Cap1 & CCA return

[un1boy]

Yes write back stating you will grant them 14 days provided no attempts are made to try & enforce any debt & that if the do all bets are off.

 

Also make it clear that if they don't respond within THEIR deadline you will take any neccessary action you deem appropriate including reporting their criminal conduct regarding non-compliance.

 

Ok, makes prefect sense - why didn't I think of that? lol.

 

I have all the forms to fill in from TS now too, so i will let them know that they will be reported if I don't hear from them.

 

Thanks again

 

PS Happy New Year everyone - hope 2007 brings everything you need to make you happy!

[un1boy]

That's great news Ecobabe, well done!

 

Do CCA requests only apply to active agreements, or can you send a request for a closed agreement?

[un1boy]

Thanks for clarifying that ecobabe!!

[un1boy]

Unfortunatly they only apply to accounts that and I precise subsections 77 and 78 of the act that 'are in debt', if the account is not extant or dormant, the bank has no duty to supply the agreement. Unless you can rember the agreement not complying with section 61 as I can with acouple of mine.

 

thanks mate

 

Remember the application forms enclosed in magazines, my daughter had one in her Nursing magazine the other day from a well known bank. Only one signature box! Only a small thing I know but enough to nulify the agreement.

 

Mike

 

Good point!

[un1boy]

Surely a copy of an application form can not be a credit agreement - UNLESS it has been signed by the credit company, eg when you get a copy of your app sent back to you after the loan has started, and it has been signed by the credit company?

 

And - Just a quick one on CCA requests guys, I have used the search function yo no avail, and cannot for the life of me find a CCA Template Letter... Any pointers???

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Try this mate:

 

Credit Card Number: xxxxx

After recently obtaining a copy of my credit file from Experian and Equifax I was concerned to note that your company has placed a "Default" notice against the above accounts in my name.

Further to this I have no recollection of ever receiving such a notice, and I therefore require you to substantiate this data at your earliest convenience.

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £2 cheque in payment of the statutory fee for providing this information (to cover both accounts); cheque number xxxxx

2. You must supply me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice

3. Any deed of assignment if the debt was sold on

4. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

You have 14 days in order to supply me with this data; if you are unable to provide this data then I must insist that it is removed from my files as unsubstantiated. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

[un1boy]

Can you do a cca on an overdraft?

 

My partners was set up on the phone with abbey, he never signed anything with them. Im just wondering, does that mean there was never any agreement in the first place?

 

This is a bit of a grey area and I personally believe they are or at least should be. They credit check you and put your account behaviour on your credit files, yet say that the OD is not credit and not regulated under the CCA.

 

Others disagree with me.

 

Example 6 from the CCA reads:

 

EXAMPLE 6

Facts. The G Bank grants H (an individual) an unlimited overdraft, with an increased rate of interest on so much of any debit balance as exceeds £2,000.

Analysis. Although the overdraft purports to be unlimited, the stipulation for increased interest above £2,000 brings the agreement within section 10(3)(b)(ii) and it is a consumer credit agreement.

 

Also, I am in the process of claiming back monies I have paid agsainst a defaulted OD so I will let you knoe how that pans out!

[un1boy]

Yes, this is why I am not sure either - they aren't covered by the looks of things, but likewise I don't think any banks have been challenged about it either, I may have something up my sleeve so I will post details when I can!!

[un1boy]

I believe overdrafts are an anomaly regarding the CCA Act ie different rules apply.

 

Do we know which rules?

[un1boy]

I was just thinking about when my bank acct was opened. Id estimate at between 5 and 13. Probably the latter. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but IF i singed anything, I was probably a little too young to undersatnd any of the mumbo jumbo. And whilst I may well have uprated the acct since then, I dont recall signing anything - bit they have obviously sent me the uprated accts T&Cs. Thanks Barclays

 

Well if you were ever charged for going into an unagreed overdraft or anything under the age of 18 then it is illegal for them to recover the moeny from you; under 18's aren't legally responsible for their debts, that's why no one lends to them!

 

I got charge when I was 17 and expalined this to them, they promptly returned the charges "as a gesture of goodwill."

 

In terms of your point about not understanding, that's a very good point. jsut because you've upgraded your account doesn't mean you've seen the T&C's.

 

If I was a bank, I would ensure (for my own protection more than anything) that everyone signs a new app with the T&C's and that they sign the T&C's as well and both of us take a copy then. Even if it's an upgrade

 

The trouble today is that everyone wants everyhting now. If you had to sign the new app and T&C's first, you would think about upgraded or whatever first becasue it would take you longer - even if it's just 5 minutes.

 

This is the same for credit searches - when you apply for an Ovedraft with your bank, they tend to just credit check you, no signature or anything so what if you contacted the CRA and said you didn't give permission? How would they prove that you did for a start? I would make the customer sign a form to agree to it and that they understand the implications.

 

I just think that we should all take things a lottle slower sometimes, especially things like credit etc which can have such a massive impact on our lives!

 

Rant over. )

[un1boy]

That's still a crazy thing to put in the legislation though, eh?

[un1boy]

ok I need to quote the bit that says a company cannot profit while in default. Does anybody know EXACTLY where it is ? I need it fast for a BIG claim going into Barclaycard this weekend and I dont really have the time to troll through CPA,CCA etc etc right now

 

 

Hi Tam,

 

Is this what you're looking for (from the CCA):

________

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

 

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

 

(a) the state of the account, and

 

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

 

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

 

 

(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)©, he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

 

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

 

(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or

 

(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.

 

 

(4) Where running-account credit is provided under a regulated agreement, the creditor shall give the debtor statements in the prescribed form, and with the prescribed contents—

 

(a) showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer, the state of the account at regular intervals of not more than twelve months, and

 

(b) where the agreement provides, in relation to specified periods, for the making of payments by the debtor, or the charging against him of interest or any other sum, showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer the state of the account at the end of each of those periods during which there is any movement in the account.

 

 

(5) A statement under subsection (4) shall be given within the prescribed period after the end of the period to which the statement relates.

 

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

 

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

 

(7) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement, and subsections (4) and (5) do not apply to a small agreement.

____________

 

Sorry it's not as quick as you may ahve needed -only just seen the email!

[un1boy]

if you were to cca bank regarding an overdraft and there was no agreement, would that become unenforceable? its still lending with no agreement?

 

I'm not sure mate, I would have thought not. However it would be best using a DPA request, as a CCA request would be inappropriate....if they can;t provide the original app with your request, try challenging them and see what they say.

[un1boy]

meagain, I think he was meaning if they cannot provide any proof of an agreement, even an application form!

[un1boy]

lol, ah i see, I thought you were referring to the credit agreement to be supplied under the CCA request!

[un1boy]

Absolutely

[un1boy]

Same goes for me too please Peter

 

Cheers

 

Michael

 

 

And me!! Please!!

[un1boy]

Exactly - you can't prevent children from looking at a website any more than you can prevent someone from picking up a tenner you leave on the street. The lenders don't choose the sites where online ads are displayed, and the sites don't choose which ads they get beyond a "porn/no porn" option.

 

Are you sure about this? Surely the lender's marketing department would know exactly which sites they are linked to, because a lot of them pay per click that is received!! Also, how would they know which invoices to pay and which to not?

 

As far as I am aware they know exactly which sites they are linked to, but granted, they have no control over who acceses those sites!

 

Which website was it that your son clicked on Terminator?

[un1boy]

Also un1boy appears to disagree

 

Hehe, and what I say goes!!

[un1boy]

If you say so

 

I was being sarcastic - the way you said at the end, and un1boy disagrees.

 

That's all!!

[un1boy]

The lender will pay an ad company to show its ads. The ad company will show it whenever the computer picks it out, which might be on any of the thousands of sites that carry their advertising code. Those sites may have chosen certain categories of adverts to be displayed or not be displayed on their own site (the most common is "porn/no porn"). The lender won't be able to go back and say "Actually, we don't want our adverts shown on this site", or "We got a good response from that site, please show more of our adverts there".

 

I believe one of the reasons we don't have banner ads on CAG is Dave wouldn't necessarily be able to select "no financial products", especially as a lot of them are keyword-driven (when one of your top keywords is "bank", this poses a problem).

 

So, they will know what sites the ad was displayed on and got them clickthroughs, but only after the fact. It wouldn't be them but the ad companies or the website itself that is guilty of any offence there.

 

Not all companies advertise like this - my company advertise direct to each site they want to target!

 

I would suggest then that companies should take mmore responsibilty for their ads by advertising direct and not through Ad companies, or reques that the ad companies should have more thorough ways of choosing the options as to who they can advertise to.

 

I would suggest in cases like this the lender and/or ad compnay should be responsible...especially seeing as the technology is there!

 

Also, seeing as net advertising revenue overtook any other form in 2006 there are going to be more laws coming in to refine and regulate it.

[un1boy]

lol, I know you don't!!

[un1boy]

I have just had a thought: Would a CRA be required to action a CCA request?

 

Under the defs of the CCA I don't think so, but it's worth a discussion because I think they should have to.

[un1boy]

He was on MSN when Capital 1 popped up.

 

You see, I think that is irresponsible advertising by the lender; eveyone knows that children use MSN and it is not possible to distinguish the age of the person usinng it.

 

If he had been on say a credit card comparison website, that would be different, but MSN?

[un1boy]

Under the defs of the CCA I don't think so, but it's worth a discussion because I think they should have to

 

I don't think the cca's are regulated by the cca, isn't it the Data Protection Act they answer to.

Anyway don't the only hold info sent to them by the creditor and registry on defaults ccjs etd they don't have access completete agreements.

 

Peter

 

Ah, I know - but I am having discussions with the CRA's to the tune of, "well if you can't provide a copy of any alleged agreements or terms that I am meant to have agreed to then surely the information you hold is defamatory/incorrect and you must have a responsbility to make sure that the informaiton help is correct."

 

Both the major ones have failed to supply me copies of anything, nor ahve any of the original lenders, so surely they must realise that they are holding our data unlawfully.

 

I know they are in between a rock and a hard place though, because they either remove the data at my request and risk breaching the contract they hold with the lenders, or risk having legal actio taken against them by the consumer.....

 

Would the CRAs have to supply a copy of any contracts they hold with lenders that mean they profit out of our data? So would a Data Protection Act S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) work?

 

I mean, if they have to disclose everything relating to us then we must be some sort of clause (either explicity or generally) in a contract they have with the lenders.

 

Any thoughts?

[un1boy]

un1boy, you MUST request confirmation or a 'Certificate of Destruction' dated and signed which you can refer to if your information crops up at a later date.

 

TideTurner, thanks for that info - You mean when I get all my info removed from the CRAs?

 

I have never heard of a certificate of destruction.