Suzy H v GE Capital

[Suzy H]

Hi guys

 

Sent off two SAR letters by recorded delivery yesterday to :-

 

Data Protection Administration

GE Money

PO Box 700

Leeds

LS99 2BD

this is for a House of Fraser Card & Debenhams Card - both accounts were passed to 'Viking' for collection. I cleared off the full balance owed on both accounts and they closed them down.

I had those accounts for years so know there will be a lot of charges on both accounts. As always ... I will keep you posted

[Suzy H]

Hi sarahpp

 

Thanks for that - had a quick look at Glenn's thread Unfortunatly i'm in Scotland so can only claim back 5 years worth of charges but i'll see what they say and keep you posted.

 

(If the charges, however, exceed £750 - I may just try for the 6 years worth of statements and go through mcol for recovery )

[Suzy H]

Hi sarahpp

 

No had never thought of claiming contractual interest to be honest - but you have certainally put the idea in my head

 

I'll have a read over the forum over the next 40 days to see whats involved and keep you posted.

[Suzy H]

Hello thought i'd update you with a 'progress' report and I used the word progress in its weakest sense!!!

 

Got my 'statements' for my Arnotts & Debenhams accounts this morning - I say statements but it's actually some incomplete statements only going back to Oct 01 and little cut out bits of paper - what's that all about lol.

 

NOT ONLY THAT but to make matters worse ... I also seem to have a copy statement for a Mrs Hilton of Lancs. Gold Account (yes along with her account number etc).

 

Off to have a scout around the forum to see what the next procedure is but just thought i'd update you with this little gem

 

I'll keep you updated

[Suzy H]

P.s.

 

The cover letter is very short and sweet:

 

Dear Suzi

 

As previously requested, please find a list of transactions and charges on your Debenhams and Frasercard account.

 

Please note that we only hold statements going back for five years. (Yes that's how it was worded! oh and no mention of incomplete data).

 

There has been no manual intervention on this account.

 

I hope you will find these details helpful. (I wonder if they mean because I now have the details of someone elses account lol)

 

Yours sincerely

 

Sue Davies

Data Protection Administrator

[Suzy H]

Hi everyone

 

After having a scout around various threads I have typed up a letter of reply - I would appreciate your eagle eyes glancing over it and then offering any advice on rewording and/or changing things.

 

As always - any help greatly appreciated

 

Thank you in advance

 

 

November 20, 2006

 

Sue Davies

Data Protection Administrator

GE Money

PO Box 700

Leeds

LS99 2BD

 

 

DATA PROTECTION ACT DISCLOSURE REQUEST

 

&

BREACH OF DATA PROTECTION ACT

 

DO NOT IGNORE

 

 

 

 

 

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

 

Dear Ms Davies

 

Important – You should read this carefully

 

Account Numbers: **************** & ****************

 

I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request.The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that the following documents are missing.

 

You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges. The statements you have failed to supply cover the following periods of time:-

 

Frasercard

February 2002, March 2002, June 2002, July 2002, August 2002, February 2003 to November 2003 inclusive, January 2004, October 2004 and December 2004.

 

Debenhams

April 2002, July 2002, August 2002, February 2003, July 2003, September 2003, April 2004.

 

Please note that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998 however you still have until December 04, 2006 to comply with my request and, as a gesture of goodwill, I am prepared to allow an additional 7 days in order for you to comply - this I believe to be ample time for a company of your size.

 

As for you only being able to supply ‘statements going back five years’ I do find this difficult to believe since the Inland Revenue expect companies to hold ALL their (and therefore by default their customers) account/business transactions for at least 6 years from date and, allowing for delay in tax accounts processing, this, in some cases, means companies are obliged to hold at least 7 years worth of data.

 

Taking this into consideration please note I am looking for A COMPLETE LIST OF TRANSACTIONS AND CHARGES RELATING TO MY ACCOUNT HISTORY WITH YOUR ORGANISATION. Alternatively, a complete set of statements, appropriately filed, for that period will be acceptable.

 

If you fail to comply with this request I will have no alternative but to refer the matter to the Information Commissioners Office and, without further communication to you, file a N1 Form at my local Sheriff Court, and take legal action against you for Non-Compliance. I will also ask, at the discretion of the court, for compensation in relation to all additional costs I have incurred due to your non compliance (e.g. fees for legal advice etc).

 

 

BREACH OF DATA PROTECTION ACT

 

 

I am terribly concerned and shocked that in addition to receiving incomplete statements from yourself your have also sent me a Debenhams Gold Card Statement for a Mrs M Hilton * ****** **** ****, ******, ******, Lancs. *** ***, account number ***** *** **** ****.

 

I find this both inexcusable and highly unprofessional and am now concerned that my own data is being handled with the same apparent disregard for confidentiality. Please be aware that I will be lodging a complaint with the Information Commissioners Office today.

 

I shall keep a copy of this statement for my records, should, at a later date, evidence of this be required, please note I will dispose of this securely once we have come to an amicable conclusion.

 

 

 

Yours sincerely

[Suzy H]

***bump***

 

[Suzy H]

Thank you for having a look over the letter sarah - I have printed it out and will get to the post office this afternoon.

 

I'm not sure what to do for the best now because so many statements are missing (approx 6 months from 02, nearly 1 year for 03 etc) so even 'guestimating' levied fees would be impossible .

 

I will wait for the response to this letter and if I still do not have a complete set of statements (and going on what you have said this will probably be the case) I might claim for charges every month I do not have statements for (as there was most probably charges levied anyway) and then leave the ball in their court for negotiation.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read over and reply to my thread and I shall keep you posted.

[Suzy H]

Hi sarah

 

Thanks for replying I have been reading your thread also and will be reporting the breach of Data Protection Act to the Information Commissioners Office and will report them again should there be a non compliance of my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) - especially since Glennuk said that the Information Commissioners Office 'are very interested in this issue'.

 

 

Hi ginamaunder

 

I'm sorry you have had such a crappy time of it but you're definitely on the right road for getting those levied fees back. I'll look out for your thread and i'm really looking forward reading your updates and of course reading about your success . Good luck and keep me updated

[Suzy H]

Hi all

 

Filled in the Information Commissioners Office complaint form re GE Moneys breach of Data Protection - scanned all the supporting documents and emailed it off just now .

[Suzy H]

Thanks sarah

 

I was dreading filling in the form but you were right - it took no longer than 10 minutes (including sending the supporting material) and it was not as daunting as I had first anticipated.

 

I do have two questions for you ... you mentioned you lodged a non compliance complaint with the Information Commissioners Office - after reading around a few threads I thought non compliance complaints went to Trading Standards - have I got that wrong? Or do we complain to both bodies?

 

Thank you for everything so far - off to tip your scales oops - pressed enter instead of shift mid typing and it sent - so my compliment might sound a bit disjointed and daft - bit like myself really ha ha ha.)

[Suzy H]

Brilliant Sarah

 

Thank you for the link - in Uni at the mo so will have a proper read of it tonight when I get home .

[Suzy H]

Got this email from the Information Commissioners Office yesterday re GE Capitals breach of Data Protection

Dear Ms Higgins

Thank you for your email. This has been forwarded to the Casework and Advice Division at our main office in Wilmslow. You will receive a full response from a Casework and Advice Officer in due course. Any further correspondence relating to this complaint should be sent to [email protected]. Alternatively you can contact the Helpline on 01625 545 745.

Sincerely

Sheila Logan

Operations and Policy Manager

Information Commissioner’s Office

Tel: 0131 225 6341

www.ico.gov.uk

I'll let you know the outcome.

[Suzy H]

Well nothing exciting to report really ...

 

No further news from Information Commissioners Office and just received this letter from GE Money ...

 

'Dear Suzi

 

I confirm receipt of your letter dated 20 November regarding your data subject access request.

 

I have carefully noted your comments. Firstly, I apologise for the statement that was sent to you in error. GE Money takes very seriously its obligations with regard to maintaining the confidentiality of customer information. I have investigated why this error occurred and can assure you that we have taken steps to prevent this from happening again. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.'

 

The letter goes on to say that I have received incomplete statements as I had a zero balance for those periods and therefore no statements were produced.

 

Finally ...

 

'Under your subject access request, GE Money is only bound to provide you with information that we hold, which we have done. It is therefore GE Money's position that it has complied with your subject access request. I apologise that we are unable to provide you with the statements you are seeking for the particular periods you have listed. If you could please advise us what specific information you are seeking to obtain for the periods you have stated in your letter, and why you require this, we will be happy to assist.

 

Finally, I note your comments about GE Money's approach with regard to the retention of customer statements. I appreciate that other organisations and agencies such as the Inland Revenue may have requirements which means that certain personal information must be kept for a period of six years or longer. However, it is not a legal requirement under the Data Protection Act or any other legislation that all organisations and agencies must retain personal information, such as statements, for a period of six years.

 

Under the Data Protection Act GE Money is required to keep personal data for no longer than is necessary. As we have also informed you, GE Money must comply with anti-money laundering legislation, which provides that GE Money must retain records of customer transactions for five years from the date of transaction. We believe that by holding statement and payment information for five years from the date of the transaction, we are complying with our obligations under both the Data Protection Act and the current anti-money laundering legislation.

 

I trust this clarifies our position. Should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Richard Wynn-Davies

Head of Customer Support'

 

So ... after Christams i'll forward the letter to the Information Commissioners Office and write to GE Money explaining exactly what I am looking for (eg charges and interest returned) so here's hoping their 'we will be happy to assist' happens.

 

I'll keep you posted ...

[Suzy H]

Hi guys

 

Now the festive period is well and truly over and i'm now coming to the tail end of this nasty flu bug that's hit lots of people -- I thought now was a perfect time to get cracking with GE (amongst others).

 

Still no word from the ICO -- should I wait for them to get back to me, re missing statements and data going back only 5 years, or crack on with the prelim request for payment?

 

Happy New Year

 

Suzi

[Suzy H]

Thanks sarahpp i'll get cracking -- might need some/ a lot of help with this contractual interest thing though.

 

Hi iwantmymoneynow -- it's more or less the same process as the bank reclaiming firstly get your statements -- send off your prelim letter (remember to change wording) etc etc.

 

You can claim on closed accounts as well (if you have any)

 

Good luck

 

Suzi

[Suzy H]

Hi Sarah

 

I haven't heard from the Information Commissioners Office yet but I had a look at your thread so at least I now know what to expect

 

I used the template in the library for the 29.9% interest -- does it look like I have used the right one? Is this the layout you used? Please can you cast your eagle eyes over this and I would appreciate any advice and guidance you can offer (I have only put in the charges from the statements they provided)

 

Many thanks

 

 

FULL NAME Suzy H

COMPANY GE Money

ACCOUNT:DEBENHAMS

ACCOUNT NUMBER:6**** 5** 4*** 2***

SCHEDULE OF CLAIM FOR CHARGES

PERIOD: 03/03/04 - 29/01/07

In Respect of: Amount: Date Incurred: Days since offence: Interest:

LATE PAYMENT CHARGE £18.00 03/03/20041062 £15.14

LATE PAYMENT CHARGE £18.00 02/07/2004 941 £13.41

LATE PAYMENT CHARGE £18.00 01/09/2004 880 £12.54

ARREARS LETTER CHARGE £18.00 01/02/2005 727 £10.36

ARREARS LETTER CHARGE £18.00 02/03/2005 698 £9.95

RETURNED CHEQUE CHARGE £18.00 06/04/2005 663 £9.45

RETURNED CHEQUE CHARGE £18.00 07/05/2005 632 £9.01

RETURNED CHEQUE CHARGE £18.00 06/06/2005 602 £8.58

RETURNED CHEQUE CHARGE £15.00 06/08/2005 541 £6.43

RETURNED CHEQUE CHARGE £15.00 06/09/2005 510 £6.06

ARREARS LETTER CHARGE £15.00 12/10/2005 474 £5.63

ARREARS LETTER CHARGE £15.00 12/12/2005 413 £4.91

ARREARS LETTER CHARGE £15.00 12/02/2006 351 £4.17

ARREARS LETTER CHARGE £15.00 12/03/2006 323 £3.84

ARREARS LETTER CHARGE £15.00 12/04/2006 292 £3.47

ARREARS LETTER CHARGE £15.00 12/05/2006 262 £3.11

 

Amount £264.00 Interest £126.04

TOTAL CLAIMED AT DATE OF SERVICE: £390.04 JUDICIAL INTEREST AT CURRENT RATE OF 8% £0.00 TOTAL CLAIMED AT DATE OF JUDGEMENT OR PAYMENT £390.04

 

Hope you can make it out -- cheers

[Suzy H]

Hi Sarah

 

Just found Vampiress google spread sheets -- gonna give that a go -- looks frightening though

 

Suzy

[Suzy H]

Hi guys

 

Thank you, as always, Sarah for your advice, guidance and moral support it is really appreciated. Thank you also 'fantasy charges' for your link -- it made great reading .

 

I received my ICO reply the other day --

 

RFA0142508

Dear Suzi

Thank you for your complaint form and the further information. The decision has been taken to deal with the matter as a Request for Assessment under section 42 of the Data Protection Act 1998 (‘the Act).

On receipt of a request for assessment, we are under a duty, in most instances, to assess whether it is likely or unlikely that the processing in question has been, or is being, carried out in compliance with the provisions of the Act. However, we have discretion as to how we carry out the assessment and to what action, if any, to take. The criteria on which these discretionary matters are decided are set out in our Policy on Handling Assessments, which is available on our website or from the address above.

We have considered the request in accordance with this policy and we are of the view that the information which you have provided does not justify starting a formal investigation. We have therefore made our assessment solely on the information which you have provided to us. We have not made any direct contact with the data controller.

You complained to the Information Commissioner regarding a subject access request you submitted to GE Money under section 7 of the Act. You notified me that you sent your request to GE Money on 23/10/2006 quoting account details **** **** **** *** and **** **** **** ****. You informed me that you received a response from GE Money dated 15/11/2006 but that it was incomplete.

I note that in your request you have made specific reference to Bank statements and to charges levied on your account in the last 6 years. At the time of writing to us you brought it to our attention that despite submitting your subject access request to GE Money, you were still awaiting a full response from them in relation to your request.

There are eight Data Protection Principles (“the Principles”) in the Act, sometimes referred to as the Principles of “good information handling” which data controllers are required to comply with.

On the basis of this information, it appears likely that there has been a contravention of the sixth data protection principle of the Data Protection Act 1998. The rights to subject access under sections 7 to 9 of the Act fall within this principle, which states, “Personal data shall be processed in accordance with the rights of data subjects under this Act.”

A data controller must comply with a subject access request promptly, in other words as quickly as he can, and in any event within 40 days of receipt of the request or, if later, within 40 days of receipt of:

a) the information required to satisfy himself as to the identity of the person making the request to enable him to locate the information which that person seeks; and

b) the fee.

We are of the view, therefore, that it is unlikely that the processing concerned has been carried out in compliance with the provisions of the Act. This is because GE Money failed to provide you with a complete response to your request within the required time period of 40 days.

You also brought it to my attention that enclosed with a letter you received from GE Money was a Debenhams store card statement for a third party individual named Mrs M Hilton. Although this particular issue does not directly affect your personal data, it does raise concerns under the seventh principle of the Act which is concerned with the security of personal data.

I will now inform GE Money of the out come of my assessment. I will instruct them to respond to your subject access request in full with immediate effect, either by supplying the personal data that you are entitled to under the Act, or by contacting you to obtain any necessary further information or fee in order to carry out your request. I will also ask them to explain why you did not receive a complete response to your request and for their assurances that they will take greater care to safeguard the personal data of their customers.

It may be helpful to explain that a contravention of one of the data protection principles is not itself a criminal offence and the Information Commissioner has no power to ‘punish’ a data controller. In such instances, the Commissioner will seek a resolution to the contravention and once satisfied that it has been remedied then in general no further action will be taken.

Furthermore, section 13 of the Act gives individuals the right to claim compensation if they have suffered damage as a result of a contravention of the Act. If this is something you would be interested in pursuing, I would advise you to obtain legal advice with a view to taking the matter to the courts. The Information Commissioner is unable to comment or advise on any claim for compensation.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. Your case will now be closed.

Yours sincerely

Matthew Negus

Casework & Advice Officer

So I guess i'll just sit tight and wait for GE Money to get back in touch -- should I give them the '40 days from receipt of this letter' and then , if I haven't heard from them write to them enclosing a copy of my ICO letter? Or drop them a line now basically saying 'I look forward to their reply?'

 

Thanks

[Suzy H]

Hi guys

 

Received a bit of good news the other morning -- got an unexpected letter from GE Money ...

 

Dear Suzi

 

Please accept my apologies that you had to escalate your complaint in relation to your Data Subject Access Request to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

A subject Access Request requires us to send you full details of all records that you have requested. After carefully checking your details I can confirm that what we have previously supplied includes all data we have on file with the exception of your October 2004 statement, which I have now enclosed. I have also made the ICO aware of this fact. Your complaint has highlighted the need for changes to our current processes and systems, which we have now implemented.

 

I understand that this will not resolve the issue of your missing statements for July 2003, April 2004 and October 2004 on your Debenhams Account and January 2004 on your Fraser Account. However, I can confirm that all arrears charges have been removed from your account balance.

 

Where statements are missing we have made an assumption that a fee was charged to ensure you that you do not lose out financially. I have therefore removed a further £18.00 for each missing statement to over compensate. A total refund of £270.00 will be sent to you under separate cover.

 

I also understand that you were sent a statement in the name of Mrs M Hilton. The data we hold on fiche is in alphabetical order and therefore statements for Mrs Hilton would follow your account information. I fully understand this should not have happened and hope you will accept our apologies. We have implemented a more rigorous checking procedure to avoid this happening again in the future.

 

I hope this letter addresses your complaint in more detail. If you have any further questions in relation to this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Miss L Cole

Complaints Resolution Team

 

cc Matthew Negus, Information Commissioners Office

 

Well ... i'm quite chuffed with this as there are a lot more missing statements than quoted in Miss Coles letter so I shall for sure add on £18.00 (as per her suggestion so I do not 'lose out financially')

 

However not so chuffed as they have removed 'all arrears charges from [my] account balance' i'm not sure how this has been achieved since both my Frasercard and Debenhams accounts were cleared in full over a year ago!!!

 

Maybe there is another Suzi doing cartwheels this weekend because of the cleared arrears charges on her account

[Suzy H]

Hi beetlebum38

 

Ha ha ha -- I know very interesting ... the closed account faeries visited me lol ... yesterday I received a statement from GE Money (my 1st in about a year) re my Frasercard and I am £72 in credit!!! mmm bizarre so I wrote them this letter and posted it recorded delivery yesterday ...

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Miss Gale,

 

Re: Account number **************** & ****************

Thank you for your letter dated February 26, 2007 however I am very disappointed at the figure you have offered.

I am also confused, and now looking for documentation and an explanation, as to how you have managed to ‘confirm that all arrears charges have been removed from [my] account balance’ as both my House of Fraser and Debenhams accounts were both cleared and closed some time ago.

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you had applied to my account in relation to late payment charges, arrears letter charges and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my House of Fraser and Debenhams accounts. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I calculate that from my Debenhams account you have taken £390.00 plus £293.10 in interest at your rate of 29.90% and £534.00 plus £489.70 in interest at your rate of 29.90% from my House of Fraser account totalling £1706.80.

I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges, for your perusal, which I am claiming and please note that this schedule includes, at your suggestion, the missing statement charges. I would also like a refund of the arrears charges you say you have removed from my accounts and, as confirmation, the appropriate supporting material.

I require repayment in full of this money. If you do not comply fully by March 27th 2007 then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus additional interest costs, my personal costs and all expenses occurred and without further notice.

 

Yours faithfully,

I'll keep you posted on the outcome

[Suzy H]

Hi guys

 

Recieved a letter from Miss Gale this morning

 

Thank you for your letter dated 12 March 2007.

 

After checking our records I do agree that the refund amount given for £270.00 is incorrect. However, I do not calculate that you are due a further £1436.80.

 

Please find listed below our record of charges, which show that you are due, a further refund of £48.00 and then all the charges have been fully reimbursed. I have also agreed to refund the interest charges you have calculated at £782.80.

 

List of charges ...

 

In your calculations you have included both, statements which have been provided and do not show a charge and statements which are not missing, but were not actually produced as no balance was held on account at that time. A charge would not be applied to the account when it holds a nil balance.

 

Charges and interest being refunded total £830.80. A cheque for £270.00 has previously been sent to you . You are therefore due a further £560.80, which has been sent to you under separate cover and will be with you shortly.

 

I apologise for any confusion caused and trust this clarifies matters.

 

The reply being sent today reads ...

 

Dear Miss Gale

 

Thank you for your letter dated March 27th 2007 however your information is still incorrect. I have enclosed a copy of a previous correspondence detailing the missing statements.

 

As you can see from this letter, which the Information Commissioners Office received a copy of, the missing statements are as follows:

 

List of charges ...

 

For ease of reading I have highlighted the missing statements in red that you have been informed are missing however as you can clearly see this does not reflect the actual data that was sent to me.

 

If you have now found the missing statements I have been asking for or can provide evidence to reflect that my account indeed had a nil balance and therefore no statement was generated then please send this information to me so I can adjust my records to reflect the correct amount outstanding.

 

As you will appreciate until receipt of the statements or ‘nil balance’ evidence provided I shall pursue the full amount as stated in my previous correspondence (again I have enclosed a copy of that letter along with the schedule of charges).

 

Please also note that I have never received ‘a cheque for £270.00’ I have however received a Frasercard Account statement which appears to be in credit of £72.00 and a Debenhams Account statement which appears to be in credit of £198.00.

 

As these accounts were paid in full and closed approximately one year ago I do not have access to these funds so would therefore request that you send the refunds by cheque.

 

I trust this clarifies my position and I look forward to hearing from you by April 11th 2007.I understand you have agreed to pay the £782.80 interest, £270.00 and £48.00 totalling £1100.80 however, should I not hear from you by April 11th 2007 with the material supporting your ‘nil balance’ argument for missing statements then I shall continue my court claim against you for the full amount which is for Debenhams £390.00 plus £293.10 in interest and £534.00 plus £489.70 in interest from my House of Fraser account totalling £1706.80.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

As always ... i'll keep you posted

[Suzy H]

Thanks guys

 

Hopefully that's me on the home stretch now I was amazed to hear they are agreeing with and paying the interest in full considering they are disputing the existance of statements.

 

Hmmm ... am I right in thinking ... they agree to pay all the interest I have asked for, which also includes interest from missing statements, but they're saying no statement exists hmmm very interesting lol.

 

Anyway i'm sure there is a logical explanation for this (ok maybe not).

 

Suzi

[Suzy H]

Hello darling1

 

Yes you can lump them all together just highlight the different accounts and corresponding amounts.

 

I received the first of my cheques on Friday and, despite a little hick up over final balanced owed, I am to recieve the full amount I am asking for (this does include interest at the rate of 29.9% which makes a huge difference to the final amount you're claiming).

 

I see you have had previous successes so, appart from tweeking the letters and a change of interest rate, it's just exactly the same process.

 

Good luck on your quest

 

Suzi