Validity of claims management companies? Moved from "Unenforceability Cases on hold until further notice"

[I've got no money]

No wonder you are stressed and I am so sorry to hear that you have lost your job! (sincere)

 

If you are not confident about following the DIY route, thats fine. I understand that many find it daunting.

 

Why not contact a specialist solicitor, (Consumer Law) you should be able to obtain preliminary 'Legal Help' advice and assistance and if you are in danger of losing your home, then you may be given extra help.

National debtline are very helpful as are the CAB.

 

If you wish to use a claim firm, thats fine too, just make sure that they are, what's the word; kosher.

 

TD, you will still get help on CAG but start your own thread.

 

 

AC

 

I'd agree with that there are Solicitors who have housing, debt, benefits and consumer specialists - you could check with the legal services commission who will tell you who the nearest specialist solicitors are.

 

Whilst I accept that CAB advice can be variable if you visit a large CAB they are likely to have specialist workers or get the local CAB to get specialist advice either from the SSU or another 2nd tier agency

 

Yes - I also have an interest in that I am a member of a management committee of a CAB specialist debt unit that provides second tier specialist advice to CABx. One of our workers is on the editorial board of QA (the journal of the institute of money advisers)

Edited May 9, 2009 by I've got no money

[I've got no money]

It must also be remembered that not ALL claims companies are out to ripp the client off.

 

Otherwise.... how come the Ministry of Justice has not shut them down?

 

This argument needs to be balanced and fair.

 

This site does very well, out of advetising on it... the more people click on here, the more they make... other adds on etc

 

And good luck to the site, they deserve it for all their hard work.

 

Through the advice of this forum i managed to have a fair chunk of one agreement, which was flawed under CCA 74, wiped off and a Full and Final settlement reached.

 

But i know of a relative who, after paying a mere 288 quid got a legal team to quash an ENTIRE 12 odd grand agreement.

 

He filled in 3 or 4 forms and that was that.

 

When i got most of mine written off, i wrote endless letters here there and everywhere and the banks NEVER take joe public seriously, they will mess us about.

 

However, when they get a letter from a Solictior, they buck up their ideas.

 

So... 2 choses DIY and plenty of time and stress... but FREE

 

or chose a REPUTABLE Claims Company, pay a small fee and have it done for you by legal professionals.

 

Always good to keep the argument FAIR and BALANCED... otherwise it seems like an agenda is in place.

 

I think that you have a point but don't forget that when you are at the stage that most people find CAG that you're usually being sued. At that stage many people - who don't understand the system - are likely to qualify for Legal Aid (public funding) from Solicitors' firms which may well be free.

[I've got no money]

Hi Welshmam,

 

An online search quotes 8k of assets before you are illegible for legal aid. Not sure about equity in property though - the figure 100k rings some bells; but check because I'm not 100% certain.

 

One thing you do have to watch out for with legal aid is that sometimes you still have to pay costs. I was involved in a case where someone made an entirely ficticious claim on my house, I fought it (naturally!) and qualified for legal aid. The case was settled out of court, with the other side dropping their claim (hardly surprising since their case had no merit), but because I 'preserved' my property I had to repay thousands of pounds worth of legal aid. What my genius solicitor or the barrister didn't tell me at the time was that if it had gone to trial and I had won, then in all likelyhood the other side would have had to pay my costs.

 

As a result of this I am very wary of legal aid - it is not always free and can come back to bite you hard!

 

No I know the case I have highlighted is very different from those which most caggers are fighting, but just be aware that courts have some very peculiar (IMO) ideas about gains made or preserved.

 

Personally, I'd never risk legal aid again, and would only be interested in a CFA or a direct access barrister.

 

Everyones circumstances differ though, so perhaps one of the legals could post a sticky or something about legal aid qualifications and possible pit falls?

 

The statutory charge arises where property is recovered or preserved - and only arises where there is a shortfall in costs. Usually the rule is that the loser pays the winners costs - there is sometimes a small shortfall but it is usually only a small amount.

 

What should happen on a discontinuance - such as Underdogs - is that unless you agree to each side paying their own costs the person discontinuing should pay.

 

As Underdog points out - every case is different - Solicitors should explain in detail before they take a case on how the statutory charge works.

 

The other thing to say is that there are two types of public funding - Legal help (used to be called green form) advice - this allows the Solr to do quite a bit of work, although as a general rule does not cover attendance at court - although there are exceptions - and the statutory charge does NOT arise in legal help cases. Most debt work is done under legal help.

 

The second type is substantive public funding - this is the one that has the statutory charge - if it was a debt case involving a DCA and you had proper funding and won then the DCA/OC would pay your costs. I'd be surprised if the statutory charge arose at all in those sorts of cases. The Solr would explain it in detail and go through any risks. If they don't and the charge arises they can end up carrying the bill not you.

 

The capital limits are on the LSC website

[I've got no money]

Thanks for that very informative post, IGNM - you know more than my flippin' solicitor or barrister did!! wish I'd known you at the time;)

 

I was dragged into court four times, which ratcheted the costs up nicely for them. The judge would demand certain evidence (such as 3 different estate agents valuations), I duly got them, went into court and the same judge who had made the original order then decided on the morning of the hearing that estate agents valuations were not acceptable and I had to get a surveyors valuation - hearing discontinued and another date set; and another solicitor's and barrister's fee added to the bill.

 

I was totally stitched up to be honest - and was so much more naive then than I am now, so they got away with it.

 

Both the solicitor and the barrister told me (verbally) that I would not have to pay anything at any time. The case costs around 3-4k and I had to repay all of it in full. From your post it sounds as if they should have stumped up the costs for giving me the wrong info....too late now though:x

 

We all live and learn often the hard way unfortunately...

[I've got no money]

IMHO, "non dodgy claims management companies" is an oxymoron

 

At the end of the day they are in it to make money...

[I've got no money]

Yes, and so are solicitors, barristers, court staff, infact everyone i know who works does so for money

 

True - the difference is that there is a fairly robust regulatory framework for Solicitors, Barristers and Court Staff

 

I'm not sure about claims management companies

[I've got no money]

Hmm,

 

well there is the Ministry of justice

 

then if you step into the world of consumer credit, you need a OFT licence and then become subject to the OFT rules

 

id say the regulation is there, the question really is, why isnt it being used

 

I know - I've had that thought - perhaps its' just me but the OFT has never struck me as the worlds best regulator - I know that occasionally they do take action but it just seems to take forever...

[I've got no money]

This may seem likely a stupid thing to ask but has anybody tried getting legal advice and assistance under a legal assistance option in a home contents insurance policy either to bring proceedings or to defend a claim that a creditor has brought. I don't know if you can or not but I do know that lots of household insurance policies have optional legal expenses cover.

 

I also agree with PT - I don't see any problem in being professionally represented - being a litigant in person is not easy...

[I've got no money]

This may seem likely a stupid thing to ask but has anybody tried getting legal advice and assistance under a legal assistance option in a home contents insurance policy either to bring proceedings or to defend a claim that a creditor has brought. I don't know if you can or not but I do know that lots of household insurance policies have optional legal expenses cover.

quote]

 

I was wondering about that myself, IGNM - I would assume you'd be more likely to get help if you were defending a claim.

 

 

I'm not sure - I think for the sake of five minutes reading your insurance policy or the cost of a phone call that it would be worth checking.

[I've got no money]

This is all getting very personal guys...

 

Isn't the reality that CMC's fill a role in the market - personally I wouldn't use one - if I needed representation I'd use a Solr BUT there are good and bad out there.

 

We are all entitled to our own opinions

[I've got no money]

I have a claim in with solicitors at the moment.

they asked for my house insurance cover, to use incase of a loss,

i do believe not all legal on house insurance will cover this action.

 

I think that you need to check your individual policies - it takes 5 minutes and/or the cost of a phone call

[I've got no money]

what a load of Bo!!ocks

 

the law does not seek to enforce morals, there is no such thing as a moral offence nor can you be tried for breaking the spirit of the law

 

is it moral for the lenders to give out money to people who cant afford it? NO

 

but on the same token , people seem to throw the moral argument that youve borrowed it so pay it back

 

 

this is what the Law Lords said on the "moral" issue

 

pah:mad:

 

I agree with that 100%

[I've got no money]

The CCA 74 has forty plus pieces of legislation attached to it, on top of that there are numerous Office of Fair Trade regulation and guide lines the two principle ones run to 85 pages each.

 

Then there are the cases 25 plus of them then you have the various texts on Consumer Law (Goode in particular) Finally there is disclosure of the various documents that you need from the lender and assessment of those to see if they give rise for a claim for breaches of fiduciary duty, law of agency, Consumer Credit Act claims, and where a case ceases to be a claim under one head and becomes a claim under another.

 

Please do not mis-understand me. Some claims can be run by lawyers but becuase the lower courts are really only now just learning about these types of claims you risk losing at the first hurdle and in some cases losing you home because of the wrong application of the law.

 

 

It appears to be your contention that Consumer Credit is a complex area of law - incidentally it is no more complex than Tax or Company or public law or many other areas of law...you seem to be arguing that because its'a complex area of law that its' not appropriate for lawyers...

 

My experience is that the more complex the area of law the greater the need for specialist lawyers...

 

In my limited experience of CAG and consumer credit generally even non specialist lawyers can bring something to the party - that of course is an understanding of the CPR and of litigation generally

[I've got no money]

Consumer Credit law is complex becuase it is tied in with a number of other disciplines. I train lawyers to run cases under these headings (CCA and Law of Agency) and find that an understanding of litigation and the CPR rules is not of as much assisatnce as you would at first think. All lawyers are looking for other fee earning work, what this area of law really needs is agressive litigators..........its the only thing the lenders are their packs of highly paid lawyers understand.

 

Consumer Credit Law really is no more complex than any other area of law. It is basically a statutory scheme grafted onto to basic contract. I think that you are trying to make it sound more difficult than it actually is. Perhaps that helps with selling the courses...

 

As a rather aggressive litigator in my time - I would agree that Consumer needs aggressive litigators however I have to say that I do not accept that an understanding of litigation and the CPR is not of substantial assistance - surely if you're going to file a claim or a defence it is pretty crucial that you know how to draft pleadings and that you understand how to use the CPR to your advantage

 

With the greatest of respect if you actually use the CPR properly they are, in my view, of substantial assistance.

 

As any good litigator will tell you the art is not to get to trial it is to get the other side struck out before you get anywhere near trial. That is purely and simply about using the CPR

[I've got no money]

Incidentally - my exprience of the lenders and their packs of "highly paid lawyers" - is that the opposite is often frequently true - often the Lawyers used are little more than debt collectors with one Solicitor and lots of unadmitted clerks.

 

I think it is true that where a lender uses "real" Solicitors that the debtor needs good Solicitors of their own...but most cases don't actually involve real Solicitors

[I've got no money]

If we're going to list the number of cases and swop CV's - cos I don't like being left out :-...

 

I have been a member of the Birmingham County Court and Sheffield County Court Duty Adviser schemes - and have been the Housing Supervisor for several firms of Solicitors including the largest legal aid practice in the North where I was also a Partner and have managed and supervised the Housing, Benefit and Debt teams in that firm.

 

I was also recognised by the Chambers Guide to the Legal Profession - the one that you get in by recommendation - as a leader in my field

 

I have appeared in so many housing cases I've lost track - I can't claim that I've never lost one because the essence of a good lawyer is that you take cases that no one else will touch and win some of them - in Housing Terms I've probably done over 1000 cases and lost around 5%

 

In public law terms - at one point I was producing 5% of all cases issued in the Crown Office and covered all areas of public law from Homelessness to fine imprisonment to prison law to inquests to children act cases to education etc.

[I've got no money]

I kinda do think that credit law is fairly complex, more so than many others. this is not to say that you can't get to grips with it, but I think it can be more complex because it is a layer of law on top of a number of others.

 

In my limited experience the thing about Consumer Credit isn't that its' particularly complex - its' more that there's a lot of it.

 

I think that you need to adopt a really logical approach to it. Its' the sort of thing where you can devise a checklist against which you compare the agreement.

 

In fact there probably are checklists floating around

[I've got no money]

Ive been out cassed .....................why do you still not practise ??

Have you ever been in court on a CCA or Law of Agency matter??

 

Yes - I've run agency cases - I've also led in ADR in high value agency cases - as to why I'm not in practice any more - I became ill and left law - had a massive nervous breakdown...but I'm better now - thanks for your concern.

 

Am I going back to the legal profession I left - not on your life - the Profession I joined was totally different to the one I left...I know that it sounds crass but I actually joined to help people...but the more senior you get the more you have to make money...

 

There is more to life than money

[I've got no money]

My only ever defamation action was against a closed forum - where access was only allowed to members of a specific profession - it was a secure site with no public access - certain posters on a disussion board had defamed my client - not only did the site operators pay substantial damages but they were forced to put into place specific software to monitor the site content to avoid future defamation - it cost them a small fortune.

[I've got no money]

Interesting,why did you take action against the site operators rather than the posters who did the defaming?

 

The site Operators had more money...they were also able to prevent future defamations

 

Don't forget that in defamation cases that you can sue the maker and/or the publisher

 

The other thing is that the site operators were represented by Specialist Solicitors - in cases of this nature its' actually much easier to litigate and to negotiate with experts - the last thing that a claimant wants is an unrepresented Defendant who will just rack the costs up

Edited June 25, 2009 by I've got no money

[I've got no money]

yes but there's a downside to this rhia in that creditors will be much quicker to default and rush into litigation in order to preserve their position than they do now, also they will greatly tighten up their agreements and documentation in response and it will be much harder to find flaws i think but overall not bad news

 

I think that you're right that they'll issue much sooner - tho' to be fair some issue fairly quickly as it is.

 

Them tightening up their agreements/documentation is a natural consequence of us challenging (successfully) agreements