law Lords' eyes to grant the banks their new appeal. TheyrCriminals

This is an excellent post and deserves commendation. The matters you raise Bookworm are highly important but yet none of us can find an answer. How unjust is this? You are absolutely right Bookworm you can not just appeal a decision on the grounds you simply don't like the deicision, there has to be genuine grounds for an appeal. As far as I can see a hearing has taken place at some stage, it may well be a hearing based on written submissions, and in that hearing the Law Lords have concluded that the banks do have grounds for a further appeal. When, where and how that hearing was conducted is anyone's guess!!!! Does anybody know what the hell is going on? TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys, Anyone seen this? It looks as though the House of Lords have already decided that the banks can have another appeal, that was very quick!!!! So the litigation continues, appeal hearing probably expected in late summer/early autumn. BBC NEWS | Business | Banks will appeal on charges case TheyrCriminals