Walk in possesion question - what else can they take...

[desperate1]

I have been in an arangement with a bailiff collecting a debt of over £4,000 in councill Tax (A long story of debt and employemnt problems of 6 years).

 

In arround May of last year - I allowed the balliff in who made a list of goods, and I signed a walking possesion order (I wish I had found and read this forum before now - but whats done....)

 

I have since made payments of £125 a month untill being untill becoiming unemployed in December. I did not contact the balliff and I am in defauilt of the agreement, I had a collection team call and leave a note through the door yesterday.

 

I have contacted the Coumcill debt unit who agreed that I could make the late payment now and catch up with another payment on the 26th Jan the original due date)

 

I called the Balliff - who thought the company would want a lump some payment of 50% of the total due.

 

The balliff then contacted me saying they would acceptt payments of £800 pounds (I just do not have this sort of money) we are down to rationing the number of bulbs we can afford to burn..... we are in a quite desperate position.

 

What really worries me is that the balliff has asked to make appointment today to enter and take our goods - but he says that this will not be limited to the items on the possision order but all items excluding the statutory limitations... Some items in our house genuinely belong to friends who have lent us furniture as we have had such bad finacial pressures, and also our childrens have CD players and the like. I work in IT and Photography - My tools of business are the only valuable possesions we have and I do not know how I can protect myself from them just ransacking the house - He implied that they would force entry if there was no-one in to let them in

 

The ammount showing as outstanding on the Debt is 4805 which is higher than the cuncill have on record so I suspect that charges have allready been applied - I did question this with the bailliff.

 

I would have thought that the bailliff would have to take instuction from their customer the councill on decisions affecting the affordability of repayments.......

 

This is about the final straw in debt problems going back too many years I really a desperate........ any advice would be hugely appreciated.

[Guest louis wu]

Although you will no doubt find help here, it sounds like you need specialist advice.

 

Contact the CAB and ask for an urgent meating. They should be able to help or find legal help in your area.

 

Best of luck

 

louis

[chris600uk]

Well if you have friends who have lent you goods, then the onus is upon you to prove that is so.

 

When the goods are listed on the WPA (signed by you) they are Seized by the bailiff even though they haven't been removed.

 

So any person owning goods on that list, should contact the bailiffs to claim that the goods should be released from their "legal control".

 

Up to now I've been suggesting that they do that using a Statutory Declaration, costs about £5 when already typed up, it's easy to do and I've got a template somewhere.

 

Next, stop making phone calls unless you are recording them and know the law where it applies to you - do it in writing, email backed up by royal mail recorded delivery.

 

Chris.

[chris600uk]

I have since made payments of £125 a month untill being untill becoiming unemployed in December.

 

So you are eligible for Council Tax benefit yes?

 

Therefore you can sort this out.

[chris600uk]

Whoa! hang on read this first.

 

I'm quoting from a post from tomtubby here:

 

If you are receiving Income Support, it is vitally important that you contact your local authority without delay. This is because they can apply for deductions to be made at a nominal rate from your benefits to pay towards your arrears of Council Tax. The amount of deduction is set by law at £2.90 per week for a single debtor and £4.55 per week for a couple.

The relevant Statutory Regulation is as follows:

Council Tax (Deductions from Income Support) Regulations 1993 S.I. 1993/494.

 

If payments are being deducted from your Benefits, under Regulation 52 of The Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) Regulations 1992, it expressly prohibits any enforcement action when deductions are being made from Income Support for a Council Tax Liability Order.

 

And once you are having deductions made the bailiffs are out of the equation:), I've been through this myself, so first ring the council and ask them to make deductions from your benefit.

 

Then use this template letter to deal with the bailiffs,

 

To: Bailiff Company

Date:

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Re: Account reference.

 

I refer to your letter dated (enter date)informing me that your company have been instructed by (enter local authority) to enforce a warrant/liability order etc against me, in respect of arrears of council tax.

 

In your letter you state that you will be visiting/returning to my home to (seize/auction etc my goods.)unless full payment of (enter amount) is made by return.

 

The purpose of this letter is to advise your company that I am in receipt of (income support/jobseekers allowance) and am enclosing as proof, a copy of (payment book/letter from benefits agency.)

 

I am informed that deductions can be made directly from my benefits to pay my arrears of council tax. This is provided for in the Council Tax (Deductions from Income Support) Regulations 1993.

 

For this reason, I would like to request that this account be referred back to (local authority) so that the relevant forms can be completed.

 

I am also aware that once deductions are in place, Regulation 52 of The Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) Regulations 1992 expressly forbids any enforcement action.

 

As I have now made you aware of (my/our) circumstances, and provided proof, if your company continues with enforcement action, I will consider making a formal complaint about the bailiff’s conduct to the County Court

 

Could you please confirm safe receipt of this letter, a copy of which is being sent to my local authority.

 

 

Yours Faithfully.

 

 

Remember, contact the council first, then let us know what happens.

 

Chris

[desperate1]

Louis - thanks for the suggestion that really helped I could get no answer from the CAB office - always through to recorded message and no queuing for calls - must have tried for best part of an hour.

 

However I found the National Debtline really helpful - go through to and adviser straight away, they spent an hour going through my overall position - apart from a lot of useful advice they did answer the specific questions.

 

1 Bailiffs can only seize items that have been identified on the WP list.

 

2 They can force entry once they have previously made peaceful entry

 

3 The debt once with a Bailiff is subject to agreements made with the bailiff - not the council, but you can ask the council to take the debt back - they would obviously need a reason to take it back e.g. the bailiff was being unreasonable.

 

Chris thanks for all your suggestions,

 

Unfortunately my eligibility for benefits has been compromised as I previously was not an employee but a company director, In 2006 I signed on each week for 10-weeks before they told me - for me benefits claims lost me 2 days getting to and from signing on and £10 in car parking fees, when I could otherwise have been looking for work, overall a negative experience. My work finishing in December was via a payroll company so I have been PAYE fro the last 13 months so I might fare better now - once I do I will follow up you later suggestions -

 

 

In the end I did find that the bailiff had had a discussion with the council and they had agreed to accept the offer of re-instating the payment. The advisor from the National Debt Line suggested that I make a complaint to the `enforcement agencies association'

 

thanks - not-quite-so-deperate.

 

Dan

[Guest louis wu]

Dan,

 

I'm glad things are looking a bit better for you.

 

continued best wishes

 

louis

 

 

 

 

 

 

(sorry about the CAB, I can imagine what you felt like doing to that answer machine:D)

[chris600uk]

Sorry I wasn't more help, Louis had a better angle I think.

 

Glad to hear things are looking up, good luck,

 

Chris

[rambo]

A couple of years ago I was having major problems with bailiffs and this is what I did.

I made a list of everything in my flat(took about 2 hrs) and sold it to my sister for £1000(nudge nudge wink wink).

My sister signed the recipt and so did I.

That way if a bailiff ever gained entry to my flat I could PROVE that the items in my flat did not belong to me.

If the bailiff asked why I had sold all my goods to my sister I would have said "because i'm leaving the country and when I go my sister is going to sell the stuff on ebay".

You must prove that items in your house belong to someone else.

You could say something along the lines of "I sold my stuff to my sister to help pay a debt and when I get infront she is going to sell them back when I can afford it".

[chris600uk]

rambo I take it that of course the paperwork shows that you'd already done that some time before the er, bailiff troubles?

[chris600uk]

Very neat, that then allows you to say that you have nothing, and no money to pay with - probably making the debt virtually unenforceable in theory.

 

Or does anyone else have a view on that.

[chris600uk]

Actually there is a particular religious group that does this each year.

They sell their stuff (all their assets, and it's worth a serious amount) for a nominal sum to a person they trust to sell it back to them a short while later for a similar amount of money, probably slightly more.

 

Anyway, it doesn't matter how much you paid so long as "consideration has passed" from the buyer to the seller.

 

Everyone must have heard of the tale about the Rollsroyce sold for a fiver.

[StormWarrior]

Actually there is a particular religious group that does this each year

 

Which group is that?

[chris600uk]

A jewish community in London, they make all their assets over to this one bloke for a nominal sum, then after the religious holiday is over they buy it back again. There was a TV programme about it.

[StormWarrior]

Hmm. could that process invalidate a SOGA claim?

[chris600uk]

What's a SOGA claim?

[StormWarrior]

Sale Of Goods Act, or in fact other consumer rights legislation.

Basically any claim where continuous ownership could be a requirement.

The legally enforceable rights of contract, would almost certainly be nulled by a sale, however short it was.

 

If you buy a TV from Currys, and then sell it to me.

I cannot enforce consumer rights against Currys.

And if you buy it back, you rights of redress are now to me, NOT currys.

[chris600uk]

I see, I've seen that somewhere called Privity of contract:)

[tomtubby]

Desperate 1

 

It is important to see if the Walking Possession in valid. The easiest way to overturn this is to see if the bailiff is certificated. Can you let me know by PRIVATE MESSAGE only the name of the bailiff that signed the WP and I will search or database for you.

 

Next, it is VITAL that you go to the Job Centre Plus and sign on. You can then apply for HB and CTB which can be backdated....at your request by 12 months.

 

Finally, what items were included on the WP

[StormWarrior]

You can then apply for HB and CTB which can be backdated....at your request by 12 months

 

Only if you can show good reason why the claim has been delayed!