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    • Hi, the vehicle went to Audi Chingford on Thursday 13th May. I did state beforehand that I only wanted a diagnostic. The technician out of courtesy opened the drain letting huge deposits of water escape the seals. Video evidence was provided via AUDI cam. The link for the audi cam has been forwarded to BMW and Motonovo. I spoke to branch manager explained the situation and he stated he would sent me an email outlining the issue. Audi state this is not really an issue and more of a design flaw. However, the seals still have water ingress. I purchased the vehicle with £0 deposit on a 60 months HP plan for £520.00. The vehicle total was £21000. I did not go for any extended warranty. I live almost 70 miles away from the aftersales centre in Peterborough. I have previously uploaded the document I forwarded to BMW however it was in word format. I have had to buy a new tyre almost three days after purchasing vehicle. BMW still have not compensated me for the v62 cost as they said they would. 
    • I would suggest that you stop trying to rely on legal theory – as you understand it. Firstly, because we are dealing with practical/pragmatic situations and at a low value level where these arguments tend not to work. Secondly, because you clearly have misunderstood the assessment of quantum where there are breaches of obligations. The formula that you have cited above is the method of loss calculation in torts. In contract it is entirely different. The law of obligations generally attempts to remedy the breach. This means that in tort, damages seek to put you into the position you would have been in had the breach not occurred. In other words it returns you to your starting position – point zero. Contract damages attend put you into the position that you would have been had the breach not occurred but this is not your starting position, contract damages assume that the agreement in dispute had actually been carried out. This puts you into your final position. You sold an item for £XXX. Your expectation was that you your item would be correctly delivered and that you would be the beneficiary of £XXX. Your expectation loss is the amount that you sold the item for and that is all you are entitled to recover. If you want, you can try to sue for the larger sum – and we will help you. But if they ask for evidence of the value of the item as it was sold then I can almost guarantee that either you will be obliged to settle for the lesser sum – or else a judge will give you judgement but for the lesser sum. This will put you to the position that you would have been had there been no breach of contract. I understand from you now that when you dispatch the item you declared the retail cost to you and not your expected benefit of £XXX. To claim for the retail value in the circumstances would offend the rules relating to betterment. If you want to do it then we will help you – but don't be surprised if you take a tumble.  
    • I was caught speeding 3 times in the same week, on the same road. All times were 8-12mph higher than the limit. I was offered the course for the first offense and I now need to accept the other 2 offenses. I just want to be ready for what might come. Will I get the £100 fine and 3 points for each of them or do I face something more severe?  These are my only offenses in 8 years of driving.
    • I'll get my letter drafted this evening. Its an item I sold, which I'm also concerned about, as whilst I don't have my original purchase receipt (the best I have is my credit card statement showing a purchase from Car Audio Centre), I do unfortunately have the eBay listing where I sold it for much less. But as I said before this is now a question of compensation: true compensation would seek to put me back into the position I was in before the loss ie: that title would remain with me until my buyer has accepted this, and so compensation should be that which would be needed to replace the lost item. But in the world of instant electronic payment, it could be argued that as I had already been paid, the title to the goods had already transferred, and I was required to refund the buyer after the loss. And so, despite my declared value being the retail price - that which is needed to return me to my pre-sales position, the compensatory value should be the value I sold it for, which being a second-hand item from a private seller is lower. I still believe that I should be claiming for the item's full value, rather than how much I sold it for, as this is the same for insurance: we don't insure the value we paid, but rather the value of the item to put us back into the position we would be in if we ever needed to claim. Its for the loss adjuster to argue the toss
    • amusing that 'bad economic judgement on behalf of prior party ISN'T a major reason to wingers to move to deform yet immigration is, where record levels of such has been driven by the right wings terrible brexit and the later incompetent dog whistle 'proposals largely driven to whistle to the right wingnuts Just seems to confirm the are clueless numpties 'wetting their own shoes   Has farage bought a property in Clacton yet?   yet concern for the NHS is listed as a major issue even by those saying they are moving to deform  
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

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      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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PC23 v Natwest: Help needed **WON**


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Hi,

 

I am at stage 2 - but using a standard letter published by my local paper. I am claiming just under £8k, and sent the following letter...

 

Penalty & unfair charges – request for refund for XXXXXXX

(Sort code: XXXXX Account no: XXXXXXX)

According to my records I have been charged £7870.50 in paid referral fees and charges for items returned unpaid since 14th February 2001.

 

0n April 5, 2006, the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) announced that default charges which are set at more than £12 will be presumed to be unfair and unenforceable in terms of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). Charges above this sum will be subject to legal action by the OFT (press release 68/06 – online here: Current credit card default charges unfair

 

The OFT stated that a charge is not fair simply because it is below this sum and I believe that a reasonable charge would be 50 pence for the reasons set out below. Please refund my charges as a matter of urgency.

 

I would respectfully submit that if your organisation does not agree to immediately refund all unfair charges applied to my account, it will not meet the “fit and proper person” test to hold a consumer credit licence under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In that eventuality, I will submit a 1974 Act complaint to the OFT.

 

Separately, I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable at common law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co. Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498, the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79.

 

Your charges do not reflect any actual loss, instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme. In particular, charges were applied after I entered into a transaction(s) without sufficient funds in my account. However, payment was declined by you and therefore, actual loss is the cost of automatically sending me a computer-generated letter. I would respectfully submit that is valued at no more than 50 pence.

 

UK banks have recently given evidence to the House of Commons Treasury Committee on how bank charges are calculated: “The costs are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges.” (second report, 25 January, 2005, paragraph 50 – online here: House of Commons - Treasury - Second Report

 

Accordingly, the charges applied to my account are not a reasonable pre-estimate of the bank’s loss in relation to my account. No one has had to look at my account or telephone me. No one has had to collect anything. Your charges would appear to represent a device to recover global losses (for example, loan defaulters, bad debt write-off, including commercial lending in, and outwith, the UK).

 

Please refund all charges applied to my account from the start of 2001 within the next seven days. I reserve the right to commence court proceedings without any further notice and to seek an additional award for distress and inconvenience, together with legal expenses.

Yours faithfully

 

I have had no response and it's been two weeks and am a bit unsure of my next move. There is a third letter in the local rag, but I am not sure whether I can use this as it informs the banks of a claim (but in the instructions says only claims up to £5k can be made in small claims court). Any advice would be appreciated...

 

Paul

BATTLES WON/ONGOING

NatWest Bank- £8k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

Capital One - £2k+ ** SETTLED IN FULL**

Cahoot - £255 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Abbey National - £385 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Central Trust - £3k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

GMAC RFC - £2k **SETTLED IN FULL**

Now going after Natwest (again) and Halifax.

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Sent it to my branch.

BATTLES WON/ONGOING

NatWest Bank- £8k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

Capital One - £2k+ ** SETTLED IN FULL**

Cahoot - £255 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Abbey National - £385 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Central Trust - £3k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

GMAC RFC - £2k **SETTLED IN FULL**

Now going after Natwest (again) and Halifax.

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I did think you might. I would use an LBA from here to send to NatWest with a schedule of charges(was that sent with the previous letters?)

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No... My next step was to inform the bank I intend to take legal action unless charges are refunded (and include a copy of the schedule of charges). Are there Natwest specifc LBAs? As the ones I have seen just say insert address and I assumed I should just send it via the branch? Should I resend letter 2?

BATTLES WON/ONGOING

NatWest Bank- £8k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

Capital One - £2k+ ** SETTLED IN FULL**

Cahoot - £255 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Abbey National - £385 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Central Trust - £3k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

GMAC RFC - £2k **SETTLED IN FULL**

Now going after Natwest (again) and Halifax.

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Re send the L.B.A from the templates section here with schedule of charges to Customer Relations Unit Borehamwood and I think that you will be in victory row.

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Thanks Nattie. I have done exactly that, but I have updated my charges. What should I do next, start preparing to launch court action? And can I still go via county court even though my claim is over £5k?

BATTLES WON/ONGOING

NatWest Bank- £8k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

Capital One - £2k+ ** SETTLED IN FULL**

Cahoot - £255 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Abbey National - £385 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Central Trust - £3k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

GMAC RFC - £2k **SETTLED IN FULL**

Now going after Natwest (again) and Halifax.

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I sent my letter of last week, now just waiting for 14 days to lapse. Is there anything else I can be doing in the meantime??

BATTLES WON/ONGOING

NatWest Bank- £8k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

Capital One - £2k+ ** SETTLED IN FULL**

Cahoot - £255 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Abbey National - £385 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Central Trust - £3k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

GMAC RFC - £2k **SETTLED IN FULL**

Now going after Natwest (again) and Halifax.

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Share on other sites

Stuart Highley has written asking me to give Natwest more time to respond. My 14 days since sending the LBA are up on Monday. Any advice would be appreciated...

BATTLES WON/ONGOING

NatWest Bank- £8k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

Capital One - £2k+ ** SETTLED IN FULL**

Cahoot - £255 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Abbey National - £385 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Central Trust - £3k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

GMAC RFC - £2k **SETTLED IN FULL**

Now going after Natwest (again) and Halifax.

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Am filing at court on Wednesday. Have filled in N1 and copied three times. Do I give this (plus schedule x 3) all to the court? And do I need to send copies to the bank?

BATTLES WON/ONGOING

NatWest Bank- £8k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

Capital One - £2k+ ** SETTLED IN FULL**

Cahoot - £255 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Abbey National - £385 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Central Trust - £3k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

GMAC RFC - £2k **SETTLED IN FULL**

Now going after Natwest (again) and Halifax.

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Share on other sites

Thanks guys... here goes.

BATTLES WON/ONGOING

NatWest Bank- £8k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

Capital One - £2k+ ** SETTLED IN FULL**

Cahoot - £255 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Abbey National - £385 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Central Trust - £3k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

GMAC RFC - £2k **SETTLED IN FULL**

Now going after Natwest (again) and Halifax.

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Have I messed up? I sent my LBA with the simple excel spreadsheet requesting charges plus simple interest at 8% APR (but no contractual interest)... I have just re-read guidelines and they say you should NOT do this - but ask for contractual interest.

 

However, since the 14 days are up... I have filed my N1 including charges, interest at 8% APR, daily interest until settlement and court costs - but should I have included contractual interest and therefore have I messed things up before getting to court!? :confused:

BATTLES WON/ONGOING

NatWest Bank- £8k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

Capital One - £2k+ ** SETTLED IN FULL**

Cahoot - £255 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Abbey National - £385 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Central Trust - £3k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

GMAC RFC - £2k **SETTLED IN FULL**

Now going after Natwest (again) and Halifax.

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Share on other sites

No you havent messed up. The general concensus of opinion is when sending LBA and Prelim dont include the 8%. You can say contractual and include them but dont do the 8%. Well thats the recommendation, but even if you asked for 8% it wont be thrown out. Your'e ok. The fact is this, if the bank had come back to you and offered you just your charges alone, you would have had to accept, but if they didnt come back and offer you your full charges on their own then your ok to have filed for the 8% at court, even though you asked for it in your prelim and LBA. Its ok. Dont worry. Its fine. I did exactly the same thing, because the Martin Lewis website says to do that. I only found this CAG just after I had done my prelim, so it was then I realised I shouldnt have asked for 8% from the outset, but Nattie assured me it was ok. I hadnt messed up. That is just the recommended course of action, but its not set in stone. You will be fine. Dont worry.

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did you at any point tell the bank you were claiming contractual interest, this must be done from the start, as for adding s69 interest you only do this when filing a claim at court, i wouldnt worry too much about the spreadsheet sent with the lba now, because you have now filed,

I won £5289 heres how

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/40703-saint-luco-natwest.html

 

 

ITS NOT WHETHER YOU WON OR LOST, BUT HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME THAT MATTERS. ( OBVIOUSLY A LOSER THEN):D :D :D

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Many thanks fendywether - that's reassuring :). I have other things (credit cards, other banks etc) to do. Should I ask for charges plus contractual interest... then only add 8% when I go to court? And should I add 8% instead of contractual interest (or as well as) :confused:.

BATTLES WON/ONGOING

NatWest Bank- £8k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

Capital One - £2k+ ** SETTLED IN FULL**

Cahoot - £255 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Abbey National - £385 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Central Trust - £3k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

GMAC RFC - £2k **SETTLED IN FULL**

Now going after Natwest (again) and Halifax.

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Saint Luco - No haven't mentioned contractual interest at all... should I be fussed about it?

BATTLES WON/ONGOING

NatWest Bank- £8k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

Capital One - £2k+ ** SETTLED IN FULL**

Cahoot - £255 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Abbey National - £385 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Central Trust - £3k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

GMAC RFC - £2k **SETTLED IN FULL**

Now going after Natwest (again) and Halifax.

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Share on other sites

On banks, you can ask for contractual interest with prelim and lba but not 8%, and then when you file at court, you have a choice, you can either go for contractual or 8%, the choice is yours. Contractual is a bit more involved to do, than 8%, Im not that brave I just stuck to 8% but theres a few stories on here if you read of people who have gone for contractual and won. And some pending at the mo. Just read read read on this site. You will soon know what to do. xxx

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Thanks Fendy and Saint!

BATTLES WON/ONGOING

NatWest Bank- £8k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

Capital One - £2k+ ** SETTLED IN FULL**

Cahoot - £255 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Abbey National - £385 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Central Trust - £3k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

GMAC RFC - £2k **SETTLED IN FULL**

Now going after Natwest (again) and Halifax.

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I have filed my claim for just under £10k at the County Court. What should I do next, and am I liable for any more fees and costs if things go pear-shaped??? I have seen £750 mentioned, but can't find this on the court website anywhere?

BATTLES WON/ONGOING

NatWest Bank- £8k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

Capital One - £2k+ ** SETTLED IN FULL**

Cahoot - £255 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Abbey National - £385 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Central Trust - £3k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

GMAC RFC - £2k **SETTLED IN FULL**

Now going after Natwest (again) and Halifax.

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Share on other sites

as its outside of small claims, if you lose you are liable. but they wont even go into court

I won £5289 heres how

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/40703-saint-luco-natwest.html

 

 

ITS NOT WHETHER YOU WON OR LOST, BUT HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME THAT MATTERS. ( OBVIOUSLY A LOSER THEN):D :D :D

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Thanks Saint. Is there anything I need to be doing at this moment in preparation of court hearing... or just waiting.

BATTLES WON/ONGOING

NatWest Bank- £8k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

Capital One - £2k+ ** SETTLED IN FULL**

Cahoot - £255 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Abbey National - £385 **SETTLED IN FULL**

Central Trust - £3k+ **SETTLED IN FULL**

GMAC RFC - £2k **SETTLED IN FULL**

Now going after Natwest (again) and Halifax.

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