BankHater Business v Natwest

[bambers]

Hi

 

I am in a very similar position to you. Against Natwest for £17,000 on our business account 2002-2006 - Limited company.

 

I have had a judgement against them in default, but they applied to have that set aside and asked for a stay at the same time.

 

I attended the hearing today and they sent an agent to represent them. The judge allowed the set aside but would not allow the stay. We are now waiting for allocation questionnaires. The judge agreed with me that the defence was full of holes but advised we take legal advice and also that we consider filing a (not sure what its called CPR 36??) to make an offer to pay what we consider reasonable charges and just claim for the difference, in order to protect our costs. He also advised that we ought to try and mediate with cobetts!! - I guess this would be very difficult, they are still saying they don't know details of the account or charges we are claiming for, after being sent them 3 times!

 

Just thought you might llike to know we are in almost exactly the same boat - and could possibly help each other

 

regards

 

Bambers:|

[bambers]

Hi

 

They fully accepted it was a clerical error on their part (they failed to acknowledge service after we re-issued POC ommitting UTCCRs) but they argued they had "a real prospect of defending the claim" - pretty basic really - I tried to argue that they did not intend to defend the claim and had been settling many claims of this nature prior to hearing, but the judge seemed to think this irrelavant and that they could not be blamed for seeing the commercial aspect of settling claims prior to court. I pointed out all the usual 'abuse of court process' charges were within statue of limitations (they say not - probably a template error), but all the same he has given the 3 weeks to put forward a "proper defence".

 

We got cost for today though £120.

 

Any advice?

 

Bambers - annoyed and confused!!!

[bambers]

Hi all

 

I now have to complete the allocation questionairre but am unsure which road to go down, the judge said it will be a multitrack claim due to size 17k, so shall I attach the standard terms of disclosure or should I try the new strategy (which mainly seems to be based around personal accounts & smaller claims)?

Also should I be attaching anything else?

 

I'm a bit confused and don't want to make a mistake.

 

thanks in advance

 

Bambers:rolleyes:

[bambers]

Hi Bankhater

 

In respose to your current situation, Natwest sent an agent (not a solicitor) to our hearing to have the decision set aside and the stay applied.

It was clear that the judge was not going to allow the stay due to the account being a business one.

 

What I did was sent a letter to the court by special delivery a few days before the hearing date outlining why the stay should not be applied eg Business account / UTCCRs not relied on/ etc. The time allocated to the hearing was 5 minutes. (it actually took 15mins)

 

The judge had pre- read this and decided a stay was not appropriate. You also need to prepare a schedule of your out of pocket expenses for attending the hearing and you will be awarded them.

 

I understand it is frustrating now that Natwest are saying they also want the stay lifted. I think that they are the ones who could request that judgement be made without a hearing, perhaps you could also request this.

 

hope this helps

 

Bambers

[bambers]

Thanks so much Steven, thats reassuring advice, I'll get on with it now.

 

Will keep posting progress for benefit of Bank Hater, who is just a few steps behind me!

 

kind regards

 

Bambers

[bambers]

Steven

 

Just a quick query on the AQ. (its an N150)

F. Proposed Directions - does the attached Draft Direction count & therefore answer - yes? (q. Have you attached a list of the diections you think appropriate for the managment of the claim?)

 

can't work it out from the guidance:-?

 

thanks

 

Bambers

[bambers]

Hi Bankhater

 

The stay hearing was at the beginning of this month.

 

These are the points I made to the judge regarding the stay:

 

1.The claim relates to a business account not a current account - there is no evidence to suggest the outcome of the test case will have any bearing upon business accounts

 

2. The test case is based around whether bank charges are a breach of the UTCCRs. This case does not rely on these regs as they do not apply to business consumers.

 

3. We stand to suffer financially, for what could be several years before the test case is fully concluded - with interest accruing as a result of the unlawful charges

 

4. Staying the case may cause some of the charges in our claim to extend outside the limits of the limitation act 1980, thus predjudicing our changes of succeeding with the case at a later date

 

5. The claim was filed before the OFT announcement

 

6. When it suits Natwest they wish to stay the issue of charges, yet they still wish to continue charging them in the meantime.

 

Send in your pre-court letter to the judge outlining the above. It will ensure you get everything in without worrying about saying it on the day.

Don't worry about the hearing, just have all your info in order for the judge to look at if or when he asks eg. bank statements, list of charges, your POCs, don't forget a breakdown of your costs for the hearing, time off, travel, parking etc. Even the agent they sent to represent Natwest helped us before and after in the waiting room!

 

Hope this helps

 

 

Bambers:)

[bambers]

Hi All - especially Steven

 

I am so annoyed and frustrated. I did everything as we discussed with the allocation questionnaire and the court have now ordered a stay again pending the test case! - instead of strike out/hearing date or disclosure. (remenber this is a business account)

I now have to apply to have the stay lifted again - this clearly seem to be a court mistake as I have already had the stay lifted by a previous judge at the same court which was done at a hearing. I am totally at a loss as what to do next.

please can anyone advice?????

Bambers

[bambers]

Thanks Steven, I'll try this tomorrow and let you know the result.

kind regards

Bambers

[bambers]

Hi

 

In response to my letter to the court about a 2nd stay being applied (although I have already attended one hearing regarding this and warded off Cobbetts application for a stay). I have now been given another hearing date for my application to have the stay (applied by the court without request from either party) lifted, so I will have to attend a virtually duplicate hearing - which seems ridiculous and cost wasting!

 

I am concerned that they may have found a way around upholding the business account stays, due to Cobbetts withdrawl from having the stay lifted in Bankhater's case.

 

Also at the last hearing the judge was of the opinion that the OFT case would have an effect on penalty charges generally and therefore would have a 'knock on' effect for all types of banking - I doubt the banks will voluntarily reduce charges on business accounts after the test case in the argument that the case only covered the UTTCRs etc!

 

Does anyone know of any really recent business stays being lifted? any advice/comment would be much appreciated.

 

Bambers:o