WWW.247MONEY.COM Finance - Serious fault with used car after only 3 months of ownership

[MRMH01]

Hello, hope you’re all well.

 

We purchased a 2012 BMW 5 series with 95k miles on the clock around 3 months ago (end of July). Everything has been good with the car, until I noticed a noise coming from the engine bay when parked next to another vehicle (with the windows down). 

 

I opened the bonnet to locate the noise (a metallic rattling sound, almost like someone is playing a tambourine) at the rear of the engine. From further research and collecting several videos of the noise and sending them to various BMW specialists, the issue would appear (without having a formal diagnosis done) to be with the timing chain (apparently a common issue on the 2.0 diesel (N47 engines), the common consensus is that the timing chain guides are worn, and if not rectified would likely cause the chain to fail. 

 

My issues are as follows;

 

• I’ve stopped using the vehicle because there’s a real risk that the timing chain could fail, causing the engine to be destroyed, at which point I likely wouldn’t have a claim.

 

• To have the problem diagnosed would likely cost hundreds of pounds because it requires the engine to be removed from the car to access the timing chain. I don’t see why I should have to foot this cost. So how should I go around exercising my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 with respect to having this problem diagnosed at the dealers cost? I appreciate the problem will likely exceed £1,300 to repair, and that the dealer is probably not going to want to pay this. 

 

• The car is on hire purchase, and technically doesn’t belong to us, what rights do we have if the dealer doesn’t play ball? If we were to seek a repair and this gets refused, do we then reject the vehicle and hand it back to the finance company? We contacted the dealer last week who still hasn’t replied to us. We were very polite and reported the issue asking for help, they’re a highly recommended and highly rated small car dealership.

 

I’m presuming our next steps should be to stop using the car, notify the finance company that there’s a major issue with the car? We would rather not have to reject the car, however this issue clearly needs to be addressed asap, and if no party want to accept responsibility, I’m presuming we look to reject the vehicle?

 

Many thanks for your help. 

[MRMH01]

Car cost us £7,995 (was high specification compared to other 520d’s), we paid zero deposit purely because it wouldn’t have dented the monthly payment much, finance company is 247 Money (tailored towards those with no credit history to some negative history). 
 

Dealer I’m keeping anonymous for the time being, they have an excellent reputation on social media and review websites so I’m hopeful they’ll pull through, of course this will all change if I make no progress, hope you don’t mind this. 
 

If I approach the finance company tomorrow and state the issue, because I don’t have a formal diagnosis of the issue, if they want to problem diagnosed, how would I be best off going about this?
 

A visit to any specialist or main BMW dealer will likely see me needing to part with hundreds of pounds simply to get the fault diagnosed. The car has a full BMW service history and I honestly thought the timing chain issue affected older BMW 2.0L models. 

[MRMH01]

Many thanks for your replies.

 

We went with them as the interest rate payable wasn’t bad given our financial backgrounds, our previous car was a lease vehicle that I had since new which went back in September due to the lease period expiring, hence why we ended up financing something larger (the lease car was a Seat Leon which was somewhat smaller), the monthly payments on the 520d are less than our previous lease, so it made sense to continue with the finance. 

 

I shall get a letter drafted up and sent off to both the finance company and car dealership (will send via recorded delivery), I’ll also send a copy via email. 

 

I just wanted to give the dealer ample opportunity to sort this out before naming them, so I can say I tried my hardest to be fair with them. If I hear nothing within 7 days then I’ll name them here. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by dx100uk
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[MRMH01]

Just a quick update.

247 money called and have instructed the dealer to “inspect and repair the defects as required under the Consumer Rights Act 2015”, their words not mine, however they’re communicating with the dealer.

 

How does rejection work if things don’t go to plan?

The car is owned by the finance company, so in the instance of rejection, I’m presuming we notify both the dealer and finance company and make the vehicle available for collection to the finance company? I’m honestly hoping we don’t need to reject the car though. 

 

Finance company are currently very supportive of our situation. I took the car for another inspection at another garage who have mentioned the same thing, timing chain guides are likely excessively worn (a BMW defect that plagues the N47 series engine), and that the Dual Mass Flywheel is worn causing noise when accelerating through the gears (most noticeable in 4th gear). 

 

Total cost for work is probably around £2.5k to £3k (DMF can be done when the chain is done because the engine comes apart from the gearbox when doing this job), I sense the dealership is probably not going to play ball here due to the cost. 

 

My other concern is,

is what if the dealer takes the car to some third party garage that they’re “pals” with in the trade, and they claim there’s nothing wrong with the car?

 

Am I best getting some kind of written report from either BMW or a BMW specialist to note the problems? 

Edited November 23, 2021 by dx100uk
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[MRMH01]

Thank you for your replies so far. 
Just a quick update.

Finance company has arranged inspection/repair with the dealership, however they want to me to find a garage that will work on the vehicle and send them the quotation for work and depending on the quote, depends on the next steps. 

The terms are it has to be a small VAT registered garage, having approached 4 garages in my local area, all 4 have said that they will not undertake the work, mainly due to space issues (because it’s an engine out job). I maintain that it’s a job for a specialist or a BMW dealer to undertake, if the quotation for work is too expensive then further options will be explored (their words not mine), I’m not sure what arbitrary figure they’re working on though.  

I’m going to message them today and explain that no small garage I’ve approached will touch this job, either the garages are too busy and booked up into February, they don’t have room, it’s not a job they do, it’s just an annoyance having to write emails and chase up garages for quotes, if they’re going to impose terms then I’m going to ask that they arrange the work, not me, the CRA 2015 specifically states that a repair should be done with the least inconvenience to the consumer also. 
 

I’m grateful that they’re assisting, however it’s me who’s having to do all the leg work.

Should I give them a time scale of 2 weeks to get work underway, otherwise we’ll reject the vehicle?

I can see the dealer taking the car back personally over having to pay a 4 figure sum for a repair. 

[MRMH01]

Hello, hope you’re all well and looking forward to Christmas. I haven’t written anything further here because there’s been nothing worth noting until recently. 

 

I’ll try to keep it brief. 

 

So far;

 

• Fault occurred with car on finance a few months after purchase, we notified dealership and finance company that we want a repair as per s.23 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

 

• Finance company offered a 50/50 contribution with the dealer for a repair, the only terms are that I find a garage, said garage is VAT registered, said garage must not be a main BMW dealer or BMW specialist. Whilst it’s not for me to arrange the repair, I thought I’d try to help.

 

• I’ve approached around 10 local garages (within 30 minutes driving time of me), all of which have essentially refused the job (because it’s an engine out job with around 20 hours of labour). 

 

• I contacted finance company on Wednesday to state that I had been unsuccessful in finding a garage, and asked that they search and arrange the repair with the dealer (as per s.23). 

 

• I received what can only be the most passive aggressive email possible, basically stating they’re doing it as a good will gesture, and that because I’m away with family in the Czech Republic until January 3rd, that they’re unsure whether the dealer will contribute, even though they’ve had a month to arrange a repair at this point. Car is still on driveway at home and should they arrange a repair the car can be driven to any garage by a family member who will be insured to drive the car etc.

 

• I’ve replied essentially stating that the Consumer Rights Act supersedes any “good will gesture”,  I’ve also noted that I’ve used another car at my own expense, using my own fuel in my own time to try and get a garage to take on the work (which I’m not required to do but did so to try and help everyone out). I’ve asked that they arrange the repair, otherwise I will have no choice other than to reject the vehicle as “not fit for purpose”, “not as described” and “not of a satisfactory quality”. The finance company also tried to allege that a timing chain failure is “wear and tear”, which of course is nonsense because timing chains in the F10 520d are made to last the life of the engine (there is no service period or inspection period for this component in any of the BMW service books/schedules). I understand that timing chain failure is common across the N47 series of Diesel engine due to poorly designed timing chain guides that are made from plastic. 

 

Would I be best rejecting the vehicle at this point? I’m no further to a repair then I was 1 month ago. I also find it strange how the finance company is communicating throughout and the dealership is not. 

 

Many thanks for your time as always! 

[MRMH01]

Many thanks for your quick response. 

 

My expenses at this point are negligible, it’s more the time I’ve spent trying to communicate with garages and drive the car to be looked at by mechanics (who have essentially diagnosed the issue as a timing chain guide issue, it’s not unusual for the guides to be broke when they’re making the noise this car is, at which point the engine is literally ticking time bomb). 

 

This really is a specialist job that would require a main dealer or BMW specialist, however the finance company doesn’t want me using any of these (which I guess they’re trying to get the work done for as cheap as possible), it would’ve been booked in and repaired if I could use a main dealer for the work, at this point it’s just unnecessary hassle. 

 

If I reject, am I correct in sending an email/letter to the finance company (who are the legal owner) or the dealership (who are the retailer)? I was unsure whether my case would be more with the finance company as a hirer of the vehicle versus the dealer who supplied the car to the finance company. It’s incredible how quickly the attitude of the finance company changed when I asked them to arrange the repair. 

 

[MRMH01]

Happy new year everyone! 

 

No further updates, have given the finance company until tomorrow to arrange a repair a few weeks back. No emails, no letters, just one attempt to call on the phone which we declined purely because everything needs to be in writing (in my opinion) and I said to correspond in writing only. 

 

As the deadline is tomorrow and direct debit is due to go on the 4th, should I write to them tomorrow morning rejecting the vehicle, and cancel the direct debit immediately? We’ve had no use of the car for at least the last 6 weeks incase it got worse, so I digress having to pay another payment when I’m going to fight for a refund. 

 

Genuinely disappointed they haven’t tried to get a repair arranged, I’ve given them nearly 2 months. 

[MRMH01]

Does the HP agreement become null and void (in a sense) when the vehicle is rejected?

I don’t mind taking a hit on my credit files temporarily if I can complain to the FOS and have the matter overruled (I.e HP agreement terminated, refund of HP payments, removal from credit file). 

 

I haven’t rejected it purely on the basis I wanted to demonstrate reasonableness on my behalf, as opposed going directly for the jugular (if that makes sense), there’s no way the finance company can argue unreasonableness when I’ve afforded them 8 weeks to arrange a repair.

 

Tomorrow is the deadline whereby I’ll reject the car and ask for a full refund of all paid HP payments, do you recommend signing the V5 over to the finance company? 

Edited January 2, 2022 by dx100uk
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[MRMH01]

 

In my initial email sent to them nearly 8 weeks ago I requested that they have the car repaired in accordance with s.23 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, this was also sent to the dealership. I’ve exercised my right clearly that I want the vehicle repaired (as rejection wasn’t possible due to being outside of the 30 day limit), I made it clear that this is a request under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, apologies if that wasn’t clear. 

 

In my last correspondence I simply requested that they repair the car (again), and explained that if they failed to do so, I will exercise my right to reject on the basis they’re refusing to put right the defects that exist with the vehicle, and tomorrow I will formally reject the vehicle. 

 

They’ve had 8 weeks to arrange a repair on the vehicle, contrary to s.23 which makes it clear a repair must be of the “least inconvenience to the consumer”. 

 

I couldn’t reject the car in November because the right to reject wasn’t available to me due to being over the 30 day period, I exercised my right to a repair in which they have failed to undertake. 

[MRMH01]

Just a quick update.

 

• Rejected the vehicle in Dec 2021.

 

• No response from 247Money until mid January 2022, telling me to stop quoting the Consumer Rights Act 2015, and that the rejection was refused. 

 

• Cancelled the direct debt in Jan 2022, the vehicle is clearly an integral part of the agreement and therefore rejection of the vehicle means the product/asset/collateral under the agreement is no longer being provided. Will not pay any more towards this vehicle that sits on my driveway unused due to a timing chain fault (just imagine if I used it and the chain snapped, the liability would fall on me). I absolutely will not pay anymore towards this vehicle that has a huge list of defects. 

 

• Default notice served on the 7th February 2022 giving until the 28th February 2022 to repay the amount due under the agreement. 

 

• Final response sent (but never received), opened a dispute with the Financial Ombudsman Service. 

 

I’m presuming they’ll default the agreement and repossess the vehicle (which would actually be doing us a favour), less than 1/3rd paid so they have the right to repossess without a court order (will gladly hand the keys over). 

 

Any thoughts on what to do next? 

[MRMH01]

13 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

I don't think there is any further advice we can give you.

You came here and gave a certain facts and we gave you certain advice.

You appear to have gone your own way anyway and now that you've opened up a dispute with the FOS, then I suppose you should wait for the outcome of their investigation – although you aren't bound to but it will certainly take quite a long time.
Glad to see that you are still protecting the reputation of the dealer. I'm sure they admire the loyalty.

I actually went and told the dealer that you were refusing to disclose identity on this forum and they laughed.
 

The dealership was “Used Cars of Somerset”, if you check out their Google Reviews, I’ve left a review with pictures and videos of the defects on the vehicle. 

[MRMH01]

Could anyone here give me a quick run down of what this term means in the Consumer Credit Agreement;

 

”…We give to you the terms implied by Section 8 of the Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act 1973 as to title and the terms implied by
the Consumer Rights Act 2015 as to correspondence with description and sample, satisfactory quality and fitness for purpose.”

 

I’m not familiar with the “Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act 1973”.

 

Many thanks!

[MRMH01]

Hello, hope you’re all well.

 

Just an update. 

 

• We still have the vehicle, the agreement hasn’t been defaulted or terminated yet (even though we’ve not made any payments since January). 

 

• After a lot of back and forth, the finance company agreed to pay for an independent inspection at a main dealer BMW workshop. 

 

• Workshop came back and the vehicle has £6,350 worth of urgent repairs, everything from rear brakes being worn to the point there’s no pads left, rear differential bushes are degraded completely, and of course the big one, the timing chain mechanism is defective and needs replacing, technician also stated that it’s best to have a new clutch fitted to the vehicle as the clutch is heavily worn and the gearbox will be detached from the vehicle so it makes sense to put a new clutch into the vehicle to avoid having to do this again in 5,000 to 10,000 miles. 

 

• Finance company has been really patronising and has said that they will only pay for the timing chain repair, and this is as a good will gesture without any admission of liability as they are of the opinion £5,000 timing chain replacements are “wear and tear”, even though BMW has admitted it’s defective and are contributing to the repair, I’ve declined this on the basis it’s not “good will” to withhold a repair for 7 months and try to pass it off as “wear and tear”, I want the finance company to admit they were wrong. 

 

• Finance company is refusing to put right the rear brakes (which the vehicle cannot be driven unless they’re done because the condition is dangerous, having seen the video of the rear brakes I’m disgusted at the condition they are in), the finance company will not repair the rear differential and will obviously not put a new clutch into the vehicle, expecting me to make £1,500ish in repairs out of my own pocket. 

 

• I’m unwilling to pay for any repair to this vehicle as we have had 4 months of use age out of it, it cost £8,000 and already has £6,350 worth of urgent repairs required, this clearly shows it was not fit for purpose, not as described and not of a satisfactory condition.

 

• Finance and supplying dealership are refusing the rectify the poorly done paint repairs that have peeled off both the front and rear bumpers, even though these were pre-agreed and part of the condition of sale. 

 

• Financial Ombudsman Service has not yet ruled on our dispute, however I now have an independent report that shows the vehicle was not fit for purpose, and the finance company/dealership should have repaired it when I made the request under s.23 of the CRA 2015 back in November 2021, they acted unlawfully and unfairly in refusing this, and refusing to carry out my rejection in January when they failed to repair the vehicle. 

 

• I’ve written back to the finance company refusing their proposal to have just the timing chain repaired, as I disagree with the premise of it being out of “good will” and “wear and tear”, I also believe that they are liable alongside the supplying dealership for other defects that could not possibly have occurred due to my very limited use of the vehicle.