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    • I would suggest that you stop trying to rely on legal theory – as you understand it. Firstly, because we are dealing with practical/pragmatic situations and at a low value level where these arguments tend not to work. Secondly, because you clearly have misunderstood the assessment of quantum where there are breaches of obligations. The formula that you have cited above is the method of loss calculation in torts. In contract it is entirely different. The law of obligations generally attempts to remedy the breach. This means that in tort, damages seek to put you into the position you would have been in had the breach not occurred. In other words it returns you to your starting position – point zero. Contract damages attend put you into the position that you would have been had the breach not occurred but this is not your starting position, contract damages assume that the agreement in dispute had actually been carried out. This puts you into your final position. You sold an item for £XXX. Your expectation was that you your item would be correctly delivered and that you would be the beneficiary of £XXX. Your expectation loss is the amount that you sold the item for and that is all you are entitled to recover. If you want, you can try to sue for the larger sum – and we will help you. But if they ask for evidence of the value of the item as it was sold then I can almost guarantee that either you will be obliged to settle for the lesser sum – or else a judge will give you judgement but for the lesser sum. This will put you to the position that you would have been had there been no breach of contract. I understand from you now that when you dispatch the item you declared the retail cost to you and not your expected benefit of £XXX. To claim for the retail value in the circumstances would offend the rules relating to betterment. If you want to do it then we will help you – but don't be surprised if you take a tumble.  
    • I was caught speeding 3 times in the same week, on the same road. All times were 8-12mph higher than the limit. I was offered the course for the first offense and I now need to accept the other 2 offenses. I just want to be ready for what might come. Will I get the £100 fine and 3 points for each of them or do I face something more severe?  These are my only offenses in 8 years of driving.
    • I'll get my letter drafted this evening. Its an item I sold, which I'm also concerned about, as whilst I don't have my original purchase receipt (the best I have is my credit card statement showing a purchase from Car Audio Centre), I do unfortunately have the eBay listing where I sold it for much less. But as I said before this is now a question of compensation: true compensation would seek to put me back into the position I was in before the loss ie: that title would remain with me until my buyer has accepted this, and so compensation should be that which would be needed to replace the lost item. But in the world of instant electronic payment, it could be argued that as I had already been paid, the title to the goods had already transferred, and I was required to refund the buyer after the loss. And so, despite my declared value being the retail price - that which is needed to return me to my pre-sales position, the compensatory value should be the value I sold it for, which being a second-hand item from a private seller is lower. I still believe that I should be claiming for the item's full value, rather than how much I sold it for, as this is the same for insurance: we don't insure the value we paid, but rather the value of the item to put us back into the position we would be in if we ever needed to claim. Its for the loss adjuster to argue the toss
    • amusing that 'bad economic judgement on behalf of prior party ISN'T a major reason to wingers to move to deform yet immigration is, where record levels of such has been driven by the right wings terrible brexit and the later incompetent dog whistle 'proposals largely driven to whistle to the right wingnuts Just seems to confirm the are clueless numpties 'wetting their own shoes   Has farage bought a property in Clacton yet?   yet concern for the NHS is listed as a major issue even by those saying they are moving to deform  
    • Also, have you told us how much you paid for this vehicle? Are there any other expenses you have incurred – insurance, inspections et cetera? How far away from the dealership do you live?
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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N1 for Hutchinson 3G


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Guest Alison82

If an account has been defaulted and now closed but it has not been paid off / satisfied, can you still write to the lender and ask them to stop processing your data as the account it terminated??

 

I know your all busy tying James Jones up in knots but can someone please answer this as I need to know if I can issue my N1 for Hutchinson 3G.

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in my opinion - it depends why it has not been settled.

if it hasn't been settled because of unlawful charges, then yes I think you have a moral, ethical and legal basis to continue.

If, and this is the awkward bit, it hasn't been settled because you just haven't kept your side of the deal, then, again, just my opinion, I think morally the debt should be paid back before you can successfully argue the removal of the default.

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Guest Alison82

It hasn't been paid due to me not receiving a default notice and not receiving my cash back from the supplier, but yes you are right I should pay it back first, but technically I could get it removed as the account is now claosed?

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The law is completely separate from morals and if there is a legal argument then there is a legal argument ;)

 

CRA data is not used for debt-collection purposes so it will not affect the creditor's ability to recover the debt if it so wishes.

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It hasn't been paid due to me not receiving a default notice and not receiving my cash back from the supplier, but yes you are right I should pay it back first, but technically I could get it removed as the account is now claosed?

 

Once the default has taken place the terms and conditions end so does the contract. If you have not made any payments be careful you do not get a CCJ because that will stay on for 6 years. I do know what you mean about not getting your cash back so I guess its the charges that have given you the default. Best prevent the CCJ from going on in the first place if possible.

 

Hutchinson seem to be particually stubborn and difficult (reading threads about non payment on a broken phone).

 

Good luck

 

Lizzy

 

Halifax

Sent LBA
27/6/06

Been on hol for a week, got home found letter from them dated
27/6/06 offer of £92 claiming £1155.10 so no deal.

Filed claim with Moneyclaim 12/07/06

Halifax acknowledged claim 25/7/06

Court papers received 28/7/06 Halifax intend to defend.

HALIFAX SETTLED IN FULL 1/8/06

Donation made

Birmingham Midshire (mortgage charges) Prelim letter sent 2nd Aug 2006, full offer received 11th Aug with conditions.

13th Aug accepted offer unconditionally.

BIRMINGHAM MIDSHIRES (MORTGAGE) SETTLED IN FULL 24/8/06

Sent SurlyBonds template letter to get defaults removed to Birmingham Midshires 27/08/06

DEFAULTS REMOVED 5/09/06.
THATS 9 DAYS LATER, YES 9 DAYS

 

 

 

 

 

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The law is completely separate from morals and if there is a legal argument then there is a legal argument ;)

 

CRA data is not used for debt-collection purposes so it will not affect the creditor's ability to recover the debt if it so wishes.

 

Isn't it? So all those contracts that say "we may send off your data to CRA's to assist with debt tracing, etc.. etc.." doesn't apply :confused:

 

I was under the impression that DCA's use the CRA's to trace debt dodgers.:-|

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CRA data is not used for debt-collection purposes so it will not affect the creditor's ability to recover the debt if it so wishes.

 

sorry, that wasn't my point.

 

My moral compass says that you can't really complain about one parties breach of contract if you have also failed to keep your side of the deal. (I'm fully aware of the hazards of standing on the moral high ground!!)

 

Just my opinion.

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Isn't it? So all those contracts that say "we may send off your data to CRA's to assist with debt tracing, etc.. etc.." doesn't apply :confused:

 

I was under the impression that DCA's use the CRA's to trace debt dodgers.:-|

 

They obtain your address details yes, if you're moving all over the place, but your financial data is irrelevant at that point, which is what I was referring to. The CRAs play no role in actually getting the money back, their showing a default notice doesn't have an impact on that.

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They obtain your address details yes, if you're moving all over the place, but your financial data is irrelevant at that point, which is what I was referring to. The CRAs play no role in actually getting the money back, their showing a default notice doesn't have an impact on that.

 

Ok, but just to add. THE CRA say they don't process our data, but they do.

 

The CRA's are making people's personal data available to a DCA, so that means under the definition of processing in the DPA the CRA is processing our data by making it available.

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Guest Alison82

Thanks for everyone’s input, I'm not trying to get out of paying 3, I just don't have the funds at the moment but I need to get this default removed, I will propose to pay them back monthly.

 

Morals, they didn't care about morals when the recommended to their potential customers the bogus company that took my money!! Which I was going to use to pay them, and they did not care about morals when they did not supply me with any form of notice, not even a phone call to say "we are going to default your account unless you make a proposal to pay"!

 

Hummm a bit confused now!

 

Interesting point though Tobes, accounts with DCA's do not show on your credit file, I will need to check this out!!

 

So, by Law I could continue with my N1 and then pay them back slowly?!

 

Thanks everyone!! :)

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So, by Law I could continue with my N1 and then pay them back slowly?!

 

You are always free to claim against another person/company via an N1. You just have to be prepared for the other side to disagree and defend against you. Please just make sure you completely understand the arguments beforehand. Also at £150 a pop, they are not cheap and you risk throwing good money after bad.

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  • 1 month later...
Once the default has taken place the terms and conditions end so does the contract. If you have not made any payments be careful you do not get a CCJ because that will stay on for 6 years. I do know what you mean about not getting your cash back so I guess its the charges that have given you the default. Best prevent the CCJ from going on in the first place if possible.

 

Hutchinson seem to be particually stubborn and difficult (reading threads about non payment on a broken phone).

 

Good luck

 

Lizzy

 

I thought once an account was in default, then that was it - account closed. So can they then decide to put a CCJ against you for that account?

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