A+L Card Debt sold to LINK

[The Phantom]

Hi,

 

I haven't actually received anything from MBNA so not sure what you received and what it looks like

Have a read of this thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/72811-mbna-properly-executed-agreements.html

Knowing about MBNA what I do I think what you have been sent is most likely also just an application made to look like an agreement, but read through the above thread and if necessary post with info on what exactly they sent you so people can have a ponder about it

[The Phantom]

Good morning everyone

Have just had my mail and a letter from LINK saying they are now the current OWNER of the outstanding debt as MBNA has assigned it to them and they require the full amount immediately and any payments has to be made to them (not to MBNA)

They are advising me to take legal advice on this matter and / o phone them on *********

I will send them the CCA letter stating I do not acknowledge any debt to them (which I don't as they bought an unenforceable debt anyway)

[The Phantom]

Good morning everyone

Have just had my mail and a letter from LINK saying they are now the current OWNER of the outstanding debt as MBNA has assigned it to them and they require the full amount immediately and any payments has to be made to them (not to MBNA)

They are advising me to take legal advice on this matter and / o phone them on *********

I will send them the CCA letter stating I do not acknowledge any debt to them (which I don't as they bought an unenforceable debt anyway)

[The Phantom]

Hi there, CCA request to Link posted today

Heard nothing from MBNA, they never sent me anything (neither application nor agreement) Just a letter saying they are looking into my "complaint"

[The Phantom]

I am also still waiting for MBNA to refund approx £300.- in unlawful charges, but when I requested to see the original agreement they never sent it, so they rendered the agreement unenforceable and then had the nerve to simply sell it to Link. So will see if LINK can provide an original agreement if even the original creditor wasn't able to

I have no intention of making life easy for them in any way

[The Phantom]

I think they must be - the agreement became unenforceable 05.04.07 (12 + 30 days) , they sold it 10.04.07 to Link

I have informed TS which are supposed to look into it , but haven't heard anything from them either

To be honest, I don't even know what "complaint" MBNA's letter is referring to, I had so many issues with them:

- s85 non compliance (never heard anything from them with regards to it, and as they didn't deny it and I served them with a default notice, they must have accepted it

- CCA s77/78 defaulted after 42 days, letter sent to their legal department informing them payments would stop

- refund of unlawful charges of approx £300.-, they offered £75.- - I declined

nothing heard since

 

So their letter could be with regards to any or all of the above, it made no reference, so I haven't got a clue. Their promise to give me a full response within so many days is rubbish anyway, as that time has come and gone as well without any further correspondence

 

So I am concentrating on LINK now who have crept out of the woodwork and have sent them a CCA last week-end

 

I suppose they will reply with a standard letter telling me

a) they don't have to supply the original agreement as the original agreement was terminated by the original creditor

b) the fee for supplying it is £5.-

That is what other people have told me anyway, so I am waiting for that standard letter now

[The Phantom]

I personally haven't heard of them

Have you tried a Site search ? Or post their name in the DCA (Debt collecting agencies) forum ?

[The Phantom]

Got a letter from MBNA today regarding my charges claim.

They blah blah on about that I agreed to the terms and conditions and I am expected to adhere to them and on they go for about half a page, but then they say as a goodwill gesture they will be telling LINK to reduce the outstanding amount by another £192.- (with the previous refund they have allegedly credited to the account that would make the refund complete) However, as I haven't had a statement from MBNA for a while nor anything from LINK I don't know if they really refunded it or not.

They go on to say that they won't remove any defaults.

They have still not sent any agreement as requested and the debt is long unenforceable but they don't appear to care much about it.

Anyway, as I am dealing with LINK now and have CCA'd them I will leave MBNA for now and concentrate on the issue with LINK. As MBNA has defaulted and didn't produce the agreement I trust LINK won't come up with anything either and then they can shoulder the consequences of CCA non compliance.

They have so far not responded to my CCA request

[The Phantom]

Reply received from the OFT today

They would like me to send them all relating documents regarding MBNA's breaches and regarding sale of unenforceable debt including a full description of what has happened

They also sent me a few forms to fill out and return to them and gave me a file or case number

They also said although they normally do not act on individual's complaints as such , sometimes depending on the severity of breaches or offences they may contact the lender or company on individual's cases

So they have asked me to fill out a consent form that they can investigate and make enquiries on my behalf into my account (TS wanted me to fill out something similar at the time)

 

So I will prepare the documents and send them of to the lady at OFT

You never know , what do they say at Tesco's "every little helps"

So here we go

[The Phantom]

Received a letter from LINK today (no agreement) (today is the deadline for the first 12 working days after CCA request) so from today they have another 30 days

They say they have requested a copy of my agreement from MBNA and a copy of the MOST RECENT terms and conditions the account was operated under (I thought the terms & conditions are part of the original agreement and must therefore be of the time the agreement was made ?)

If MBNA charges them for this agreement they will pass this cost on to me

(I paid my pound, do I have to pay more than that ?)

And they have put my account on hold for 2 weeks for me to contact the office to provide further details. (??)

I hate to tell them, but this is on hold until they provide the agreement with all the prescribed terms on it, I also hate to tell them MBNA has already defaulted on my CCA request earlier this year, selling them an unenforceable debt and may not be able to dig out a proper agreement for them

I am in two minds whether to send them a reply or not

[The Phantom]

Many thanks - reading between the lines of their letter, they are fully aware of their legal obligations. Their letter arrived dead on the 12th working day after they received my first request. In there they state it can take up to 30 days to provide me with the information.

The only incorrect thing is that they believe they can charge me more than £1.- and that they can put the account on hold for only 2 weeks if they haven't got an agreement and that the agreement can be sent with new terms and conditions, when it should be the original ones.

Anyway, as MBNA could not (or didn't) provide the agreement and sold the debt instead illegally I have some hope that LINK will not be able to come up with anything either.

The problem is I am soooo tempted to write them a letter and show them the proverbial finger, but I am still restraining myself

[The Phantom]

Nope - silence.

Criminal default (12 + 30) on 23.06. (as that is a Saturday I think they have until the following Monday 25.06)

I have written them to advise them I will not accept any more than £1.- for the provision of the document as is set out in the relevant law and that I will not enter into any further communication with them until they have fully complied with their legal obligations.

They have not replied, never had a phone call and nothing else really.

Days are just ticking down

As the debt was not with MBNA originally but with A&L and the card is quite old (mid 1990s) I somewhat think the original agreement is no longer, but we will have to wait and see....

[The Phantom]

Mine was also an A&L card from 93.

They tried to fob me off with some current terms and conditions

 

The new CCA amendments are not applying retrospectively, only to agreements taken out after April this year, so they probably hope some people will fall for it if they waffle on about it

I wonder how long it will take until these debt collecting agencies click on to the fact that MBNA is selling unenforceable debts left right and center....

[The Phantom]

And as far as I know the terms and conditions they supply must be the ones that were valid when the agreement was taken out initially

[The Phantom]

No, they never replied to me at all regarding my CCA request or s85 default

notice. (I know they received the CCA request as they cashed the £1.- cheque)

They defaulted and then simply sold the debt to LINK who is now also 1 week away from criminal default (12 & 30)

I am pretty sure they do not have the original agreement anymore and in your case probably the same.

In your case they try to blabber themselves out of it, hoping you will buy something of it, in my case they are just doing nothing

[The Phantom]

Have had a look at your thread - it appears they did a bulk mailing of old agreements (applications) recently. I have still not received anything from LINK. I suppose MBNA would have to send it to Link first ?

If they posted it to Link it would probably take a few days longer to reach me

I will let you know if Link manages to get it to me before Monday, they have a few more days before going into criminal default:shock:

[The Phantom]

Time's up - nothing from Link in the post today

Criminal default stage reached now

 

Will report them just as I have reported MBNA (to OFT and their local Trading Standards Office)

[The Phantom]

Reported to OFT and Lambeth Trading Standards

[The Phantom]

Ha, you could very well be right there. In my case they simply sold the debt and made it someone else's problem (i.e. Link's) and now LINK has defaulted as well

This is what may be happening in your case as well at some point, that they will sell your accounts off and you suddenly hear from Debt Collecting Agencies, but you simply send them the same CCA request and point out you do not acknowledge any debt to them and then sit back and wait

I also believe MBNA has got a huge problem because what they kept in their files and archives as agreements are only the initial pre-contractual application forms and more and more people are switching on to this

Even if they send us something chances are high it will be an unenforceable document, but of course this is not our problem

[The Phantom]

They will most likely come up with ........nothing

(hee hee hee)

[The Phantom]

I have still heard nothing more from LINK with regards to this matter

Should I write to them and ask them to confirm the matter is closed as they obviously have no agreement for this

I have found a good template from Yaffsimone1 which would need modest alteration but would in effect be usable

 

I wrote to you on the XXXXX requesting a true, signed copy of any credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account (see enclosed).This is my right under Sections 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 on payment of the statutory fee of £1.00. This payment was included with my original request.

 

Under the terms of the above Act, a creditor has 12 working days to provide the requested document. Should they fail to do this, they have a further calendar month to rectify this default. Failure to comply within these timescales is a criminal offence.

 

Both of these deadlines have now passed and I have received nothing in relation to my request apart from being pursued by your dormant debt collection agencies GCC and Nationwide Debt Recovery. This can lead me to only one conclusion, that being that no signed credit agreement exists in relation to this account.

 

As I am sure you are aware, an agreement that does not contain all of the prescribed terms, and/or is not signed by the debtor, is completely unenforceable, even in a court of law. This will be a complete defence to any court action that you may consider taking.

 

On the advice of the Financial Ombudsman, I am now requesting a final decision in this matter from you. Should this decision not meet with my satisfaction, then I will pursue the matter through the Ombudsman. The maximum timescale for you to give a final response to any complaint is 8 weeks. This time runs from the date of my original complaint, in this case that is the request for a true copy of the credit agreement. Therefore, you must provide me with a final response in this matter, including your proposed actions for this account, by XXXX

 

Please note, you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with the credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Under the Data Protection Act I have principled rights in that

 

 

(Schedule I)

 

1. Personal data shall be processed fairly and lawfully

2. Personal data shall be obtained only for one or more specified and lawful purposes, and shall not be further processed in any manner incompatible with that purpose or those purposes

 

(Schedule II)

 

1. The subject has given his consent.

2. The processing is necessary

a. For the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party.

 

The fact that you cannot provide me with a copy of the agreement negates any Notice of Default being served on me, as required by the conditions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Incidentally, I cannot recollect receipt of the said documentation. If the documentation were to be produced as you are aware the default notice cancels any original terms and conditions and as such cancels any right to share my information without my consent.There has never been any regulated agreement in relation to this account, and therefore you have never had my consent to process my data. I also do not see how you can state that you have a legitimate interest in processing my data as we have never had any contract that would enable you to do this.

 

Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore, you should remember that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

• You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
  
• You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.
  
• You may not pass this account to any third party.
  
• You may not register any further information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.
  
• You must remove the default notice you have placed on my credit file.

I look forward to your final decision on this complaint by XXXX This should include your proposed actions in relation to the lack of a credit agreement

 

Not sure whether to do this or just leave it ?

[The Phantom]

No, they have been in criminal default since 25.06 (MBNA also never replied to my CCA and sold the debt whilst in criminal default)

It would appear the agreement is not available anymore

[The Phantom]

Yes, I know

The letter would need adapting for individual's circumstances, ie. make sure you leave out everything that does not apply

[The Phantom]

Hi all

 

got a letter from MBNA today (not LINK !!) sending me a one sheet copy of something they think is the original agreement. I will try and post it once I figured out how to do it.

It is dated 1998 and signed by me, it is not signed by them, just stamped as received July.1998. It is not headed , there is just a blank black space along the top which probably covers the original header "Application for a Credit Card "or something like this. 95% is illegible, I can read just about what I filled in, but not the actual writing of the document itself.

They enclosed copies of current statements and new terms of conditions which are from when MBNA took the card over from A&L and already show the new revised penalty charges of £12.-, not the ones from 1998.

Could someone look at it a bit later, I will advise when it is up and running

 

Cheers

[The Phantom]

OK - here it is

Please note I blanked out everything I filled in (personal data)

The copy is as poor as it appears by the way

The interesting thing is, all my personal data is hand filled by myself when I filled out the application, but the field with my surname is TYPED by ..er whom ? It looks so odd, all fields are hand filled apart from my surname which is typed in as MRS PHANTOM

This one sheet as seen in the scan is accompanied by current T&Cs from MBNA (already showing the recent new penalty charges of £12.-) and a few copy statements of the account

Any ideas ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v456/Nicole99/MBNA-2.jpg