God bless you citizenB. I'd put all this behind me for the past 4 years and got on with my life. CAG is still here, selflessly helping people. Donation on its way!

Hi Did you give them a deadline to reply by? If they don’t reply with a valid CCA in that time then send them an account in dispute letter (in the letter templates library). Whilst the account is in dispute they (nor their DCA) can’t pursue you for the debt (if they try there’s a letter for that too in the library).

Dear Caggers The last time I had anything to do with AMEX was in 2009,when in response to a CCA request (for a debt dating back to the early 90s) they sent me an application form with the Prescribed Terms in a separate T&Cs document. I replied setting them straight in their error (sig and prescribed terms in four corners of document etc) and left it that they should no longer pursue me as they cannot prove the debit. They appeared to have taken this advice until last week when I received a letter from AMEX telling me that the account had now been closed, payment in full is due immediately, and that they are referring the debt to a DCA! I assume that they had hoped that if they left it 4 years, that I might forget their CCA failure, or that I might not have the original letter, envelopes and recorded delivery receipts. Wrong! So, do I just ignore them, or do I remind them that the account has been in dispute since 2009. Should I complain to the OFT that they’re harassing me? Cheers MSR

Ok it looks like I may have found the disappointing answer (see attached). So it seems that I can instruct a company to patrol Sainsbury’s car park, sign a contractor saying that I'm authorised (though I'm not) and they can go clamping and not be accountable. ‘Sorry M’Lud, but the claimant signed a contract saying he was authorised to appoint us to clamp on the Pal Mal’. Nice. Also, as it happens, my lease says that I am allowed to use the car park, so they've interfered with my right under my lease.

Dear All I live in a block of flats (leasehold) with private parking. Some of the tenants decided to employ a clamping company to manage the car park. They did this without permission from the freeholder. I was twice clamped and had to pay £225 for release. It transpires that not only did the freeholder not give permission for a clamping company to be employed (as they were never asked), but that they have never given permission for the space to be used as a car park in the first place. So, my question, given that it is over a year since I was fined, can I write to the clamping company and ask for my money back on the basis that they never had a legal right to patrol the site as they had not been given the freeholders permission? Regards MSR

So, in short, you can send a CCA request, get some unenforceable document in response, jump through a whole bunch of hoops in court and in the end they can forge your signature on a copy of an enforceable agreement and you can't forensically proove it. Looks like game over for the 'uneforceable CCA due to lack of prescibed terms' argument. Bum.

Well it's a learning curve and CAG is our university. Take control over the DCA's, they're powerless puppets, they can't take legal action against you (only the creditor can do that), all they can do is try and scare you by assuming that you are ignorant (which you're not) and barking at you. I think Eversheds are actually the least offensive of the lot judging by what I've read on these forums. More power to you shafted. MSR

Umm this is interesting, would you mind elucidating a little further on this?

If you increase the offer until they bite you may find that they bite at 100%. I think you have to play harder. Remind them that the CCA if unenforceable, state that under the circumstances the f&f offer was generous, withdraw the offer and cease with the monthly payments if you haven’t yet done so. Actually, on that last part, bear in mind that they can default you for non payment. Default is not a nice place to be. On the upside if they’ve defaulted you already then it’s game on.

My thinking was that the DCA would need to refer to their client for acceptance of F&F (unless they were given discretion to make that decision), and they are generally foul to deal with, so I thought it would be better to deal direct. Still, it's all the same in the end, personally I'd rather deal with the organ grinder than the rude, ill-educated arse scratching monkey.

Never give them this info or they’ll use it as a stick to batter you. Keep them in the dark. Their MO is 1) Get as much info about you as possible 2) Get you pay as much as possible 3) Use 1 to achieve 2. I got that from a post on this site about life working in a DCA. I got the same forms to fill out and return from Eversheds and it’s nonsense, I ignored it an used a template from this site instead. I particularly liked that they suggest you tell them how much your car costs, but don’t include petrol, Idiots. Plus the notion that they can't accept an offer of repayment without proof of income is drivel. If you offered them £200 a month on a £2000 debt they'd bite your hand off regardless whether or not you sent them POI. MSR

My approach Billy is to refuse to have anything to do with the DCA’s. I ignore their letters and their phone calls, I only deal directly with AMEX. If the account is in dispute the DCA’s shouldn’t be contacting you anyway.

Dear Caggers No doubt all of you who are challenging unenforceable CCA’s on the basis of prescribed terms missing from the signed document, have received from AMEX a copy of T&C’s on a separate document and an argument that this forms part of the agreement. How are you arguing against this and what success are you having? Also, have any of you been taken to or threatened with court by AMEX over non enforceable CCA’s? I know some of you have been to court with AMEX for faulty DN’s, but what about CCA’s? Cheers ManSizedRooster

It was Full and Final. It was at the time when there were rumours that AMEX was struggling. I didn’t have the money to accept the offer so I missed out. What’s your angle for F&F, unenforceable CCA? Who's the DCA ?

Hi It was an offer from AMEX but not on the basis of a CCA request or anything, it was just out of the blue. That was on a £4000 debt. MSR