Iva Help?

[Wintry]

Debt Free Direct, Payplan and CCCS are all free IVA companies.

 

Hi What do you mean these are free IVA companies? They charge a fee to customers just like any other IVA provider. Thanks to the IVA protocol the fees charged by IVA providers are pretty fixed so I think this post is more than a little misleading.

 

Hello Nick

 

Agree with you here (not withstanding any up front fees as mentioned by other posters)

 

However I was just wondering what your opinion would be of any 'partner or sister Debt Management companies say' that may look towards introducing 'customers' to an associated IVA provider after first putting them on a temporary Debt Management Plan or charging them an up front referral fee perhaps.

 

Have you ever heard of this type of thing happening Nick?

Edited February 18, 2010 by Wintry

[Wintry]

Hi Nick

 

Thank you for a very steady reply.

 

I can definitely see the logic in what you are saying if all the payments and monies went towards reducing a persons debt while they were awaiting their IVA(S) to be decided, agreed, confirmed or maybe rejected.

 

Is this how it usually works Nick ?

 

If it does not, then would it not be better for someone to use an IVA provider who do not charge up front fees ?

 

I ask this with respect and that it is everyones personal choice at the end of the day.

[Wintry]

Hi Nick

 

Thank you for a very steady reply.

 

I can definitely see the logic in what you are saying if all the payments and monies went towards reducing a persons debt while they were awaiting their IVA(S) to be decided, agreed, confirmed or maybe rejected.

 

Is this how it usually works Nick ?

 

If it does not, then would it not be better for someone to use an IVA provider who do not charge up front fees ?

 

I ask this with respect and that it is everyones personal choice at the end of the day.

 

Are you still looking in Nick?

[Wintry]

Hi Wintry

 

I'm a great believer in the trial DMP system as I think its a useful for people to learn and adapt to the realities of livng in a budget before the more formal process of the IVA. The newly revised IVA protocol asks IVA providers to detail previous debt solutions put forward by the customer but many of the providers already do this anyway for the reasons noted above.

 

Hi Nick

 

Whats this then ?

 

http://www.credittoday.co.uk/news/news-item.cfm?news=2246

 

Nick, do BE still advertise, do, refer - or perhaps sell IVA's ?

 

http://www.demsa.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/DEMSA%20Code%20of%20conduct.Feb%2009_no_banner.pdf

 

Any comments or information Nick ?

 

Come on Nick lets be having you, but once again think long and hard before you reply (thats if you do of course)

 

I am quite sure you know what I mean:)

 

PS -

 

Just for the record - In my opinion Grant Thornton are one of the better IVA providers.

Edited May 14, 2011 by Wintry

[Wintry]

Wintry, apologies for the delay in responding to your, as ever interesting and at the same time a bit odd, post. Holiday rather than having to think "long and hard" was the cause of the delay (that is the odd bit of your post by the way and I don't know what you mean!). The information in CT was true and I'm heartened that you approve of GT; they are an excellent provider and our former customers are in very good hands. B&E will refer on to GT cases where an IVA is the best solution for the customer. Not sure why you linked to the demsa code but thanks for doing so.

 

Hi Nick, nice to hear from you again

 

"It is believed the decision to offload the IVA book follows a verdict reached by senior management at Paymex Group that the returns generated from IVAs had become insufficient to warrant the amount of work required to process them.

 

Any chance of expanding on the above pargraph from CT ? - statistical analysis perhaps ?

 

With regard to B & E referrals you mention (IVAs) how do these work Nick - I was just asking with an earlier post of yours on this thread and the demsa link in mind.

 

Yes, I will repeat my previous comment that Grant Thornton are one of the better IVA providers in my opinion (they amongst others do not charge any kind of up front fee etc as far as I am aware)

 

Also slightly off subject, Grant Thorntons Psychology of Debt and current follow up Training seminars are excellent in my opinion.

 

Do you approve of up front fees and charges etc as far as IVAs are concerned Nick?

[Wintry]

Hi Wintry As you'd expect, for reasons of commercial sensitivity I can't share any internal figures with which informed our decision. If you read the trade press you'll see that all/most IVA providers feel that the fees now received mean that many IVA's are no longer financially viable, esp for lower DI customers. Incidently there is a public policy issue here as if providers can't offer an IVA because they lose money on the deal, the customer may be denied an IVA as no-one will be willing to do one except on a loss making basis. As CCCS noted in the May 2011 issue of "Credit Today" "IVA fees are becoming unsustainable." A good briefing of this issue was also given at the recent Insolvency Service research conference (notes on IS website I think) where an IP noted that an average fee of £2800 (nom and super) over 5 years was simply not sufficent to do all the work required on what is arguably the most highly regulated financial services product in Europe.I don't think I can add more about referrals than I have said already; if an IVA is the best option for the customer then we will refer on to GT.Finally I don't have a problem with fee's, upfront or otherwise, as long as the customer is clear about them.As this has turned what seems like a private exchange why not simply give me a call as I love talking about all these issues. I almost feel I know you already!

 

Hi Nick

 

When you come on open forums quoting facts, figures, and statistics etc that in my opinion are set out to 'lets say' possibly market or promote the company you work for then you must expect to be scrutinised especially when you continue to mention the free sector. After all they are your claims, facts and figures.

 

In my opinion you have nowhere near backed up some of your claims on here and suggesting that this is a private exchange or sidestepping questions will not change or camouflage that.

 

I might give you a call to come over and see me sometime as we may have a number of interesting cases you might wish to look at, believe me they ridicule some of the posts I have seen here and there on a forum or two.

Edited June 2, 2011 by 42man
Telephone number removed...

[Wintry]

Hi

 

Just had a another read through the DEMSA code and found these two sections of particular interest -

 

7. Marketing, Advertising and Publicity

Members must ensure that their advertising or promotional material, whether by newspaper,

TV, Radio, website or any other media form:

 

·

Is clear, accurate and truthful, and does not in any way mislead either expressly, or by

implication or omission.

·

Complies with all regulations and guidelines in force from time to time

·

Contains reference to their membership of DEMSA and their adherence to the DEMSA

Code of Conduct, by use of the DEMSA logo.

· All literature must give details of how consumers may obtain a copy of the

19. Annex for Individual Voluntary Arrangements (IVA's)

It has become increasingly common for debt managers, giving best advice to consumers, to

offer IVA’s, and this Annex is intended to broaden the Code to address this.

The DEMSA Code of Conduct in this instance seeks to address issues which arise prior to

formal contract and approval of IVA’s by the Court and aims to encourage the highest

standards in the industry and to provide a high level of protection to the consumer.

An IVA is a formal scheme whereby debtors propose a full or partial repayment of their debts

to Creditors, generally through an authorized Insolvency Practitioner. Creditors vote on

whether to accept the proposal and, assuming the required majority is achieved, the scheme

is binding. The scheme is approved by the Court, who appoint a Supervisor to administer the

arrangement, in accordance with Insolvency Act 1986.

This Annex should be read in conjunction with the Code but where the requirements of the

Code do not apply to the operation of IVA’s, as governed by the Insolvency Act 1986, may in

that instance be disregarded. The clauses of the Code, however, which must at all times be

observed by members when setting up an IVA are:-

6, 9, 13 (paragraphs 1,3,4,5,6,7), 15 (where applicable and not governed under the

Insolvency Act 1986).

To be read in conjunction with Clause 7 of the Code

When advertising; marketing and giving pre-contractual advice on IVA’s DEMSA

members must never

· Use statements such as "free of charge"; "at no cost to you because your creditors

cover the costs" because they imply all money paid by the consumer goes towards

paying off their debt, whereas a proportion of the initial payments (sometimes up to

the first two years payments) is paid towards the practitioner’s fees.

· Claim consumers will be debt free in five years, without explaining that although they

become debt free, the effect on their credit rating will last for six years.

· Use statements such as "up to 90% of your debt may be written off" when in reality

the figure is nearer 60 – 70%.

· Claim they can guarantee a favourable outcome to negotiations with creditors, or that

"creditors are happy to help" where in the case of an IVA, at least 75% of creditors by

value need to accept the proposal for the arrangement to be accepted.

If listing benefits of an IVA’s other than stating its purpose for debt reduction,

DEMSA members must not:

· Imply that fees are paid by the creditor or that the consumer does not pay any fees.

· Fail to point out that the consumer's credit rating will be affected for six years and not

just for the period of the IVA, which is generally 5 years;

· Fail to inform a home owner seeking an IVA that they may be required to re –

mortgage their property during the term or obtain a remortgage to realise the equity

to pay off some or all of their debt.

When providing pre-contractual advice and information the consumer must always

be given advice that is in their best interests and should include:

· a clear explanation of all available options open to them, such as bankruptcy, debt

management plans.

· awareness of the requirements and procedures involved in an IVA proposal.

· a clear explanation about the fee payable to the nominee and supervisor of the IVA

out of any repayments made.

· Awareness of the implications of entering an IVA, namely:

o if they are a homeowner with sufficient equity they may be required to

remortgage their home to release the equity to repay

o some or all of the remaining debt

o if the IVA failed, this could lead to bankruptcy.

o their credit rating would be affected for six years.

o that the decision to accept an IVA proposal is entirely in the hands of

creditors.

In addition to Clause 5 of the Code regarding compliance with the OFT Debt Management

Guidance, DEMSA members providing advice and assistance with IVA's should abide by and

keep up to date with all industry standards, guidelines

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2011 by Wintry

[Wintry]

Hello againI think I have been as open as I can be about the facts and figures. I'm not sure what more I can provide as whatever I put in the public domain will always be open to question as its normally based on our own internal analysis and is also therefore often commercially sensitive. Posting here a marketing or promotional opportunity? I don't think you can be serious here Wintry, esp as this very site takes advertsing revenue from us via google to give a link to our website. I post here as I like the debate but in terms of recuiting new customers this is not what I'm in it for.If I was it would be a failure!The reason I suggest doing this off-line is that no-one else is joining in and as we probably know each other anyway, so lets do it face to face. I'd be delighted to look at some of the cases your advice centre/CAB has got so give me a call.Finally, I'm guessing again but you have probably heard me speak at IMA etc ( I was a founder member of the MAA , its forerunner by the way) and I'm am a passionate advocate of free debt advice but I have what I have said about the free and fee issues hasn't changed in over 10 years. As you'll see from my profile I was involved in it for 25 years plus in the free debt sector and I know more about its benefits and "issues" than most. In short I've paid my dues and am more entitled than most to take a critical look at what the free sector does and doesn't do.Anyway, lets meet up and look at this cases. Nick

 

Hi Nick

 

Thank you for your reply

 

In my opinion I feel that a number of your points are of a contradictory nature, on the other hand I do respect that there are certain things that you cannot (or wish not to) disclose on an open forum like this.

 

Looking through your posts on here Nick I cannot see much evidence of activity from you where posters are asking questions and requesting advice and support on actual debt related issues & matters, which is interesting.

 

I am not sure what difference it makes that no-one else is joining in this debate as two people are enough and others may still join in but to be honest that is unlikely now.

 

No organisation is perfect Nick but some charge fees (profit making) and others do not and I think I would be right in saying that we are on somewhat opposite sides here.

 

Perhaps you are right though and we have gone as far as we can on here which is fair enough by me and again people who read this forum can make their own minds up.

 

It has been a decent and healthy debate Nick (just like it should be) and I thank you for that.

 

Nick, with regards to the call and meet, I will see what I can do to sort something out, I am pretty sure you already know which direction to travel.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Wintry