Gimme vs Natwest (Scotland)

[gimme_my_money]

Hi Guys

 

I'm fairly new to all this, read read and read the various posts again and again ... and am still confused .

 

I've recieved the statements from the bank and have calculated the charges so far WITHOUT interest. I've had a look through the spreadsheets and the interest is doing my head in!!

 

1. How is contractual interest worked out (bearing in mind my account has been run in the overdraft pretty much constantly)?

 

2. What is the difference between contractual interest, compounded interest, judicial interest and the 8% interest andded at court stage?

 

3. Has anybody had any success in claiming in Scotland with contractural interest?

 

4. I plan to claim using the small claims procedure in Scotland (£750) and submit 4 claims ... do i also complete 4 seperate spreadsheets and submit those one at a time (send number 2 when number 1 has been settled etc) or hit them for the full amount in one go, then break it down into £750 chunks?

 

 

I really REALLY could do with some help on this! ...

 

THANKS !!

 

Gimme xxxx

[larssonn]

Hi there.

 

What I did was to put all the charges in the spreadsheet and chop it up so that with the interest added, it came just shy of £750. Then I copied that section to a new worksheet so I didnt get confused. Dont know the difference between all the interest things but make sure you fill in Form 1B part 4 with

 

The pursuer claims from the defendant the sum of £xx.xx with the interest on that sum at the rate of 8% annually from the date of each charge (together with the expenses of bringing the action)

 

There has been a lot of people who are not filling this in and the court are getting frustrated (not annoyed though cos they know we are not legal experts) at telling you to change it.

 

Once you get your money back for that section, you can 'grey out' the details of the spreadsheet that is finished.

 

Remember also that interest accrues daily so make sure that you quote the running total figure for that day if you are entering into any dialogue with the bank (which will most likely happen the nearer to the court date)

 

Hope this helps a bit?

[gimme_my_money]

Thanks Larsson

 

That helps a lot. One more question tho' (or two ... or maybe another half dozen) ... which spreadsheets did you use? the simple one with the 8% or the complex one which calculates the percentage of the overdraft interest?

 

Correct me if i'm wrong (which is pretty much all the time with these spreadsheets...) I take it you added 8% to the claim, then got a further 8% from the court when/if it reached court?

 

Thanks again

 

Gimme xx

[stevokenevo]

Hello, what i did ( succesfully!) with my first claim, was the first £710 of charges, plus 8% interest from the date of service for each charge. This was quite simple AND effective ;-) Good Luck!!

[gimme_my_money]

Thanks Stevokenevo!

 

 

Right ... close your eyes tight ... assume that i'm a blond 12 year old with a number problem (not talkin' bout my vital stats )

 

 

Pllleeeaaase can you explain the above to me in small "bite size" pieces?? what spreadsheet did you use for this? etc etc

 

 

Thanks

 

Gimme xxx

[gimme_my_money]

OK!!! here we go ... blond moment over i think (i hope )

 

I've filled in the Scottish simple excel spreadsheet, changed the 8% interest box to 16% (the rate of authorised borrowing for Natwest) and have included it in my calculations, and will ask (very politely) for it all back. I've read on the forums that you can give the an alternative of 8% if it goes to court??

 

I've also calculated it with the 8% interest instead of the 16% on a seperate spreadsheet just incase.

 

I'll break it down into £750 increments and submit the first claim (long drawn out process but i'll get there in the end!)

 

ADVICE NEEDED!!! does this sound right / make sense to anyone else?????

 

Cheers

 

Gimme xxx

[stevokenevo]

I used the simple excel spreadsheet, i didn't change any of the interest rates or anything, i left it at the 8%, when i printed off the spreadsheet i had the amount claimed, the interest, and the judicial interest section read 0.00, i sent it off with my claim and got it all back no probs, hope this helps!?!?!?!?!?

[gimme_my_money]

Thanks Stevokenevo,

Hopefully i'll be as successful! The prelim letter went off to Natwest this morning, recorded delivery (i even asked for a receipt for the cost from the P.O lol).

I'm now considering going down to England to claim the whole amount through the small claims court ... i have friends and family there, but will wait and see what Natwest reply with first.

I PREDICT A RIOT ....

[stevokenevo]

you don't need the information about interest etc when you are at this stage!! your preliminary letters and LBA should state the full amount of charges you are reclaiming from the last 5 years (i.e you don't need to split it into £750 lumps at this stage). It is only when you issue your claim through the court that you add on the 8% interest.

I am sorry, i thought from the way you were talking you were at the court stage!!

I am guessing you have your statements or list of charges and have added up all the returned direct debits, overdraft excess fees, returned cheque charges etc.

Your prelim letter should be from the template library here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/671-2-letter-preliminary-approach.html

and be for the FULL amount!

If you have broken down the charges into chunks of £750, i would redo your prelim letter and send it off, include with the letter a schedule of charges ( a list of each charge/what it was for/date.)

Don't worry about the first letter.

After they politely tell you were to go, you send them the LBA here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/92-3-letter-before-action.html

again for the full amount and again include the schedule of charges.

They will reply telling you that they cant give you your money back as they were doing you a service etc

at this point you put your list of charges into the simple excel speadsheet( here http://www.cag-files.co.uk/barracad/Spreadsheets/Scotland/Simple-bank-charges-calc.xls), which calculates the 8% interest on each charge from the date of service, adds it up for you and gives you a new total.

At this point you decide if you want to issue a small claim (max £750 + 8%interest + costs), or a summary cause action (max £1500 + 8% inerest + costs), if for example you issue a small claim, you take the first £750 or less of charges (i.e the oldest first) and fill in the form, i copied scotia's template exactly changing his details for mine (found here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/11123-scottish-procedure-new-post.html).

 

I hope this helps, and clears up a couple of things for you, also, stick with it, you will get there, and if you stick to the tried and tested way, you WILL get your money back!!

[gimme_my_money]

Thanks Stenokenevo

I've gone for the "cheeky way" ... basically used the simple excell spreadsheet, calculated all the charges (not including the interest they charged me ... far too difficult for my small brain lol), changed the 8% to 16% and am claiming compounded contractural interest based on their authorised borrowing rate of 16.4% in 2001, I've included it in the calculations i sent to Natwest today as i intend to go for contractural interest (that accrues daily until settlement) instead of the statutory 8% you include as it reaches court stage. I amended the prelim letter to warn them that I am claiming the contractural -- afterall, they deemed this rate to be "fair and acceptable" when i borrowed from them. "whats good for the goose is good for the gander". If it reaches court stage, they can argue the "unfair interest rate" with the judge, but that won't come untill they've satisfied the judge that the initial charges they applied to my account are fair and just.

I will add in the LBA that i will accept 8% in the alternative if they settle out of court (hopefuly this may set the precedent and they'll settle the next 3 claims quickly without doing the whole process again and again)

Another point that i intend to raise in court (or at least use as part of my case in the run up) is the fact that for a good part of the claim period, i was forced to claim welfare benefit for myself and my 3 children due to the breakdown of my marriage -- which itself was in no small part due to financial problems. The welfare rates are based on the minimum living allowance decided by the government (of which the banks are well aware), still, the banks charged in excess of £60 a month penalty charges, effectively placing myself and my children below the poverty line. If they disagree with this, they can explain this to the judge too.

Views on this would be GREATLY appreciated

Gimme xx

[stevokenevo]

Hmmm, i've got feeling your not as 'blonde' as your making out ;-)

Have a look at this thread, it's really long, but could answe some of your questions! http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/18313-why-no-one-claiming.html

 

Good Luck!

[gimme_my_money]

oooppps ...

did i say BLOND??? I really meant "auburn"(with pink highlights) Nigel the hairdresser said the short cropped look works really well with my 6'1" 17 stone frame.

Needed a new look for the Scottish Womans Rugby Tournament in November ...

See ya at the bar for a pint mate ...

HELGA (aka Gimme)

xxx

[stevokenevo]

OMG you sound like an EX of mine ;-) by 'auburn' i take it you mean 'GINGER'!!!!

lol

[gimme_my_money]

OMG!! OMG ... is that REALLY you Stevo??? call me ...

HELGA (aka Gimme, aka your ex)

xx

[stevokenevo]

[gimme_my_money]

A quick update .....

After a very bitter morning in which i'd discovered that i'm yet AGAIN being charged this month, i decided to put a spare hour to good use and send a few emails around.

First to Rt Hon John Hutton (Secretary of State), then to Jack McConnell, my local MP Jo Swinson, and the Rt Hon. Gordon Brown.

I explained that although the government had been working hard over the years to stop poverty (every child has the right to live free of poverty) by improving the benefit rates / introducing Tax credits etc, the banks were consistently undermiming this work by continuing to "confiscate" benefits paid into the account to cover their own unlawful and extortionate fees, resulting in my family, and families of thousands of others to live below the poverty line.(see post 10)

I followed this up with a phone call to the Rt Hon John Hutton and spoke at length to his Personal assistant (who is in agreement that the bank charges are excessive). I will be getting a reply from him within the next two weeks. I run out of time shortly after, but am planning the same phone call follow-up with the others named above. Any replies in writing will be copied and sent to the bank along with a copy of the letter i'd sent.

It may be a pointless exercise ... but to quote Tesco's "every little helps" and Natwest "there is another way" (hahaha just watch me Natwest)

wish me luck!!!!

[stevokenevo]

Hi Gimme, i see from another thread you have been given a "right of first appropriation " letter from 'lickthewall...' I'd get that edited and sent off right away, it can only help!! I cant believe how inconsiderate they have been, esp under the circumstances

Don't let the fockers get you down ;-)

 

S

[lil_jo]

GGGGRRRRR .... Lost my password and had a nightmare of a time trying to log back in (hence the reason i've been AWOL). No Joy, so i'm here under an alias (ok, ok, i started another account without using the "almost-on-line" email addy)

 

Hope this doesn't confuse anyone .... Just for the record stevokenevo .... i was tempted to use "helga" as my username, but for the sake of security, i decided not to

 

Will update you all ASAP

 

J (aka gimme_my_money, aka Helga, aka lil_jo)

[arlenphoto]

a few words and figures to inspire you! i just recieved a cheque from natwest for £1029.39 which is a full settlement(interest and court fees) am on cloud 9! keep going, you will get there in the end!

i got this less than 1 week after filling in and submitting the online money claim forms! it is chucking it down but am going to walse to the bank and deposit my cheque!!!

[lil_jo]

CONGRATULATIONS ARLENPHOTO!!!

 

Fantastic news!, hope i'm as lucky!,

 

I've been causing a fair bit of trouble since i was last on here. I sent off the prelim letter to request the charges back, recieved a letter back explaining they they were looking into the charges and would contact me. I recognised this to be "delay tactics" so i proceeeded along the origonal schedule and issued them with the LBA on Weds 8th November. While waiting for the time to send the LBA, i contacted various MP's and recieved a reply from Gordon Brown's office letting me know that they would also be looking into this (see previous post re: benefit theft from banks). I included a copy of the original letter to Gordon Brown and also their reply with the LBA to the bank. I was on a roll ... so i decided to include a seperate sheet of paper to clarify all my details (full name, address, account number etc etc) and explained that i intend to take this further if my refund request was declined, that a cpr part 18 was unneccessary due to the claim being a small claims procedure and would therefore be seen as intimadatory, in addition, i would issue the bank with my own cpr part 18 request asking them to disclose a breakdown of all the charges applied to my account and how they formulate the cost of the charges. I also added a note at the bottom of the pages stating that ALL of my correspondance with them will be made available to the court (trying to pre-empt any more of their intimidation tactics).

 

It may have been OTT .... "but your honor ... i had PMT"

 

STILL WAITING FOR A RESPONSE lol

[lil_jo]

ohhh yeah .... forgot to mention. I recieved a letter from the bank a few days ago telling me that a direct debit had been refused and that they'd applied another extortionate charge to my account. They included a copy of their "charging schedule" and T and C's. ... interesting as it's the first letter regarding charges that i've recieved from them in years and i've been charged EVERY MONTH. I'll be keeping the T and C's as i've read elsewhere on the site that the judge had asked for a copy in court. Thanks Cr*pwest!

[karlatudor]

 

I've gone for the "cheeky way" ... basically used the simple excell spreadsheet, calculated all the charges (not including the interest they charged me ... far too difficult for my small brain lol), changed the 8% to 16% and am claiming compounded contractural interest based on their authorised borrowing rate of 16.4% in 2001, I've included it in the calculations i sent to NatWest today as i intend to go for contractural interest (that accrues daily until settlement) instead of the statutory 8% you include as it reaches court stage.

 

I am using Spreadsheet 8 (simple with compound interest) which I think is different from contractual interest. Can you tell me what date to put in the 'DATE OF JUDGEMENT OR PAYMENT:' box. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

[Advocate]

Interested to know what your legal basis is for asking for compound interest (contractual). Your contract with the bank does not allow you compound interest and, at least in Scotland, compound interest has only ever been allowed in a miniscule number of situations?

[karlatudor]

Basically, everything that I have been reading on the thread "Why is no-one claiming contractual interest?"

[Advocate]

In order to be able to claim contractual interest, you must in the first instance have right under the contract to interest. in terms of your contract, you are only entitled to interest when ou are in credit. When overdrawn, the Banks have the contractual right to charge you interest.

 

Second, you would have to point to a term of the contract that has been breached by the Bank. I am interested to know which term it is that you believe you can point in support of the argument that the Bank are in breach of contract. It seems to me that, on the contrary, they have applied the terms of the contracts between themselves and the consumer strictly in accordance with its terms notified to the consumer in the terms and conditions. There can be no breach of contract. Your remedy here lies, if at all, on other legal grounds.