Cabot and Citi Card debt

[andrew1]

Thanks for the reply Stonelaughter and my apologies for the delay in reply ( I've been in Germany watching the footy - had tickets to England / Sweden ! Now back to the real action!

 

Am writing to Cabot again requesting as you suggest.

 

Interestingly I have just received a letter from them stating that " failure to resolve this outstanding debt would result in commencement of one of the following actions being taken: ( I have a choice? !!)

 

1) Instruction to an external agent to call on me

2) A warrant of execution

3 A charging Order

4) An attachment of earnings order

5)Order to obtain information.

 

FAILURE TO RESPOND NOW ENSURES THE COMMENCEMENT OF ONE OF THE ABOVE

 

Which one should I choose? !!

 

idjuts!

[Movingon]

1) Instruction to an external agent to call on me

2) A warrant of execution

3 A charging Order

4) An attachment of earnings order

5)Order to obtain information.

LMAO... they have just pulled those things out of some random court manual somewhere... Does the letter look like a court letter? If so they're breaking the law anyway...

[andrew1]

No it's not an official looking letter at all, just one on their headed paper and the 1-5 points in capitals.

 

As a matter of interest, I have now sent a DPA / SAR to the Credit Card Company CitiFinancial as there are unlawful charges on the card. I won't know how much until I receive the statements. The total debt is just over £900 and there will be at least half of that in charges I am sure.

 

There are two points which have conflicting thoughts throughout various threads. Cabot bought the debt from Citi so I was under the impression that Cabot bought warts and all and would be responsible for settling any unlawful charges applied even before CitiFinancial sold it to them. However, some say Cabot ( or the DCA ) are only responsible for any unlawful charges made AFTER they bought the debt and all previous Credit Card charges should be sought from the Credit card company itself.

 

Have you any consoliodated thoughts yourself or are you aware of any consensus of opinion?

 

Would you suggest I told Cabot that the account is in dispute with Citi and then deal with Citi over the charges? I think by doing this it will freeze Cabot's involvement until the dispute is resolved if I am correct.

 

Sorry, but what is LMAO?

[Movingon]

LMAO is "Laughing my A$$ off"... Sorry

 

As regards unlawful charges before the debt was sold, I would say that Citi would be responsible for refunding those (if you've subsequently paid them of course; if you haven't then I would suggest that having the debt unenforceable is enough; in which case you won't need the DPA stuff from Citi).

 

So in summary - if you've paid more than the amount of unlawful charges already then I would suggest claiming them back; if there is a significant proportion of the debt left which could all be attributed to unlawful charges, I would suggest leaving well enough alone until Cabot screw up and don't send you the copies of original paperwork in response to your correctly worded and formatted CCA request and £1 PO. Once they have defaulted (which I've no doubt they will) then you have no case to answer; a complete defence.

[andrew1]

Thanks Tom - I've just LMAO at what it meant! This site never fails to amuse me - you learn something every day!

 

Okay, I'll do as you suggest, but I have already sent my DPA off to Citi - anyway I'll follow the Cabot route first and if you are right, which you probably are the whole thing will die! Thanks then I can LMAO all the more !

[andrew1]

I believe this is the template is it not? Does the fact that I have paid them some repayments make any difference to the fact that I do not acknowledge the debt to them - if I didn't why would I be paying them? Anyway take a look and let me know if you think it's okay..

 

Lindsey Thomas

Recoveries Manager

Cabot Financial

PO Box No.241

West Malling

Kent ME19 4NA

 

 

Dear Ms Thomas

 

Your reference:xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Firstly, I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number xxxxx.

 

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

Andrew1

 

 

 

By the way, I didn't find this in the Templates thread I found it in the Debt Collection Agency thread. Maybe it could do with going in with the templates.

[Movingon]

You paid it because they bullied you into it...

[andrew1]

so it's okay then?

[Movingon]

Indeed it is.

[gbd]

Just as an additional, the 087 range has enough public recognition that only a particularly stupid DCA would use it (in my opinion).

 

I brought an 0870 number and use it as my contact number in dealings with all commercial organisations. They get charged national rate and I get 2 pence per minute. It has cut down on the amount of junk phone calls I get no-end!

[brandedcentaur]

I brought an 0870 number and use it as my contact number in dealings with all commercial organisations. They get charged national rate and I get 2 pence per minute. It has cut down on the amount of junk phone calls I get no-end!

 

Sounds like a brilliant idea! May I ask how much they cost & where I can get one please?

[thunderpuss2k]

Sounds like a brilliant idea! May I ask how much they cost & where I can get one please?

 

Google it

 

0870 numbers - Google Search

[brandedcentaur]

WOW! Thank you so much!! I just looked & for £9-99 for LIFE I can have an 0870 number that earns 4p a minute!!! HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY!!

[gbd]

Be wary though - Ofcom ruled a couple of months ago that they are not happy with people earning money from 0870 numbers and by the end of the year the earning capacity could be gone.

 

Still - the companies still don't like calling 0870.

[Tobes]

what about 0906 numbers

[brandedcentaur]

I'm happy enough to pay £9-95 for the pleasure of stringing out the conversation as long as I can, hjappy in the knowlege that it is costing the "fatherless ones" an arm & a leg to harrass me!

 

Thanks for the tip about Ofcom but I will take my chances with them!

[chrismc]

WOW! Thank you so much!! I just looked & for £9-99 for LIFE I can have an 0870 number that earns 4p a minute!!! HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY!!

 

Why not get a Premium Rate one and get them paying £1.50/minute that woujld really wind them up

[ecobabe]

following on from my posts further up ,I sent a copy of the CCA from here to JD williams(1st Credit ltd) for a £30 debt that has escalated to £200 with charges. a company called reliable collections responded saying"please find enclosed an itemised list of the following details as requested. staements issued, charges applied, goods despatched, returned and payments received. In relation to your request for a copy of the executed agreement under section 78 of the CCA, I would refer you to regulation 3(2)(b) of the Consumer Credit(cancellation notices and copies of documents)Regulations 1983. Init you will see that there is no requirment to provide a photocopy of the agreement bearing your signature; it is sufficient that we supply details of the Terms & conditions to which you have agreed. I am therefor enclosing a copy of the type of Credit Agreement sent to you when you opened your account in 2003. All future correspondence should now be sent to First credit Ltd."

 

that was where i sent the CCA letter anyway so why reliable are writing(i've never heard of them) i've no idea.

 

anyway enclosed with letter is a copy of transactions and a copy of a credit agreement with no signature on it. but clearly an agreement that should be sent out and signed.

 

what does this gobbledegook mean? all the reference to cancellation notices etc?

and why would an agency that i didn't contact, contact me about a letter sent to 1st credit.......my head hurts!!!

[Movingon]

Consumer credit (...) regulations 1983. Hmmm. Sounds like flannel to me.

 

If they have not sent you a copy of the signed credit agreement after 30 days then I would report them to trading standards... simple as. They are trying to flannel you into backing down IMO.

[ecobabe]

thanks for that. I've been scrabbling around trying to track down this legislation(consumer credit regulations)on line, but it's very disjointed. so you reckon that this doesn't change the original CCA which states that they have to supply copies?

[Movingon]

I couldn't find it either... although apparently it DOES exist. I would wait for someone like Bankfodder, RBrears or Don Quixote to answer this; it looks a bit scary for me. However, as far as I'm concerned s.77(1) and s.78(1) have not been amended out of existence... so you should be OK with the normal request. They MAY be allowed to send you "the same type" of agreement which you may or may not have signed; but that does not IMO make you owe them the money... only an agreement signed by YOU is legally binding on YOU.

[ecobabe]

thanks for that. i'll wait.

[chrismc]

reliable collections

Thats a joke

 

 

anyway enclosed with letter is a copy of transactions and a copy of a credit agreement with no signature on it. but clearly an agreement that should be sent out and signed.

 

Surely if they have sent a copy of a Consumer Credit Agreement which has NO signature it is not legally binding? Otherwise we could have dodgy salesmen filling in agreements willy nilly and just processing them as they see fit.

 

I have sold finance which comes under and are governed by the CCA 1974 and never ever did the agreement/finance etc get approved unless the documents were signed and every little thing checked out and all the right boxes were ticked. The finance companies were very thorough on these things.

 

It may be a little different for small priced consumer goods agreements but even then the very least you need is a signature from the consumer to say they agree to the terms and conditions.

 

I would stick to my guns and tell them in the absence of a signed CCA you do not acknowledge the debt is owed. All likleyhood is they cannot supply one. If they can't it is their tuff luck.

 

Chris

[ecobabe]

that's what my gut feeling is as well, so thanks. I do want to make sure though so that i get it right when i reply. Incidentally the copy agreement they sent didn't even have my name and address on it, never mind my signature. It was a blank copy with a creditors signature on it. so Bankfodder, Don Qioxote & RBrears et al.........help. What the heck is this Consumer Credit (cancellation notices & copies of documents)regulations 1983 that they refer to and does it supersede the CCA ? If it doesn't what should I say to these liars...cos i don't want them getting off with misrepresentation. also shouldn't i have been told that the debt was with them...which i never was, first i knew of them was the letter. The £30 debt had been passed onto 3 different companies and i wrote to all 3 requesting agreement and copy of deed of assignment, all 3 have replied saying it has been passed back to original creditor(JD Williams/first credit) so where reliable came from i've no idea. anyway i'll wait on your advice. thanks in anticipation.

[chrismc]

all 3 have replied saying it has been passed back to original creditor(JD Williams/first credit) so where reliable came from i've no idea. anyway i'll wait on your advice. thanks in anticipation.

 

In that case why are they still pursuing you?? tell them as clearly stated by them it has been passed back as they have indicated this in writing you, So, you will deal only with the original creditor, unless they can prove to you the debt was sold on (eg copy of the letter stating that) and there was a CCA signed by yourself.

 

I don't think they can take this much further legally, but that does not mean they won't threaten!!