outrage over new bank charges

[Bookworm]

And the source of this particular piece of crap?

 

Well, I had guessed it, but just for confirmation:

 

Taxpayer-Owned Bank Overdraft Fees: British Customers Pay £200, Muslims £15 : The British National Party

 

PS: How can it be "clear-cut anti-British discrimination", when a large proportion of born and bred Brits are in fact Muslim?

[Bookworm]

Oh, and it is nothing new, early CAGgers reported on this 3 yrs ago, when someone noticed it (can't remember which bank though).

 

And just to add to the controversy a tad, I'm afraid it has nothing to do with PC or not, but with free market. If you don't like Barclays dealings with Zimbabwe and supporting Mugabe's regime, then you bank elsewhere. If it helps you sleep better believing Co-op's claims they are "ethical", then you bank with them.

 

Please let's not make this a race or religion issue when there is none. If we ALL had to bank according to Sharia law, then you'd have reasons to moan. In the meantime, each to their own. Maybe my bank charges me more for going overdrawn, but at least I don't risk getting stoned to death for disagreeing with my husband, thank you very much.

[Bookworm]

this has nothing to do with racist

 

dont play that card ...

It has EVERYTHING to do with racism. :-? The BNP is making it so. "anti-British discrimination".

 

Oh ok, it's not racism, it's xenophobia. It's just the BNP doesn't use that word often because most of its members probably don't understand its meaning, least of all how to spell it.

[Bookworm]

well that explains it bookie

 

they know at the bnp how to push the right buttons

 

thing is

 

is it true or all crap

Well, it's a worry when you have to look to the Mail for a more balanced view, but if you read the link YB provided, it will give you a closer account to the facts.

 

Yes, they are sharia accounts, yes, they operate differently from non-sharia, but you can say the same about the super-rich people's accounts, I bet they don't incur the same charges regime as we do, etc, etc...

[Bookworm]

Indeed. The Mail article (which I read earlier on this morning on the site) doesn't start with the same highly inflammatory opening of "anti-British discrimination"...

 

Edit: that was in reply to YB, but it fits equally as a reply to Spark's.

[Bookworm]

well those accounts are off shore for the very rich and most are uk operated for super rich peole

 

look how say the jewish faith operates

 

most of that is by a shake of a hand and funds transfer

why are they not offering jewish faith accounts

 

thats just an example

 

there are arabic banks in the uk who are more than happy with uk law

 

chineses banks

 

they accept the laws of this country

 

the point i am making is we are stuffed by these charges why should a perticular faith be treated any different

Not necessarily. My point is that if Kate Moss is shopping at Harrod's and is a bit stretched for cash, I guarantee you her card will still get through with an invisible ceiling stretching into thousands.

 

It's not about accepting the laws of this country, it's about offering different products for those who want to use that different product. If there was no demand for it, they wouldn't do it.

 

Here's something else: If you want to buy a property abroad, say in France, a lot of the companies will insist that you get the mortgage through one of the French banks operating here, and a lot of British banks won't touch it with a bargepole.

 

It's called commerce. Let's stop turning it into what it is not. Banks will do what they want to attract customers and tailor their account and what they offer to those potential customers. Accept it or move to a bank that won't do it, and treats all of us as unfairly one as the other. Good luck with that, btw, because before religion, colour or anything like that, as ever, MONEY talks.

[Bookworm]

Yes, I know it is, I said that earlier...

 

I didn't say it was a marketing ploy, I say it is commerce. The law of offer and demand. Free markets. Call it what you like. If there was no call for it, it wouldn't exist. :-?

 

Edit:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/60563-islamic-bank-britain-zero.html

 

and this:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/70763-islamic-account-charges.html

 

Check the date. ;-)

Edited August 22, 2009 by Bookworm

[Bookworm]

(if you did I would have taken YOU to task but as someone else did, then I had to assume ignorance on their part ),

I did wonder for a moment... But when in doubt... Sorry! ;-)

[Bookworm]

the banks them selfs has a lot to answer to .

 

because they sould talk to there customer to what account would suite them . And not name account on religions grounds

Actually, in this instance, I think the media and the BNP have a lot ot answer for by trying to turn a non-event into something to stir intolerance and religious hatred... again. As YB said in an other post about Tesco's "new" bank, it's August and slow in news, so anything to generate traffic...

[Bookworm]

Yeah, but only so that the Jews could think there were people worse off than them!

 

*apologies for the awful, non PC, absolutely not meant joke*

[Bookworm]

 

 

.

[Bookworm]

Ok, I'll rephrase that:

 

PS: How can it be "clear-cut anti-British discrimination", when a proportion of born and bred Brits are in fact Muslim?

 

Sorry, Noom, I was misled by the media who led me to believe that we were being completely swamped by them lot, so that I thought the % was a lot higher. ;-)

[Bookworm]

I dont know why you should agree, bookie- the same thing happened in France.

 

Cultured Romanised Gauls overun and enslaved by equally hairy arrised Germanic Goths, Vandals, Franks and Vikings who eventually settled down and started calling themselves French and illegally invading poor old Blighty and then eventually grabbing great lumps of Africa, America and south-east Asia- just like the Brits!

 

Pot, kettle and black springs to mind...

I know that, but you don't see me going on about the modern invasion of France, do you?

 

I agree with Aequitas with the absurdity of the hysteria and double-standards which operate in Britain as illustrated by the article. Feel free to say that the same double standards operate in France, I would agree with you too.

 

I think you kind of missed what it was I was agreeing with Aequitas about. ;-)

[Bookworm]

Why- are Lloyds Banking Group now offering bank accounts to cater for the specialised needs of hoodies and paedophiles?

I would have to put a lot of "allegedly" in there to answer that question without getting CAGbotted, so I won't even try, lol.

[Bookworm]

It hasn't as such, both words are still widely used, but "muslim" is closer pronunciation-wise. There is also a theory that "moslem" is offensive to some, but have seen no confirmation of this one way or another and considering the word is different in other languages, I don't really think it is significant.

[Bookworm]

Bookie- does France take offence by the English pronounciation of the French capital? (Par-ris as opposed to Par-ree)

 

No one in the English speaking world takes exception to the French pronounciation of the UK's capital - Londres, though I would be interested in the reason why the French felt the need to invent a different word for it.

They didn't "feel" any need. Both pronunciations derive from the latin "Londinium". That's also the way it is pronounced in Italian and Spanish. It is in fact more likely, seeing the latin origin, that it is the local residents which mangled its "correct" pronunciation through the centuries.

Muslim/Moslem and offence taken.

As I said, there is no evidence that this is the case. It is highly likely that it is merely a pronunciation thing, for accuracy and nothing to do with any offence, unless of course the BNP can make it so, in which case let's spread a bit more venom.

This is an excellent example of the rather "precious" attitude often exhibited by members of this faith. It is this pandering to their sensitivities which rubs a lot of us up the wrong way.

It's funny, because most of the incidents which I have seen were NOT in fact caused by any "precious" attitude, but by over-scared PC public servants who would go to far for fear of offending anyone, even when no-one had complained in the first place.

Not so long ago they were refered to as Mohamedans and Musselman. My grandfather (Army officer in India in the last years of the Raj) refered to them thus.

"musselman" will be the mis-pronunciation of the French "musulman". All it means is Muslim and nothing else. As for Mohamedans, it can be an issue, simply because it implies that they would worship Muhamad (the Prophet) instead of Allah (God). You could laugh at that and think that's being "precious" too, but having studied the history of people who would torture and slaughter one another because some believed in one true God, some in a holy Trinity, some in reading their sacred books, in Latin and some in English, etc, etc... I consider none of us has the right to look down on anyone else on the grounds of belief.

 

Me, as a firm agnostic, I don't believe in much except that if we were a bit more tolerant of others' foibles and less indulgent of our own, this Earth may be a much better place to live on.

 

Back to the main subject of this thread: So banks offer different accounts to different people? Wow, what a scoop. Not. Why should it bother anyone, I do not know. No-one is stopping anyone from opening one of those accounts, if they can square their conscience with the other things that go with Sharia law.

 

Bottom line, as I, YourBank, Natalie and others have said, is that it is a non-story, whipped into a frenzy for people who are far too eager to read the first lines and not delve into the rest.

[Bookworm]

I consider those of us who have grown intellectually and dont feel the need for a magic invisible friend, have every right feel morally superior and to look down our collective nose at superstitous and ignorant bigots.

This is where we differ. Whatever helps you get through the day, I say. Everyone needs a crutch of some kind. For them, it's their god(s), for others, it's something else. As far as I am concerned, as long as they don't try to ram their religion down my throat, I won't ram my lack of belief down theirs. ;-)

[Bookworm]

Our relationship with the concept of "magic invisible friend* was that of a friendly loving father, not as some fearful, demonic entity to cower from.

Really?

 

But he stands alone, and who can oppose him? He does whatever he pleases. He carries out his decree against me, and many such plans he still has in store. That is why I am terrified before him; when I think of all this, I fear him. God has made my heart faint; the Almighty has terrified me (Job 23:13-16).

Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man (Ecclesiastes 12:13).

“Should you not fear me?" declares the Lord. "Should you not tremble in my presence?" (Jeremiah 5:22).

and let's not even get started on the concept of Hell as punishment for those who have sinned.

 

This was the pre-Christian postion - European pagans had no concept of loving their gods- they were scared ****less of them.

and since Christianity morphed with pagan belief to make itself accepted by the pagans...

 

Can you think of a single English word which encapsulates the meaning of "One who submits to God"

Yup: Faithful. Believer. Christian. Muslim. Jewish. EVERY religion relies on the blindly following, believing and submitting to the will of their god of choice. By definition, HIS will be done, therefore you have to submit to it.

[Bookworm]

I know, YB, awful. Bloody foreigners.

[Bookworm]

And this was a political broadcast on behalf of.....

[Bookworm]

I lived in France for a while and opened a bank account for ex pats. All the application forms were printed in both English and French and it was designated specifically as an ex pat account with its own terms and conditions.

 

I cant see how this is really that different from the Sharia account offered in the UK .....

 

If there is demand for a product then someone will supply it and at the end of the day the banks concerned will no doubt still be makng a profit.

Spot on.

 

laugh and joke all you want, I'm no racist and i don't support the bnp. its just my opinion based on what i see. and I'm entitled to it. I've made no racist comments. so the political broadcast bit is petty. you choose to welcome every waif and stray then fine. I would rather close the gate now rather than later. will ask you this though. why is England such a desirable destination?

By swallowing the propaganda spat out by the BNP and quoting it verbatim without checking your facts, you endorse them de facto.

 

By promoting in your opinion a "close the gates to "them"" approach, your opinion becomes a racist/xenophobic one. It implies that "they" are not worthy of living here, that "they" are scroungers etc...

 

It is also denying the reality that for every person desperate to get in to the UK, there is one or more desperate to get out and live elsewhere. It's called migration movement, has always existed and always will. Calling immigration a bad thing is flying in the face fo what history has taught us happens. We are a migratory species who became settlers, but who still have it built in us genetically to move when things get bad where we are.

 

Do I want to welcome every "waif and stray" (let's not dwell on how insulting that description is...)? "Mate", I don't care. In my neck of the woods, there are more white British single mothers of 15, drunken yobos, chavs with pitbulls sitting with their cans of lager, spitting, swearing, smoking and frightening old folks than there are of any other nationality or colour. And what's more, these people look down on those who walk by and dress or talk differently simply because they think their Britishness gives them innate superiority.

 

But I don't pander to stereotypes either. There are plenty of white British citizens who work hard, or try to. They are plenty of married couples who bring up their kids to be upstandign citizens. And there are people of different colour or creed who are complete misfits too.

 

Listen, I have lived in Africa where I was treated like a white princess by some and like some hated invader by others. I have lived in Greece, Switzerland, Italy, France, Scotland and England amongst others. Wherever I have lived, I have met good people and I have met *rseholes, and one thing I have learned is that their innate goodness or *rseholiness had nothing to do with their colour, race or creed.

[Bookworm]

Bookie-

 

You are a welcome and legal migrant to these shores and I love you dearly, but...

 

"Do I want to welcome every "waif and stray" (let's not dwell on how insulting that description is...)? "Mate", I don't care."

 

Is it really your place as a foreign national to welcome or reject other foreign nationals to any country other than your own?

 

Whether you care or not isnt relavent ,as this isnt actually your country- and as such, you dont owe any allegance to it ,any more than Brits owe any allegance to yours.

Oh, but I do. I have lived here for longer than I have lived in my native country, I am married to a UK citizen, I have borne 3 children who are all British and I have paid taxes and NI stamps to this country more than a lot of bona-fide Brits have. I am entitled to apply for UK citizenship and have been entitled to it for a very long time, and I would argue that my allegiance to it is that much stronger in that it is by choice and not by birth.

 

The difference is I don't think of myself of a country, I was born in France, and travelled extensively, and each and every one of those countries influenced who I am and what I became. But yes, sorry to state the bleeding obvious, but this is indeed MY country as much as yours. I live here, will fairly likely die here and have established a new branch of my family here, with a grandson born of 2 British parents. Where I came from is irrelevant, and I am quite surprised you should think it otherwise. :-?

[Bookworm]

Right backatcha. (Not the anglicised French lady part, obviously unless there's something you haven't shared with the group ) but I didn't say I was a Brit, I said that Britain is as much my country as yours. ;-)

 

PS: Do you know what my French relatives call my family and I? "Les Anglais" . Cast out by my own after my defection "outre-Manche". *gasp*

[Bookworm]

Im sure the older members of bookie's family could tell you what living under a fascist state is really like, and how pleased they were to be liberated from it by the older members of our families in 1944.

Actually, were thet still alive, Bookie's older family members, as bona fide, well documented, decorated etc Resistance cell members and leaders, would probably remember it as them liberating themselves with the welcome assistance from other luckier countries who didn't have to live under that shadow, but were very much at risk of being next. ;-) But that's a discussion for another thread. Edited September 22, 2009 by Bookworm

[Bookworm]

I know, such a bastion of Britishness, who knew?