Bailiffs have taken my van off my driveway, do i have a leg to stand on ?

[chris600uk]

Initially the bills amounted to approximately £1200, but by the time they added their ridiculous fees it soon rocketed up to £1800.

 

Well lets just start there:

 

Do you know how much you owed the council, you can ring or visit them, they've got to tell you.

 

Have the bailiffs ever been inside your property

[chris600uk]

So if I've got this right, they have only visited once to put a letter through, and once to take your van away.

 

And for this they have charged way too much it seems to me.

 

The first thing you need is the names of the bailiffs involved - don't post their names on the site.

You then need to check that they have a current certificate to collect for B&S, there's a central register but you may have to phone a couple of county courts to check - don't be fobbed off, it's your legal right to check, that's why HMCS post a phone number on the internet.

[chris600uk]

Then you must calculate the correct fees that the bailiff is permitted to charge, now that's easy for the letter visits, because you've only had one £24.50.

 

The levy is a bit easier, but removal isn't so easy.

 

Was the van sign written, is it on finance?

[chris600uk]

The van was also full of all my tools as it was used for storage as i had no where to store my tools.

 

You will need to make a police complaint then - they definitely aren't allowed to seize tools - and overcharging is fraudulent.

 

Do you know what tools were in the van and how much it will cost to replace them?

[chris600uk]

You should also make a form 4 complaint to the court that issued the bailiffs certificates.

 

I'll find a couple of template letters and you can adjust them to suit

[chris600uk]

Dear Sirs,

 

Re: XXXXXXXX Client reference XXXXXXXX

 

The purpose of this letter is to make a Subject Access Request pursuant to Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998, as I wish to query both the level of fees that have been applied to my particular case and clarification on your bailiff’s certification.

Accordingly, could you please provide me with a full and detailed breakdown of the actual costs that have been applied to my account, together with the reason for these charges. If any charges relate to van fees and attendance fees, please state the date and precise time of the attendance and the type of vehicle used.

 

Turning to the matter of certification of your company’s bailiffs.

From information provided by your company, it would appear that both Mr XXXXXX and Mr XXXXXXXX have been allocated my account.

I require as a matter of urgency that you provide me with the date and court details where they were granted their certificates and confirmation also that the certificates provide from them to work for your company.

 

I wish to put your company on notice that I if I do not receive this information within 7 days of the date of this letter then I will be writing to the Head of Revenue at (council) to investigate this matter on my behalf.

Due to the seriousness of the above, I have taken this opportunity to write this letter by both e-mail and registered post and I would like to request that you acknowledge safe receipt by return.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[chris600uk]

Now what is interesting is that the bailiffs are employed by the council, who are also liable for their misdeeds.

 

That means that you can sue the council for the fees that have been unlawfully charged, and for the tools that they have unlawfully seized.

 

You must send copies to the Council tax office, and make sure you find the email address of the head of the department, director of revenues, what ever it's called and send him/her one too.

[chris600uk]

as far as i am aware, the bailiffs have called round about four times and left letters each time stating 'removal of goods'. If they have called round besides these times then i are unaware of this as they have left no letter or sign that they had been.

 

I've been through this myself - they can legally drive around in an Abrams tank if they want to, visit you as many times as they want to - but they can only charge for two visits. 1st £24.50 2nd £18.00. Doesn't matter how many accounts they're dealing with either.

 

They can only levy if the levy is lawful and carried out correctly and by bailiffs holding current certificates, and then the permissable charge is on the back of the notice they're supposed to leave you.

 

That's it in a nutshell.

[chris600uk]

i dont want to sound daft, but i have no idea who the bailiff was who removed the van as there is just a scribble on the page where he signed it.

 

Not daft at all, it might suggest they didn't want to put their names, cos just maybe they didn't have certificates.

 

You won't know for sure until you get a written response from B&S

 

What I did was simple, I rang the bailiff using a telephone recorder and asked him to repeat his name clearly - found out his certificate wasn't valid - oh he had one for his previous employer, just not for the firm he was collecting for - that was enough, actually he didn't behave badly at all.

Anyway the law is very clear, you've either got one or you haven't, and if you haven't you're a crim!.

[chris600uk]

hi, can you tell me whether it makes any difference at all, that on the inventory form that has the details of my van that the bailiff removed, this form has not been signed by me or anyone else. It just has the reference no. Date, my address and the van details on it ?

 

No, first they levied upon what they believed to be your goods because it was on your property - they took Walking Possession of it, and because you didn't pay or challenge them in any other way, they took the van.

 

They had no right to take the tools as well, they should have given you notice of the removal so you could remove personal items and exempt items from it.

 

You must complain, you can use email backed up by hard copy sent recorded delivery.

[chris600uk]

1)It's never too late to pay bailiffs, that's all they care about so, no it's not.

2)If the levy took place before the sale yes, if the sale took place before the levy no.

3)Pleading for mercy won't help - they don't do mercy. Paying the council in full at this point won't stop the bailiffs selling the van, but it would stop them adding any further charges.

4)That's impossible to say - you might well get a result within the 5 days, but there is no guarantee

Edited October 14, 2008 by chris600uk
missed out the timescale

[chris600uk]

Good to see you back TT:)

[chris600uk]

What that means is you should ring the council and ask them if they have given b&s permission in their contract to charge a levy twice, as well as asking them for the amount stated on the liability order.

 

They've only levied upon your van, they can't do it twice if that's the case, overcharging is fraud and grounds for a form 4 complaint.

 

The Regulation 46 complaint to the Magistrates court might get you your van back much quicker, you do need to get it done.

 

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 in connection with distress

46.—(1) A person aggrieved by the levy of, or an attempt to levy, a distress may appeal to a magistrates' court.

 

(2) The appeal shall be instituted by making complaint to a justice of the peace, and requesting the issue of a summons directed to the authority which levied or attempted to levy the distress to appear before the court to answer to the matter by which the person is aggrieved.

 

(3) If the court is satisfied that a levy was irregular, it may order the goods distrained to be discharged if they are in the possession of the authority; and it may by order award compensation in respect of any goods distrained and sold of an amount equal to the amount which, in the opinion of the court, would be awarded by way of special damages in respect of the goods if proceedings were brought in trespass or otherwise in connection with the irregularity under regulation 45(7).

 

(4) If the court is satisfied that an attempted levy was irregular, it may by order require the authority to desist from levying in the manner giving rise to the irregularity.

[chris600uk]

Read this sticky it'll help with the form 4 complaint to the county court

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/115030-how-complain-court-about.html

[chris600uk]

Yeah! start filling in a form 4 complaint, you can download it here

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf

 

as for the regulation 46, haven't found that yet

[chris600uk]

The appellant makes a complaint to a justice of the peace and requests the issue of a summons requiring the authority whichlevied, or attempted to levy, the distress to appear before the court to answer to the matter bywhich the person is aggrieved. It is the local authority, and not the person who levied thedistress on their behalf, who must answer such a complaint in the magistrates’ court.

 

 

I think that means an N244 application which you can download here

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n244_e.pdf

 

 

 

TT, any comment?

[chris600uk]

SUGGESTED LETTER

 

The Chief Clerk

Anytown Magistrates Court

Address

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing to request that you issue a Summons against --Enter name of City Council-- by virtue of Regulation 46 Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regs 1992.

 

I am aggrieved by the levy carried out by ......... on ......... because the levy clearly fails to meet the requirements set out in the case of Ann Ambrose -v- Nottingham City Council.

 

I enclose a copy of the inventory that was left by ......... following the levy.

 

I trust this will be sufficient and please do not hesitate to contact me if you require further information.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

I can't take the credit for finding that one - it looks great!

[chris600uk]

So you now know what to do, thanks to KJD

[chris600uk]

No b&s cos the reg46 complaint is against the council,

 

the form 4 complaint is against the individual bailiff once you've got his name.

 

You could ring up b&s and ask for it, but don't get into a discussion about the debt.