AlphaGeeK Vs Amex ***WON***

[Alphageek]

Hi everyone, long time lurker on here and have been reading everything my (now square shaped) eyes could take in over the past couple of weeks.

 

I think I know what to do to get the ball rolling, but am going to post here for 2 reasons.

 

First, so you people who are further along and more experienced than I can (if you're feeling helpful) keep me on the right track should I start to veer off in the wrong direction.

 

Secondly (and more importantly), to try and keep this thread as informative as possible so any other people who have suffered at the hands of the illegal actions of the parasitical financial institutions will feel that they are empowered to claim back their rights (and money, interest and possible damages).

 

Some of the stories you read on here are nothing short of scandalous. The lengths the lending institutions, banks, debt collection agencies and bailiffs go to is unbelievable.

 

Fortunately, it seems we have good laws in this country and it seems fairly straightforward to get them off your backs and to refund any unlawful charges they have taken.

 

My 1st tip for any lurkers reading this is to get started as soon as you find yourself having issues with any lenders or want to claim back your money. Giving the lenders any more time to harass you only benefits them.

[Alphageek]

So, on to my situation.

 

I got behind on my Amex account payments and they defaulted me.

 

Note to lurkers (and self): I could have quite easily prevented this default being registered. See my tip no. 1 above.

 

Debt sold to or is now being handled by Debt Collection Agents (acronym DCA) Newman and Company of Leeds.

 

I can see the default on my credit report via CreditExpert (http://www.creditexpert.co.uk). It shows as the following;

 

The account is defaulted. You have failed to keep to your credit agreement and have not responded satisfactorily to requests to put your account in order. As a result the credit agreement has ended.

The most annoying phone calls from Newman's and interminable letters followed.

 

I agreed a payment plan and have pretty much adhered to it.

 

The balance when I first hit problems was around 10K. My latest Amex statement shows I owe around 1.5k.

 

So I now wish to claim back the unlawful charges.

 

I am going to issue a S.AR. (Subject Access Request) letter and a CCA (Consumer Credit Act) letter to Amex.

 

The SAR will compel them to produce all data they hold about me and the CCA will be asking them to produce a true copy of the executed credit agreement.

 

The data I will receive under the SAR will enable me to work out how much illegally obtained money of mine they have and if they cannot produce the true copy of the executed credit agreement, the agreement is invalid and no debts are enforceable.

 

Will post more later.

[Alphageek]

Sorry, had to go to pick my Girl-friend's dog up from the Vets.

 

Anyway, back to business.

 

The format of these letters, or templates can be found on this site.

 

The SAR is here.

 

and the CCA is here - Letter N

 

(Note: IF you're new here, you will need to sign up and be logged in to see the text of those templates)

 

 

My latest Amex statement is ~1.5k, yet the latest letter from Newmans says I owe ~3.5k. I guess they're looking for a healthy profit.

 

My first question then is; Should I SAR and CCA the DCA as well as Amex so I have the full picture.

 

The reason I ask about the sense in SAR and CCAing the DCA is that I don't think there has ever been a Deed of Assignment from Amex to Newmans and they are just "acting on behalf of..."

 

Their letters always say something like "...instructions from our client to proceed further..."

 

I am of the mind to SAR and CCA both parties, wait until their 12 days are up (for the CCA) and if/when they fail to produce change my payment instalments to £5.00 (as a gesture of good will (GOGW)) while I proceed with claiming back the illegal charges.

 

All suggestions welcomed.

[Alphageek]

Hi Steven,

 

Thanks for popping by.

 

I was thinking of sending a SAR to the DCA so I have lots of ammunition about their calls & letters when I eventually warn them off for possible harrasment.

 

Would they not log all calls and mail in a database and thus have to disclose?

 

Anyway, I think £10.00 worth of annoyance will = for me.

 

I guess you're right though. I guess I can't tell then to stop contact until in dispute, so anything previous will be irrelevant?

[Alphageek]

CCA and SAR sent to Amex and Newman this morning via recorded delivery. They will be deemed to have received it on 17/05/2007.

[Alphageek]

Royal Mail site shows the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and CCA delivered to Amex today (under separate cover).

 

Interestingly, the same things sent to Newmans in Leeds has not been delivered yet. I guess they'll show up tomorrow.

[Alphageek]

Royal mail shows Newmans in receipt of both letters today.

[Alphageek]

Received a reply from Amex today. It consisted of the following;

• A compliments slip with "Free of charge. Regards, Illegible Sig"
  
• The £1 PO I sent as fee for the CCA request
  
• 2 copies of 13 pages headed "GOLD CREDIT CARD AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974"
  
• A photocopy of what looks like 2 application forms

Here is the photocopy. Blurring applied by me and some text added to show what I have removed.

 

Image Scan Here

 

Clearly, this is not a true copy of the executed agreement.

 

Question: Should I write thanking them for the enclosed but reminding them that I asked for a true copy of the executed agreement and the application form they sent me cannot be assumed to be it.

 

Should remind them of the original time scale (from when they first received my original request) and should I send them the PO back?

 

I thought I had seen a nice template letter for this somewhere, but can't find it

 

Thanks.

[Alphageek]

Oh, I should add that I have not read the 2 13 page documents yet, but they seem to be the same thing on 1st glance.

 

Neither of them have any dates on nor any handwritten notes.

 

They both have what I take to be the word processing document reference in the header or footer (CAM 4520 - 301 -d64-wp-18.01.06) and probably supposed to be the terms at the time of opening the account and the present terms.

[Alphageek]

Also, the small print on the app form, above, you can read as well as I can. i.e., it's pretty illegible!

[Alphageek]

I'll put something together tomorrow. Thanks.

[Alphageek]

A package arrived this morning via recorded delivery. It is the response to my SAR.

 

The package consisted of the following;

 

• Cover letter dated 17.5.07, stating "Dear Alpahageek, Please find enclosed copies of statements detailing all charges as requested. Should you have any further queries regarding the statements please do not hessitate to contact us in writing. Yours sincerely," - pp signed for a Data Protection Co-ordinator.
  
• My £10 cheque
  
• Copies of my statements. The earliest being dated in Jan 2001.The latest being this month's

There is no notation regarding any manual intervention, nor is there a statement that there is no such notation due to the lack of any such manual intervention. My SAR letter specifically asked for this.

 

Are Amex obliged to supply statements from the time of account opening in 1997 and not just for the last 6 years? If they are, and they have levied unlawful penalty charges am I able to reclaim them?

 

I am also surprised there are no details of the transferring of the account to the DCA, I was expecting copy letters, default notices (if any), Deed of Assignment (if any).

 

Also, there surely must be more information held on this account (discounting the DCA saga) that they have failed to supply, or have I really been just a number to them afterall?

 

As per the CCA request, should I write back (enclosing the original cheque) and request the missing information?

 

I suppose I should get on with completing a spredsheet. Which is the best to use for Amex?

 

Thanks.

[Alphageek]

In response to the agreement form being sent for my CCA request.

 

My Address

Place

Place

P/Code

 

Date

 

Person

Data Protection Co-ordinator

American Express Services Europe Limited

Data protection Office

Department 2007

Amex House

Edward Street

Brighton

BN88 1AH

 

 

Dear Person,

 

Re: − Account Number 0000 000000 00000

 

Thank you for your letter postmarked 17.05.07 and the enclosure of a copy of my original application form together with what I presume to be a copy of the terms and conditions applicable to the account at opening and those applicable today.

 

My original letter (copy enclosed) requested that you send me a true copy of the executed credit agreement. Your above mentioned letter did not have this enclosed. I ask you to correct this omission and provide me with said true copy.

 

The application form does not represent a true copy of an executed agreement having various prescribed terms missing and is, in parts, illegible.

 

I ask you to be mindful of the wording of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79) and remind you that my original letter is deemed to have been received by yourselves on the 17.05.07 and that you should comply with my properly formatted request within 12 working days.

 

I re-enclose £1.00, in the form of a postal order, which represents the fee payable under the act for this request.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

 

Alphageek.

 

 

 

Enc: Copy letter dated Monday, 15 May 2007

Postal Oder serial number 000000 00 0000 00000000

Via Royal Mail Recorded 1st Class – DL 0000 0000 0GB

Any comments before I send?

 

Thanks.

[Alphageek]

I personally think Mindzai's is the easiest to use - see bottom of first post on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/26172-mindzai-lucid-lloyds-tsb.html

 

Hi, thanks for the pointers.

 

Mindzai's spreadsheet states that it should not be used for credit cards on the Notes tab. Do you know why?

[Alphageek]

Letter re incomplete disclosure under S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

 

 

Address

Address

Address

Address

Postcode

 

Date

Person

Data Protection Co-ordinator

American Express Services Europe Limited

Data protection Office

Department 2007

Amex House

Edward Street

Brighton

BN88 1AH

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

Dear Person,

Re: − Account Number 0000 000000 00000

I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated Monday, 15 May 2007 (copy enclosed). The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that at least the following documents are missing.

1. You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges dated between account opening in DATE and DATE
   
2. The screen dump in lieu of MONTHS’s statement is not annotated and is, therefore, meaningless to me.
   
3. You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of manual intervention.
   
4. You have provided no notes, or documents relating to a default entered by your company against my credit reference agency file on or around DATE. Particularly statutory default notices.
   
5. You have provided no notes, or documents relating the transfer of the account to DCA on or around DATE. Particularly a deed of assignment.

This is not an exhaustive list by any means, it is just an example of some of the information I am missing.

 

Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

You have a further thirty six days to comply, or I will seek an order in the County Court under the Data Protection Act.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

Alphageek.

 

 

 

Enc: Copy letter dated Monday, 15 May 2007

Personal cheque number 000000

Via Royal Mail Recorded 1st Class – DL 0000 0000 0GB

Any comments?

[Alphageek]

Can I not just print the frames of your avatar?

[Alphageek]

Feel free.

 

(of course, I didn't mean you should write " You have a further thirty six days to comply, or else". I meant, " You have a further thirty six days to comply or I will seek and order in the County Court under the Data Protection Act" - but you knew that)

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

 

I thought ", or else!" had a nice ring to it. But I agree with you in that we do not sink to their level.

 

Amended letter in above post as per your suggestion. Thanks again.

[Alphageek]

I didn't even receive a copy of my application - they only sent me a set of their latest terms and conditions.............kept my £1.00 postal order though!

 

Hi Josie8, If they have kept the £1.00 PO, that just strengthens your request. Keep at them.

[Alphageek]

Royal mail site shows both of my recent letters delivered on 22nd.

[Alphageek]

Received letter from the DCA this morning.

 

QUOTE REF: 0000000/0000

 

25th May 2007

 

Alphageek

 

RE Alphageek

FOR American Express Svcs Europe Ltd

A/C No. 0000 000000 00000

 

Amount Due: xx.xx

 

ATTENTION

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Further to your letter of xth May.

 

We have requested the appropriate details from our client and are awaiting the arrival of these. Once they are in our possession we will forward these to you via Recorded Post.

 

Should you have any further queries regarding this please contact me directly.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Person

 

Accounts Executive

NEWMAN & COMPANY

Sounds like normal waffle to me. Should I write to them reminding them of their obligations?

[Alphageek]

Amex and DCA are both over the 12 day limit to supply a copy of my agreement.

 

Do I just sit tight now and wait for a further 30 days?

[Alphageek]

Received letter from the DCA this morning.

 

Please find enclosed copy of your original application to American Express as requested.

 

They sent me a copy of the application forms I got from Amex in post #10 and another from, presumably, when I switched to a Gold Card.

 

It's such bad quality, I nearly didn't have to blur out any personal details.

 

Scan here.

 

Am I too early to write to Newmans telling them that Amex had no right in disclosing my data to them (as Amex have defaulted on CCA as of yesterday) and that they should revert my files back to Amex and cease to, or not start to process any data where I am the data subject as there is no agreement allowing them to do so?

 

I think it's the DPA s10 letter I need to send, but it will need some amendments for sending to Newmans.

[Alphageek]

I am thinking of sendig this to the DCA on Monday. Comments please?

 

My Address

 

 

DATE

Newman & Company Ltd

Limewood House

Limewood Way

Leeds

West Yorkshire

LS14 1AB

 

Notice pursuant to s.10 of The Data Protection Act 1998.

 

 

Re: Amex account no. 0000

Newman reference: 0000

Account holder. Alphageek

Address. My Address

Whereas I have been in correspondence with American Express Services Europe Limited since 1997 and despite my correctly formatted request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 they and Newman and Company Limited have failed to produce a correctly executed agreement between myself and American Express Services Europe Limited implying my consent to process any data where I am the data subject. Without such consent, American Express Services Europe Limited had no authority to disclose any data where I am the data subject to a 3rd party such as Newman and Company Ltd.

Therefore Take Notice that I require that you cease from processing within 7 days of the receipt by you of this notice or else that you do not begin to process any personal data of which I am the subject insofar as that processing involves the communication or passing of personal data of which I am the subject to any third party.

 

As you do not have, and never have had, my consent to process any data where I am the data subject I require destruction of any data you hold where I am the data subject. I also require a certificate of destruction showing

• Date of destruction
  
• Description of records or Record series disposed of
  
• Inclusive dates covered
  
• Method of destruction
  
• Name of person the records where destroyed by
  
• Name of Witness to destruction
  
• Name of Department Manager

This Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which may already have been caused and that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this notice would violate the fourth, first and sixth principles of The Data Protection Act 1998 to do so would be unwarranted.

 

 

Alphageek

Dated this 9th day of June in the year two thousand and seven.

 

 

 

[Footer] via royal mail recorded delivery tracking number XXX

page x of x

[/Footer]

 

 

 

 

[Alphageek]

I ameneded the letter slightly and posted it this morning.

 

Notice pursuant to s.10 of The Data Protection Act 1998.

Re: Amex account no. 0000

Newman reference: 0000

Account holder. Alphageek

Address. My address

Whereas I have been in correspondence with American Express Services Europe Limited since 1997, they and Newman and Company Limited have failed to produce a correctly executed agreement between myself and American Express Services Europe Limited implying my consent to process any data where I am the data subject. Without such consent, American Express Services Europe Limited had no authority to disclose any data where I am the data subject to a 3rd party such as Newman and Company Ltd.

Therefore Take Notice that I require that you cease from processing within 7 days of the receipt by you of this notice or else that you do not begin to process any personal data of which I am the subject insofar as that processing involves the communication or passing of personal data of which I am the subject to any third party.

 

As you do not have, and never have had, my consent to process any data where I am the data subject I require destruction of any data you hold where I am the data subject. I also require a certificate of destruction showing

• Date of destruction
  
• Description of records or Record series disposed of
  
• Inclusive dates covered
  
• Method of destruction
  
• Name of person the records where destroyed by
  
• Name of Witness to destruction
  
• Name of Department Manager

Additionally, I require a quarterly written statement that no data has been processed by you where I am the data subject.

 

This Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which may already have been caused and that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this notice would violate the fourth, first and sixth principles of The Data Protection Act 1998 to do so would be unwarranted.

 

Failure to comply with this request under the Data Protection Act 1998 will result in the matter being referred to the Information Commissioner.

 

I expect to hear from you within 10 working days from the date of this letter. If you do not reply, it will be taken that you have failed to comply with this notice and I will pursue my legal rights without further notice.

 

Yours faithfully.

 

[Alphageek]

Let's see what we have today. Ah, yes a letter from my friends at the DCA.

 

Dear Alphageek,

 

Further to your letter dated 11th June.

 

I enclose a copy of our internal complaints procedure but I am taking the opportunity to respond to your letter today.

 

We have been dealing with you on this matter since MONTH 200x and in the intervening period have not on any occasion passed information regarding your account to a third party.

 

For the avoidance of doubt please note we do not pass information to credit reference agencies therefore any action taken by this company will not have had a detrimental effect on your credit rating.

 

We trust you will continue to discharge the debt by monthly instalments and that over the course of the next seven days we will receive your overdue instalment of £x so as to avoid any Legal Action being undertaken by our specialist in-house team.

 

Should you have any further issues please do not hesitate to contact me directly.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Mr L.Sommerville

American Express Team Manager

NEWMAN & COMPANY

Oooh, I've got the team manager looking after me now!

 

Their internal complaints procedure was a stupid looking flowchart authored in May 2007 and bearing the moniker "Complaints process version 1"

 

Aw, I feel all special now. It looks like they invented it just for me