No probs LFI Many thanks for the input. I pointed out their shortcomings in a letter and the later LBA. I will send a complaint today. Glenn, I will have a look. Thank you. Just doing a bit of reading on line and it transpires that, if I’m reading this right, the Money Laundering regulations (2003) require the retention of financial records for 5 years beyond the termination of an account (if there is more than 15K euro transacted). To me, this seems to contradict HSBC’s assertion that they only have to retain data for 6 years. The 2003 regulations: I continued to pay HSBC until early when the account was settled, so I would say these regulations apply rather than the earlier (1993) regulations. In which case (and I hope I’m right in this) they would, by statute, be required to store the totality of the accounts data up until 2010? Any help??? Rosie

Hi Oh yes, the SAR was sent on 10.10. They have had reminders and an LBA. And N1 is filled in ready for a trip to the county court this afternoon - if the weather lets up. Many thanks for the ICO/OFT info. The account was defaulted back in Jan 2001 so it could be just what I need. I don't suppose you might recall where you might have read that?? Cheers Rosie

Hi I am endeavouring to get my data relating to an HSBC account opened in the 90’s and closed in 2001. The bank refused to deliver, stating that they only have a statutory obligation to hold records for 6 years. Not that don’t have the data, mind; only that they have no obligation to keep it. But whilst researching today I came upon the US Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002 which requires publicly traded companies listed on the US Stock Exchange to keep all their records for 7 years post audit and a great deal else. It seems to have caused quite a stir over there. Many of the institutions we're dealing with are listed, my two personal favourites being MBNA and HSBC Holdings plc. But there are others, Barclays Bank plc and Lloyds TSB Group plc for instance. I shall continue to root around, but if there are American lawyers or human data miners in the group with week to spare I would love to know how this might pan out in relation to our own data. Incidentally, they’ve all signed up to the Patriot Act as well. Forgive me is this is old news! Rosie

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Bravo!

Hi there... My understanding is that any penalty charges the financial institutions are unable to substansiate are recoverable. The point being that they are disproportionate penalties rather than a accurate reflection of the actual costs involved. Do you believe computer generated letter and a stamp costs £12.50?? Have a read of some of the of the stickies and the statutes. Rosie

Hi SL The more recent SLC loans are not subject to the Consumer Credit Act. From memory I think the cut off point was somewhere in the mid nineties. A quick search should verify it. Check back and let me know? Rosie

Hi BA The concealment really sounds a bit underhanded, but what I can't my head around is whether by purporting to be someone else they have either broken the law or the terms of the contract ... The CCA doesn't seem to define assignment (if that is what MBNA have done in taking over the card). And consequently, I can't really see much in it which would preclude what they are doing, but it does seem very wrong to me. There must be some other bit of legislation I haven't read yet. Can you enlighten me? I obviously need to read up a bit... So little time and so many statutes, eh?

Hi BA Thanks for visiting my thread yesterday. Just a quick question... Have you sent CCA s77 & 78 requests to this lot? Cheers Rosie

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Brief update... They insist that I still owe them so I'll be ecalating my complaint and taking the S.A.R/CCA route to try to get some documentary evidence. It is a matter of principal, so I will see this through. But, I do wish there was some mechanism whereby I could invoice them for all the time they're wasting.

Hi Alyx I take hope from the fact that the account is over six years old. They have already stated in previous communications with me that they do not retain or are "not required" to hold any information over that age. So, if they can't actually find any agreement they have no basis for the continued processing of my data in relation to the CRA's. If they do find it they will need to eat a large piece of humble pie and explain to me why can't they send me the rest of the info I've ask for. The phrase "between a rock and a hard place" seems apt for the bind they have left themselves in.

Finally got a reply... Not the best grammar I've ever read (not that I should be one to criticise on that basis,) and fairly non-comittal, but at least they bothered to read my letter Ho hum

Hi I'm not quite sure if I'm getting the right angle on this, but was the HSBC defaulted account bought by Wescot and then settled? If the dca bought the debt, then its likely that the responsibility for processing your data would have been passed over too. But, with any settled agreement the contract has been terminated, so a request for information based on that contract wouldn't really be the way to go. If the aoutstanding amount invloved unlawful bank charges you could use one of the standard reclamation templates. If not why not use the DPA templates? I can sympathise with the phone co situation. Orange defaulted me for £100 and then £175 a week later. This, after terminating my account with them 3 months previously, having paid my account in full. They are, of course, completely ignoring me too. Best of luck Rosie

Hi I just rang MBNA and HSBC, gave them my address at the time, mother's maiden name etc., and they were (with a little bit of cajoling) happy to oblige. Rosie

Hi Battleaxe I'm filing N1s to get my SAR's fulfilled by both MBNA and HSBC shortly. Is this becoming a more common stalling tactic, do you think? I'll be following your thread with interest. Rosie

Awaiting a response to my last letter at the moment. They have around 3 days to comply with the Banking Code. I'll post it when it gets to me. Rosie

It's an interesting point that default dates might shuffle along with assignment. I'd imagine that the original date would be the one the DCA would have to stick with if they had, within the terms of the assignment, taken over the role of processing your data; and I'd be interested in whether they would have to prove that they taken on this role. So, IMO the original default notice would be relevant. If they hadn't taken over the data processing role (or couldn't prove it?) then issuing a default would be a definite no-no IMO. Which, again would seem to indicate to me that when a debt passes to DCA under assignment the "rights and duties" pass to them under the original agreement as s189. Within the currency of the agreement, and looking at it from the Data Protection Act POV, shuffling the date along would seem to be inaccurate data and hence subject to amendment. After an agreement is terminated, I'm not quite sure what legal duties the DCA's might be in relation to the retention of data; possibly similar to that of the banks. I just believe they have no right to process my data in tandem with the CRA's as there is under statute no duty upon them to do so. HSBC tried to prove their continued processing of my data thus: Which to an extent is fine, where they do have a legal obligation under the money laundering regulations etc. Their T&C’s don’t give them the right to process my data indefinitely as pointed out in SB’s template. So… From the Act: And again: Which seems to give them no right whatsoever. Excuse me if this is a bit long-winded, and God forbid, I’m not trying to teach my grandma to suck eggs here. This is just some of my thinking on it, as nicked from some other threads and a bit of bedtime reading.

There is no reason to not claim them back, Mike. Its your money that they have taken. They owe it to you. Out of interest, have you done submitted your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) yet? If you can prove that the charges pushed you into a situation were the bank defaulted you, dealing with the default as part of that claim might be simpler. R

Hey Mike Welcome. It's a hell of a learning curve! But worth every minute IMO. Dayglo's thread is excellent, as are a few others. SurlyBond's letter has been used to good effect, but the banks (or at least my bank ) seem to have a standard response to it now. I am nowhere near as well informed as some on here, but have a look at my thread on this one if you haven't already. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/44964-hsbc-default.html Questions and comments are most welcome. And a good read of the Data Protection Act will help too. Anyone (along with SB, Dayglo and others) who gleans an understanding of it would, I'm sure, be most welcome. All the best Rosie

Hi I have been reading the relevant threads avidly. My own Default/Data Protection Act debate with HSBC is ongoing and has lead me to the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 and various amendments. I'll post the relevant bits, if it is at all useful, when the TSO send it to me. In the meantime I'm with Stiffnuts on this one. It seems to me from reading the CCA and OFT Matters arising during the lifetime of an agreement puplication that termination seems to apply mostly to HP type agreements or in early settlements as in: " A customer has the right, at any time before the final payment is due, to terminate an agreement by giving notice to any person entitled or authorised to receive payments under the agreement. He would, of course, be liable to pay any arrears which existed at the termination and to return the goods to the trader." It seems quite clear that default and termination are two different things under the act. It deals specifically with both notices in differing ways. I know what you mean though... The definative statement still eludes me:-| Cheers Rosie

Hi Thomper When and how they answer letters id really pretty random. After a proper SAR I received, one calander month later, a list containing 12 charges and a demand for a tenner. Harrumph I am claiming back the mis-sold PPI aswell. Cheers Rosie

Some of the people who apply these markers are pretty careless. It may just be an oversight. Perhaps time for a nice letter to them explaining that everything is hunky dory, why the default?

Let me get this right. Have you still got functioning relationship with the original creditor? If they issued a default notice and you then set matters straight within the timescale of the notice the default should not be registered with the CRA's at all. Is this whats happening here? Do you still have a copy of the notice?

Hi Dennis Have you got some more information about how the debt was incurred and whether it is now settled. Rosie