Egg PAPLOC Now Claimform Loan - DLC final straits / SETTLED

[e_inspired]

Hi All,

 

It’s a long story but I will summarise, I need help to write something to court to get Egg - DLC request for an extension denied:

1. Egg started court proceedings against me for a loan

2. Egg POC stated an agreement that does not exist, never has (dodo's)

 3. CCA/SAR Egg – did not get agreement stated in POC as expected

 4. Looked a default notice I had received for loan mentioned in (2) even that was faulty and most important of all should never have been reported to CRA's

 5. Court granted stay for us to work things out – wrote to the egg letting them know about my discovery and I even stupidly outlined my whole defence... I didn’t get a reply.

6. Applied for summary judgement – attended court with the egg solicitor ( 1st time in court was scared but loved it in a strange sort of way )

7. Judge gave order that they amend claim and POC to reflect correct agreement and gave them up till yesterday 12/09/2007 to file and serve new claim

8. Got letter today from DLC dated 12/09/2007:

“We have just been passed a copy of the Order dated 29th August 2007 made in xxxx.

Due to the deadline to serve an amended claim we will obviously have to instruct or solicitors to apply for an extension of time to comply with the order.

In the meantime we would suggest that both parties try to reach a settlement to avoid the need for further protracted Court action. As you are aware the Courts do encourage parties to converse with each other and we will notify them if we are able to reach an amicable arrangement.

Should you wish to speak to us (although we note you would prefer written contact) my direct line is xxxx.

in their rush to ruin me they messed up BIG TIME.

As I said above I need help writing a letter to the court so they are NOT given an extension they have had loads of time to correct the claim for any debt that may have existed, they are playing silly buggers. Any advice as to my next steps would be appreciated also any details on how I can claim costs etc if they abandon the case etc.

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[e_inspired]

Ok,

the good news is that I managed to crack the egg..

now I want to smash the egg,

the kind judge decided to strike out the eggs case

after 2 application notices by me to get it struck out.

the muppets couldn't comply with a simple and I mean simple order like file the claim with the right agreement number (duh) maybe they couldn't do that because they were already in breach of contract with any other agreement I may have had with them.

Even though it never really went to trial, I would like to say that I think the DEFAULT NOTICE is very very important and if its issued wrongly as in my case they got the agreement no. wrong and the muppets start legal action based on this, then they are in repudiatory breach of contract.

I recommend that people read up on default notices and also repudiatory breach in contract law.

I would like to thank pt2537 for all the regs etc.

Now I need to get them to remove the defaults, get the PPI back for the egg card and loan... another battle I guess .

- B e_inspired.

 

AS ALWAYS ALL THE ABOVE IS IMHO.

[e_inspired]

Thanks pt2537!

 

No, I didn't apply for costs its not to late is it? do I have to make another application notice? @£75 a pop their not cheap or can I just write to the Court and ask for it?

 

I am about to write egg about the default etc and any info you can give me will be very welcome.

 

- B e_inspired.

 

AS ALWAYS ALL THE ABOVE IS IMHO.

[e_inspired]

Hi pt253,

 

Thanks, I will research the whole cost issue..I think I can apply for costs but as you said it may not be worth it lucky egg.

 

Yes, I have the default notice.

 

- B e_inspired.

 

AS ALWAYS ALL THE ABOVE IS IMHO.

[e_inspired]

Hi All,

 

Where do I start... ok, so I think I have won it’s all done and dusted... read on.

 

So I do the natural thing and apply for costs, at costs hearing another Judge tells me that the court got it wrong and the files were filed in time (the order was to file and serve) I tried to explain this to this learned gentleman but no go, he gives a new order giving them more time to serve the amended claim (the muppets that are Egg don't even bother to show up to the cost hearing).

 

The egg hires new lawyers the dreaded drydens (I am sooo scared... no really I am they seem to know what they are doing), they serve the amended claim again out of time (yeah baby!!... well no).

 

By now we are all writing to the court to get their take on the matter and after 1000's of calls later to the court, hearing all kinds of things like it’s with the judge, it’s been stayed, we don't know where it is, its struck out, you will get a letter its being typed up, we can't find the file ... it really goes on and on. I finally got a nice person who faxed me a copy of a letter the court wrote to the lawyers, saying the claim is struck at as per blah blah blah BUT they can apply for an order to reinstate the claim mmm.

 

Today get a letter from Dry, guess what they are applying for the order above.

 

I believe I have a very good case against the egg but courts are strange places. I guess I may yet get my day in court.

 

If anybody knows the rules for applying for a reinstatement, i.e. what I can do to stop it, do they have a hearing, I would be grateful.

 

I will be detailing the case and issues in full and know I can count on your support.

Till the next instalment, I wish you all success in your endeavours.

 

BE_Inspired

[e_inspired]

Thanks, some really good advice in that thread, I can't wait to get a copy of their application(if the send it).

It also seems that there will also be a hearing, I get to see what the muppets are made of

[e_inspired]

My agreement.

eggcontract.jpg - Windows Live

The reinstatement hearing is next week, I don't plan to oppose it but rather ask the court to award cost to me for time wasted, to rule on the enforceability of the contract and allow me to counterclaim (I will be going for damages for PPI).

Egg don't want to remove the DN and I have made it clear that it is a requirement of any compromise so it would be a massive climb down if they offer anything for me to keep quiet about their dodgy contract .

Like I say I am not taking anything for granted, if they were to make an offer which included the DN being removed I would take it, Courts are funny places, anything can happen:(

[e_inspired]

Ok, so I get home today and guess what? drydens have sent a letter to me and the court asking for the reinstatement hearing (RH) to be heard at the same time as their application for summary judgement (SJ), basically the RH is supposed to be on the 23rd Jan, they want it heard mid Feb with the SJ, they would also like me to write to the court if I agree.

 

The RH is just 7 days away... mmmm I wonder whats going on?

 

Oh maybe its the recent letter I sent them (2 days ago) that I would be seeking the courts declearation on the enforceablity of the contract provided... maybe?

[e_inspired]

Ok, so I get home today and guess what? drydens have sent a letter to me and the court asking for the reinstatement hearing (RH) to be heard at the same time as their application for summary judgement (SJ), basically the RH is supposed to be on the 23rd Jan, they want it heard mid Feb with the SJ, they would also like me to write to the court if I agree.

 

The RH is just 7 days away... mmmm I wonder whats going on?

 

Oh maybe its the recent letter I sent them (2 days ago) that I would be seeking the courts declearation on the enforceablity of the contract provided... maybe?

 

I sent a fax to the court (also a copy to drydens) saying that I agree and also asking for the courts declaration on the enforceability of the contract.. based on part 18 etc.

 

I received a letter from the court yesterday saying that the hearings will be heard together on 17th feb (the judge had already decided before I had sent my letter ).

 

I received about 4 letters from drydens today saying basically the same thing that the hearing had been moved (they prob charge egg per letter).

[e_inspired]

Ok, so both applications are going to be heard on the 17th Feb.. less than 2 weeks away!!!!

 

I have today received the witness statement loads of blah blah... they are reallyy gunning for me look at this qoute below:

 

"It has only been since the Claimant began taking steps to recover the full balance due as a result of the Defendant's default under the Loan Agreement that the Defendant has raised issue with the validity of the Loan Agreement. The Claimant is of the opinon therefore that this allegation has been raised by the Defendant to avoid the repayment of the outstanding debt he is clearly liable for" :eek::eek:

 

This puppy is going all the way.. this weekend I am sleeping in the law library.. I need to really argue this multiple agreement properly.. I also need to file and serve by next tuesday (I think the CPR requires that?)

 

I am shi**ting bricks but I will give it my all.

 

I need all the help I can get... can anybody tell me what they think of this quote from the witness statement:

 

"The Defendant returned the signed Loan Agreement to the Claimant on or around 25 April 2004 and, having completed the necessary checks, the Claimant completed the Loan Agreement on or around 27 April 2004. In accordance with the terms of the Loan Agreement, a total advance of £xx,xxx.xx was granted under the Loan Agreement number xxxxx, the account number having been allocated once the Claimant had received all the required documentation from the Defendant"

 

I feel that this is a very serious statement, these are my thoughts:

 

1. s59 of CCA Agreement to enter future agreement void

2. They have already signed the agreement, so the agreement was excuted when I signed it or was it?

 

 

HELP!

Edited February 4, 2009 by e_inspired
Removed stuff about ppi wrong info

[e_inspired]

Just came back from court... I was lucky to make it out alive the DJ (he was good but) was definitely on the side of the egg , but somehow he deciding to adjourn the hearing so that the egg can get some answers to the issues I raised.

 

Basically we have narrowed it down to the following issues:

 

1. Was default notice valid?

 

My argument was:

 

The Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) require that a default notice in Schedule 2 (1) requires that for a default notice to be valid it must contain:

1. A description of the agreement sufficient to indentify it.

The DN I received states:

 

“Loan Agreement number xxxxxxxx

You are in breach of the terms of the agreement above, which requires.......”

 

Basically the egg stated an incorrect agreement number on the DN (they put the account number), the eggs barrister (a really nice guy and really good at his job) suggested that since I only had one loan with the egg that should have been sufficient to identify it. The DJ was unsure whether he had to consider the wider meaning or if he was supposed to have a narrow view on the reg. He said that he thought it maybe a technical error.

 

2. Is agreement void due to s59 of CCA

 

The DJ loved this point, even though he said he was leaning to the eggs view that the agreement had already been made, so it was not an agreement to enter an agreement. The DJ keep saying so if the agreement had been signed and I failed the checks what would happen, the barrister had to admit that it was a contentious issue as to what would have happened in that case and under contract law their potentially would be issues.

 

3. Was the agreement improperly executed?

 

The agreement did not have the Total Amount Payable or the Total Charge for Credit.

 

The DJ went along with the barrister’s argument that they could be worked out from the information on the agreement. I tried in vain to say that the CCA required them to be there and if they were not that the egg needed the court’s permission to enforce the agreement

 

4. Is agreement a multi part agreement?

 

We didn't get time to address this issue but outside the barrister tried to say that the PPI and loan were in the same category, I set him straight on that.

 

So there it is folks the show goes on. If anybody can point me to any case law that could support my views I would be grateful, the next time we meet it is going to be game over and it’s not looking to good for me.

 

Thanks for reading.

[e_inspired]

It feels good when you can through a few swerve balls in there mate and well done, however, like you say it is just a matter of time now !

 

I have been made an offer which is very close to the claim figure however, does not have the amount of legal fees and expenses that they would be claiming if a judgement was made...

 

Am in two minds, whether to just accept or to make a counter offer....

 

Counter offer, don't be forced to pay more than you can afford cos if you can't keep to the agreement you will be toasted. In my case I need to have the default removed... we settled on a figure of £5000 but they refuse to remove the default, hopefully they might reconsider cos even though it seems they have the upper hand at the moment, in my particular circumstances it really could go either way.

[e_inspired]

The following might help:

 

OFT Rulings - Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 2004 sections: 9.3, 9.4, 9.5 & 9.6which further clarifies their view

 

 

Thanks for this web2dude.

 

My agreement is date april 2004 so the rulings don't apply to my agreement.

 

"1.8 What if an agreement is entered into before 31 May 2005?

If a regulated agreement is executed before 31 May 2005, it is subject to the 1983 Regulations but not the 2004 Regulations. If it is executed after that date, but is signed by one or more parties before then, it may benefit from transitional provisions – see Q1.9."

 

Any ideas how you would use the info in the doc for pre 31 may 2005 agreements? any ideas would be welcome.

[e_inspired]

due to time constraints placed upon me by work, i can only answer this point

 

It is irrelevent that you can calculate it from the figures, it was parliaments will that the TTC and TAP were incorperated into the agreement( See Consumer Credit Agreement Regulations 1983 Schedule 1)

 

point out that it is to be made clear so that the true cost of borrowing and its constituent parts are made clear to the consumer , who is most likely to be a layperson of little legal experience

 

to quote Lombard tricity Finance and Paton it is a "Childs Handbook" so if the regs say its gotta be there it has to be there

 

furthermore, how many people carry a calculator to a place when you are going to sign up for finance? not many id guess it is a very bad point the Barrister makes

 

Hi pt2537,

 

Thanks for taking the time out to look my thread .

 

If there are any authorities that relate to any of the points I have raised, I would be very gratful if you could point me in the right direction so I can do my research. I have roughly 21 days to prepare my argument.

 

Thanks again.

[e_inspired]

Have you considered using a barrister on the new direct access scheme. You can instruct a barrister directly without using a solicitor. I instructed a guy from 5 Pump Court. He argued successfully that my executed agreement did not contain the prescribed terms' date=' and the court set it aside. He saved me about £6,000 in debt and legal fees. His fee was restricted because it was on the fast track.[/quote']

 

What a GREAT suggestion. I am going to explore this in more detail Thanks!!!

[e_inspired]

Hi e inspired

 

I’m another cagger with one of these egg agreements, just subbing and wishing you good luck

 

Thank you .

 

Ok, so now I have got myself a big bad barrister.. costing me (hopefully them) nearly £900 including VAT.

 

D' day is the 25 of march the hearing is listed with a time estimate of 2hrs.

 

 

I will report back whatever the outcome.

[e_inspired]

Hi e_inspired

 

Thanks for your update.

 

I know your case has a lot of "unusual" elements to it, but a lot of people (including my friend) are really interested in whether this type of Egg agreement can be declared unenforceable under s127 due to its s18 multiple agreement status.

 

Do you know if your case rests on that aspect, and if your barrister is planning to go for that specifically?

 

Hmmm... somehow I can't see Egg risking such a ruling in court if they can possibly avoid it. I really hope you don't get gagged on this one, e_inspired.

 

 

s18 is one of the points that will be raised.

I am really interested in the s59 argument, the judge also seemed really interested about this point at the hearing, imagine what it would mean if the agreement was declared VOID that would be .:eek:. Amazing... the effect would be HUGE... It would cost them loads .

 

They have risked it once already and no doubt they will risk it again. If they make a "last minute" offer I can't refuse, you would know because my last post on here would be 'Game over no comment'.

[e_inspired]

What was the outcome, any thread on that?

 

Mistermind, I was referring to this claim, they went to trial knowing the issues I had raised about the agreement etc...

[e_inspired]

Good Luck On Wednesday :D:D:D

 

Thanks!!! If I am not eaten alive, I will let you know the outcome Wednesday evening

[e_inspired]

Quick update, the barrister sent me a skeleton argument to send to drydens, so I emailed/faxed it yesterday night.

 

This afternoon I had offer from them saying the are now willing to remove the default as long as I pay £8,500 in 28 days time.. offer expires at 10am tomorrow (funny thing is I made an offer to pay £5000 and for them to remove the default a long time ago but they totally refused).

 

Lets see what tomorrow brings.

[e_inspired]

Without meaning to be intrusive, what percentage of the outstanding amount does Egg's offer equate to??

 

Good luck for tommorow and will be watching the outcome with interest!!

 

Thanks!!! no problem, I think it works out at 45%, they have taken off the PPI and the PPI interest. So its as if I never had the PPI and the payments I made reduced the principle loan.

[e_inspired]

The matter did not get heard we made a deal, I pay £6,000 @ £250per month and they remove the default all starting on or before the 14th of April.

 

I word of advice before you hire a barrister under public access, arrange a meeting first just to see what they think your prospects are. The reason I say this is because the barrister seemed to have his creditor biased hat on (he also works for creditors), he thought I should take the original £8,500 offer, I refused then they came back with £7,000, he was like thats a very good offer and if they win with costs etc I would pay over £20,000, I said no deal.. then they came back with £6,500.. no deal oh by the way the instalments they wanted was £300 (no way in hell I could afford that)... I said £6,000 @ £250 take it or leave it (hoping they would reject it).

 

The irony is that the creditors barrister after we had signed the tomlin, said he thought based on my ealier skeleton he I had a good chance of winning.. I just lost my nerve.

 

When we told the DJ that we had reached an agreement he commented that he was looking foward to this case all morning, he was a little bit dissapointed.

 

So many maybes.. maybe I shouldn't have hired the barrister.. maybe I should have stuck to my £5,000 offer... maybe I shouldn't have agreed to anything... who knows.. in any case I thank God that it is over.

 

So it ends, a victory of sorts the DN is going... but I didn't get to test anything in court.

 

Or does it.. I am thinking they owe me over £7000 in missold PPI (credit card and this loan), tomlin makes no mention that I can't try n get PPI back or talk about case etc.......;-)

 

 

 

B e_inspired

 

Sorry for any typos.

[e_inspired]

e inspired,

 

Did you still have to pay your Barrister? Because if so, your giving him £900 for nothing?

 

Yep, he got ~£900 for nothing (paid upfront), I think he forgot what side he was supposed to be working for.. he just kept saying well you had the money blah blah blah.. its a good deal..blah blah blah.. whatever you decide but I think its a good offer blah blah blah.

 

He did say one useful thing, if I couldn't maintain the payment agreed in the tomlin that I should speak to egg if they don't reduce it, I could apply to the court to get it varied.

 

Maybe its best this way, had I won, yes I would have not had to pay anything.. I might even have got a little money by the way of costs, but the default would have still been on my file till june 2012.

[e_inspired]

And so my friends it ends. I took Egg to court over the PPI and today we settled, I am not allowed to revel the terms of the settlement but I am reasonably happy.

 

So in conclusion default removed, and all outstanding liabilites to egg settled.

 

The link below has doc's related to the case:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/219582-egg-card-question.html

 

B e_inspired