capital one cca arrived today, comical

[mak71]

Just opened todays mail

capital one have sent me my cca request,

well im exaggerating actually, they have only delivered me a copy of the current terms and conditions

accompanying letter says,

"please find enclosed a copy of the current terms and conditions of your agreement,in compliance with section 78 of the consumer credit act 1974"

 

then goes onto say my account is currently open and active and upto date, and when my next payment is due etc etc

also enclosed is an A4 glossy leaflet folded in 3,with all their terms and conditions etc,

No sign of an application form or any agreement, nothing even with my name on it apart from their covering letter

 

oh and if i want to call them its 7p connection fee then 2p per min

 

so im guessing this isnt my true cca,

 

Do i send the in dispute form back now, or do i give it a few days, do i need to send that recorded too?

Which template is the best one to send back now as ive seen a few,

do i send the one saying !i dont aknowledge any debt" in dispute letter?

or is that bit optional, is there any pros or cons to including it?

 

 

Thanks

Mak

Edited October 30, 2008 by mak71

[ScabHunter]

Oh, you've got to love (Al) Capone!

 

Wait until the 12+2 working days are up, and then fire off the "Account In Dispute" letter.

 

Why on earth would anybody want to call them when they make around 47289572485702489578209582958295823490573982698672967258967289675867896758967586785678567089670568708969089057890708967806786786787689567987697867856789567 nuisance calls a day to any number they can get their hands on anyway?????

 

SH

[rory32]

You could send them the following

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

 

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

[mak71]

Thanks

[mak71]

Think ive upset capital one,

They have responed to my account in dispute letter by now sending me a copy of my application form bearing no presribed terms whatsover,

 

 

And then go on to tell me its clearly an enforcable agreement and will be strongly defended:D and they will continue to persue me for payment:)

 

Ive now decided im not even going to waste my time writing back to them anymore,

I end up spending half my time these days replying to various credit card companies to which they just reply again with the usual nonsense anyway telling me it is enforcable etc etc or using fancy wording and terminology to confuse me,

 

Think i will get another folder to file letters in named "ignore" and only act if its of a legal matter ie court or court action

 

Playing letter ping pong with these companies who take no notice anyway becomes a bit tedious after the initial amusing element of it has worn off.

Not to mention the cost of recorded delivery and stamps etc,

 

How long does it usually take of ignoring letters and non payment etc till they pass it onto a dca,?

Edited December 10, 2008 by mak71

[seniorservice]

Mak71, I'm a bit further ahead than you with CapOne - been through all this denying that it's just the application form (don't think they actually have any agreements with the prescribed terms)

After about six months of hearing nothing the "account" was sold to Robinson Way. Wrote to them and they have gone back to CapOne and so it goes on!!

Corresponding with CapOne is a complete waste of time and money - they can't understand (or don't choose to understand) what a properly executed agreement is or the difference between terms and conditions and prescribed terms.

[nuthatch]

Good news for me though. I CCA'd Cap1 and their 12+2 days are up on 17 Dec.

Let's hope too many Christmas drinks have addled them even more

[mak71]

Mak71, I'm a bit further ahead than you with CapOne - been through all this denying that it's just the application form (don't think they actually have any agreements with the prescribed terms)

After about six months of hearing nothing the "account" was sold to Robinson Way. Wrote to them and they have gone back to CapOne and so it goes on!!

Corresponding with CapOne is a complete waste of time and money - they can't understand (or don't choose to understand) what a properly executed agreement is or the difference between terms and conditions and prescribed terms.

 

Agree, im not going to even bother wasting a stamp on them anymore

 

 

Nuthatch,they dont need xmas drinks to be even more incompetent, they are already very good at it

To be fair out of all my cca"s they were one of the first to reply, well before the 12+2 timeline, shame what they sent me was non compliant:D

 

Mak