Peter's Progress **WON**

[PeteCC]

Hi, All,

 

Once again, thanks for all the help I've received from this site. Either from just reading or from replies to posts.

 

Just to say I had an acc with LTSB a few years ago, and went over my overdraft limit. I incurred charges which kept pushing me further and further into the red. (Sound familiar, anyone?)

 

Anyway, I was defaulted, and still have outstanding debts on this acc. What I mean is that the total by which I was overdrawn is less than I have paid back via various collection agencies. (This should make it an interesting excercise when I come to total the charges etc.)

 

So, DPA letter off this morning, and I'm going to need to see what charges, if any, the collection agencies have applied to this acc. I'm working from the premise that any charges they HAVE applied are returnable, too. (Does anyone have any info on this?)

 

Because I was defaulted for a sum composed entirely of 'charges', I will be asking for the default to be removed.

 

Dangers in darkeness, devils, hell, and sin,

Did compass me, while I this vale was in;

 

Regards,

 

PeteCC

[Bookworm]

Hi, Pete. Love the Da Vinci duck, btw.

 

The charges from the collection agencies, same principle applies as for the banks. They would be entitled to a fee for managing the account, but £15 letters and so on would be arguable.

 

If you detail what you have been charged once you get the information, we might get things a bit clearer.

 

.

[PeteCC]

Thanks, Bookworm,

 

That's what I'd been thinking re. the DCA charges, but I'd sort of be hoping I could hit the bank for them instead. (Can't have everything, I suppose.)

 

I'll update as we go.

 

Regards,

 

PeteCC

[PeteCC]

Hmmm. Just got a letter yesterday from Scotcall, (DCA), who tell me they haven't applied ANY charges to the account. That's a surprise really, as I've been d****** them about for years. eg, sorry for the missed payment but my mother/father/pet elephant just died, etc.

 

So, just awaiting Lloyd's reply to the Data Protection Act which as yet is not signed for. (One interesting thing is that when I called Scotcall via phone, they said that they had returned the acc to Lloyds as, 'they (Scotcall) only had a certain amount of time in which to collect'.) Is this to enable Lloyds a buffer zone whereby they can apply for a CCJ or whatever, do you think?

 

I was defaulted on 15/11/01, so I guess that this will be removed from my credit report in November 2007 as there is, as yet, no CCJ. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) The reason I query this is that if, by some quirk, I have to continue payments beyond the 6 year cut-off point, will this still be shown as a default after this time?

 

Still, onwards and upwards.

 

Regards,

 

PeteCC

[callumsgran]

I think you will find that the default can continue after the six yrs if it hasnt been paid, the bank would have to apply for it to stay on and many dont bother, this is as i understand it as ive just been reading forum about it, i may be wrong of course?

[PeteCC]

Hi, All,

 

This one is starting to look a little tricky, not in the process, but in the amount claimed.

 

I was defaulted by LTSB for £803.00, which is slightly higher than my claim, but there are £187.50 in charges which go back further than the 6 years, so when it comes to getting the default removed, maybe that will count, even if I can't claim them back. However, that's not the real problem.

 

Over the last 5 years I've been sporadically paying this alleged debt back, and my 'balance' is about £300.00. This means that I didn't lose any interest on a lot of the charges, as they haven't been paid, and some of those that were paid, were paid AFTER the account was defaulted, (with me so far?), so until I get a breakdown of what I paid and when I paid, from the DCA, I can't even guess the amount, apart from that on the charges which were paid while the account was running, and I was in the black.

 

So, as far as the claim goes, I'm figuring that I will/should be only claiming the amount I've paid back after the default, plus any interest, (should I have to file a claim), that I can demonstrate would have been earned on money I physically paid out.

 

Anybody else in the same situation?

 

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Regards,

 

PeteCC

[PeteCC]

Hi,

 

I've written to the DCA to get a list of all the payments which I made to this account over the years, so hopefully they'll be good enough to send this on to me.

 

The above notwithstanding, I sent the first claim letter to LTSB on 17th July, and have received three replies!

 

One dated 18th to say they were sorry to learn of my concerns etc, and had forwarded my letter to the Customer Service Recovery Department, one dated the 19th from said Customer Service Recovery Department acknowleging they had received the complaint, and one dated 21st, again from Customer Service Recovery Department, to say that as the charges were not 'default' charges, but a fee for service I could go chew a brick.

 

Quote, "The fees we charge for going over an overdraft limitand for returned payments are not any kind of default penalty. They are fixed standard prices for the service we provide in these situations." (My italics.)

 

Hence including the following;

 

I note your comment that the charges you have applied are a fee for service, and I repudiate this most strongly. This ‘service’ conveys no benefit to myself, furthermore;

 

Under the "reasonableness test" condition of a term, of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977:

5. It is for those claiming that a contract term or notice satisfies the requirement of reasonableness to show that it does.

 

 

Saturday, 22 July 2006

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Ms Horton,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXX

 

[deleted]

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Peter

 

Onwards and upwards, as they say.................

 

 

Regards,

 

PeteCC

 

 

 

[MODERATED: Letter templates are available in the templates library for registered users only]

[PeteCC]

Well, the DCA say that I have made no payments to them, so I'm assuming anything I paid was to a company who passed on the 'debt'. I have no full records of this, so...................

 

Mandy Horton

Customer Service Recovery Centre

125 Colmore Row

Birmingham

B3 3SF

 

Tuesday, 25 July 2006

 

 

 

Dear Ms Horton,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXX

 

Further to the above account, I recently received documents from LTSB in response to my Data Protection Act (Subject Access Request) of 16th June 2006.

 

However, I notice that there are no references in the information I have been sent which show the schedule of payments which I made to any Collections agency you may have appointed to collect this alleged debt, and as after other enquiries I understand that this account has been returned to you, I am assuming that you have not sold this on to a 3rd party, and this information should have been included in response to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

 

Please send me full details of any such payments, the dates received and the amounts etc.

 

The expiry date for compliance with the above S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) is on or about 29th July 2006, but as a courtesy for the short notice in bringing this oversight to your attention, I will expect the details no later than 5th August 2006.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

I await with breathless anticipation. (Yeah, right!)

 

Regards,

 

PeteCC

 

PS Sorry about that, Mods, didn't occur to me.

[PeteCC]

Well, no further forward as yet, so sent the letter below;

 

Tuesday, 25 July 2006

 

Dear Ms Horton,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxx

 

Further to the above account, I recently received documents from LTSB in response to my Data Protection Act (Subject Access Request) of 16th June 2006.

 

However, I notice that there are no references in the information I have been sent which show the schedule of payments which I made to any Collections agency you may have appointed to collect this alleged debt, and as after other enquiries I understand that this account has been returned to you, I am assuming that you have not sold this on to a 3rd party, and this information should have been included in response to my SAR.

 

Please send me full details of any such payments, the dates received and the amounts etc.

 

The expiry date for compliance with the above SAR is on or about 29th July 2006, but as a courtesy for the short notice in bringing this oversight to your attention, I will expect the details no later than 5th August 2006.

 

 

Yours sincerely,

[PeteCC]

Hi, All,

 

I've now received a letter from LTSB, this time from Jamie O' Neill, to say,

 

'(he) has noted my request and I am unable to obtain such information in this department. For any further information required, please write to the following address.

 

DSAR Team

Drop Zone C49

Charlton Place

Andover

SP10 1RE'

 

Well, sorry Jamie, 'snot going to happen like that.

 

(see below)

[PeteCC]

The reply!

 

Jamie O’ Neill

Customer Service Recovery Centre

125 Colmore Row

Birmingham

B3 3SF

Saturday, 05 August 2006

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxx

 

Dear Mr O’Neill,

 

I note with some dismay, and much surprise, your response to my letter of 25th July 2006.

 

Below is a copy of an email I have sent to Mr Boden from the ‘contact.us’ department with whom I have been in contact on several occasions. (Yes, I understand about this 'Mr Boden'. I just used the 'contact.us address to chase the original SAR.)

 

Dear Mr Boden,

 

I have received a reply to the letter, (below), yesterday morning, subsequent to my email to you. However, to my surprise, I was told in this, by a Jamie O’ Neill, that I would need to write to another department, DSAR Team, for the information.

 

I would like to complain in the strongest possible terms about this.

 

First, Lloyds TSB should have included the information in reply to my original SAR.

 

Second, it is surely not unreasonable to expect that, if the department with which I am dealing is unable to action my request, the appropriate department be contacted via some internal communication.

 

Third, as can be seen from the letter to Ms Horton, I had extended the deadline for receipt of this information past the 40 day statutory maximum under the DPA, yet I did not receive this letter until 3rd August, eight days after the assumed receipt of MY letter, and two days before expiry of the revised date.

 

Therefore, if I do not receive the information which I have requested by Tuesday, 8th August, (I take into account the probability that no-one will receive this until Monday), thereby again extending the deadline, I will be filing a complaint with the Information Commissioner for non-compliance.

 

You may use my email address to send me this information.

 

Regards, (etc…..)

 

Please note, if the above schedule is not adhered to by yourselves, then the action which I propose apropos the Information Commissioner will be instigated.

 

Yours sincerely,

[PeteCC]

And the next letter, to be sent on 9th August goes thus;

 

Mandy Horton

Customer Service Recovery Centre

125 Colmore Row

Birmingham

B3 3SF

Wednesday, 09 August 2006

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxx

 

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

 

Dear Ms Horton,

 

I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated 16th June 2006. The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that at least the following documents are missing.

 

1) You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges. I have had occasion to pay a DCA (Debt Collection Agency) varying amounts over the last few years in relation to this account, and there is no indication of the amounts or dates of these transactions. I understand from your agents that the alleged debt has been passed back to yourselves indicating that you have not ‘sold this on’; therefore details of those payments will be held by yourselves and should have been included in the documents which you sent to me.

 

2) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of manual intervention.

 

This is not an exhaustive list by any means, it is just an example of some of the information I am missing.

 

Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998 despite the fact that I wrote to you regarding this and extending the deadline by which I would expect the information.

 

The time for compliance with my request has now expired. If you do not comply fully with my Subject Access Request within 7 days, I shall apply to the County Court for an order to enforce compliance, together with damages at the discretion of the court, and a complaint lodged with the Information Commissioner.

 

Yours sincerely

 

(Composed from the template, thank you.)

 

LTSB are a true 'hurry up and wait company'.

 

Good luck to all other claimants. Do a Peter Gabriel, 'Don't Give Up'.

[Janet-M]

just to let you know we are reading your thread but have not commented as you are doing fine.

 

please keep us updated

[PeteCC]

Thanks for that, Mjanet, I have just been pottering along. But that's in no small measure due to the guidance I've had from reading the forums, so thanks to all; mods, helpers, claimants alike.

 

However, now I'm stuck!

 

I received 2 replies to my letter above, both dated 11th August, one from the aforementioned Mr O' Neill telling me he was, 'sorry to learn that you are unhappy with our response to date', and that, 'hopefully, you will receive this (the schedule of payments) within the next few days.' {Glad he's hopeful, I'm sure as heck not.}

 

The other reply was from Daphne Tipper (Mrs), Customer Service Advisor, advising me, (ah, that's the role of an advisor), that, 'we've received your letter-and to say how sorry I am to learn that you remain unhappy with us'. I now have her assurance that, 'one of our assistant managers, (Jamie, perhaps?), will investigate the concerns you have raised with us.......... I would expect the enquiries to be complete within the coming 2 weeks'.

 

Well, this is obviously not on, I need to action this in a couple of day's time at the latest. So, my question is, what's the next step? (Normally I just delve in to the site and get what I need, but I'm afraid that the last few days have been spent in a field with twenty thousand Fairport fans, so research has been a little lacking. Coupled with the fact that the whole world and her sister seem to be posting on here...)

 

I'll continue to search for what I need, but a 'quick-fix' would be most appreciated. (Even just a pointer.) I seem to recall a thread where the courts didn't know how to process this type of action, but it may not have referred to this topic, and I can't find it anyway.

 

Regards,

 

PeteCC

[Janet-M]

What you do is still stick to your time table you gave them , do not let them dictate the speed of this.If they have failed to comply with your SAR then send the LBA for non compliance (as you have ) when the time limit is up then start a claim . There is guidence on how to do this in the libary section.

[PeteCC]

Many thanks, mjanet. As I said, 3 days of festival and frolics. Brain's gone dead. Had a quick look in the library section, (like I've never looked before?), and of course, staring me in the face! Ah well, to sleep, perchance to dream, ay, there's the template..........

 

And in the section re. extra costs.........

 

Extra costs incurred in addition to court costs, due to the Defendant’s failure to comply - this includes the cost of additional correspondence and time spent preparing documents and seeking legal advice, I estimate this cost to be £19.90 (2 x hours of research and correspondence @ £9.25/hr plus 4 x first class stamps @ £0.32, 4 x envelopes @ £0.025, paper, ink and electricity.

 

PeteCC

[PeteCC]

Hi, All,

 

Well I'd composed the letter giving 7 days before court action to comply with the Data Protection Act, but before I posted it a letter arrived this morning with the info, so calculator at hand..........

 

However, just had to smile, the letter read;

 

Dear Mr XXXXXX-XXXX,

 

Please find enclosed a statement of your account, detailing all payments received to date.

 

If you need any further help please call us.

 

If you wish to make a payment today using either your Debit or Credit card, then please contact us on the above telephone number.

 

Yours sincerely,

Er, perhaps not.

 

PeteCC

[PeteCC]

Okay, so I have now recalculated the amount due from all the information I received, and am sending a revised copy of the LBA and charges schedule to Ms Horton restating my intention fo file a claim.

 

I did receive one further letter yesterday from the fast becoming famous Jamie, and in it he states, 'Regarding point 2, I am not sure what you mean by "manual intervention", however, I have enclosed a print of any notes that staff have made on the customer records system. I hope this will be helpful.'

 

Er, ok.

 

Mind you, in the midst of all this, I will admit to having a blonde, or senior, moment. (I'll admit to one or the other, not both, and it's your choice), where I reprinted my original letter to my branch manager and posted that off yesterday. So, an apology is on its way, I don't want the poor devil to feel she/he is suffering déjà vu when it's clearly a case of déjà éprouvé.

 

PeteCC

 

Just FYI, a friend of mine whom I am assisting in his claim received his bank statements (from HBOS) etc in 55 (fifty-five) separate envelopes this morning...............

 

Oh, I feel a complaint coming on.

[PeteCC]

Hi, All,

 

I know it's been a while since I posted on this thread, or any other really, but things with my claim seemed to be following the path of so many others, and there was little I could add.

 

However, just to give a little encouragement to those who are chasing payment from Lloyds TSB..................

 

After a lot of prevarication, and coming perilously close to having action taken over non-compliance of Data Protection Act 40 days rulings, (over the time limit for some of the info requested, but within, JUST within, my timescale), I received all the info I needed to continue my claim.

 

Over the last few weeks/months...........

 

The court sent information to me that they has asked for an Allocation Questionaire from the bank within 7 days or they would have been in default.

 

I checked with the court and the AQ had NOT been sent in time, (at least, according to their records, but as I had received my copy from Scratchy etc, I knew this to be a mistake, 'though I let it ride...................) I then had a letter to say they HAD submitted an AQ.

 

Before I claimed default, (see above), I had a letter from the court to say that LTSB, or their representatives, could not attend court during November or December, (busy suing Santa?), and they would send me a date.

 

I then had a date for today (1000hrs, 8/2/2007).

 

I turned up! LTSB didn't!

 

The Judge, when I appeared before him, informed me that they, (the Court), had received various letters and faxes from LTSB to say that they were willing to settle the claim in full, and that a cheque had been sent to me the previous day for the full amount of the claim.

 

To be honest, and this is only from my own experience................

 

When the Judge announced that LTSB admitted no liability as to the validity of the claim, but would pay anyway, he grinned.

 

He then set an order that if before the end of the month no further action was required by me, then the case would be closed. (Verbatim.... or close to.......... 'if there's a problem, such as the cheque bouncing.............')

 

My friends, do not be deterred!

 

In retrospect, as I had to go to court, and possibly argue my case, I could have built a housing estate with the bricks I was s*****g, but the bottom line is that the banks will not Go To Court.

 

Take heed, take care, and take heart.

 

Regards,

 

PeteCC

[Janet-M]

Thank you for telling us how you got on in court

would it be possible for you to give us the exact wording of the order please ?

 

and mainly

CONGRATULATIONS

[PeteCC]

Hi, All,

 

Just got a copy of the order from the court. It reads as follows:

 

Before District Judge Pescod sitting at Gateshead County Court, 5th Floor Chad House,Tynegate Precinct, Gateshead, NE8 3HZ.

 

Upon hearing the Claimant in person and Upon reading the Defendant's letter, and the defendant having indicated on intention to settle the claim in full.

 

BY CONSENT

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT the Claimant's application be adjourned generally with liberty to restore ifno application to restore is made by 4:00pm on the 30th March 2007, the proceedings be deemed to have been withdrawn.

 

I've left their typos in.

 

One other thing that happened was that on Saturday I received a letter from SC&M.

 

We refer to the above matter and enclose our Client's further cheque for £15.24 in respect of unpaid interest.

 

Er, ok, thanks. That can't, I mean really CAN'T, be them acting in a unilateral and fair way, can it?

 

Regards,

 

PeteCC

[Janet-M]

is that ALL the money they have sent you ? have you checked your account .. just incase ?

 

i WILL ALSO TAKE ** won** off your thread title as this is still ongoing

[PeteCC]

Hi,

 

There's no problem here. I'd received and banked (and now nearly spent) the amount of the claim, this just seems to be interest which was due from the claim date to hearing date.

 

PeteCC