I'm not aware of any guidelines that allow the NHS the freedom to refuse patients who need hospital care. In fact I believe they have a legal obligation to provide it.

Before you continue making different points, who is it that you believe is leaving people to die in care homes or in their own homes? I'm just interested to know who you think it is, that's all.

It might be a 'point' but it's entirely irrelevant to the as yet unsubstantiated claim that ''people were left to die in care homes or in their own homes''. Clearly.

I might be missing something but in both those cases the patients died in hospital. How does that chime with them being left to die in care homes or at home?

When you say 'left to die', by whom?

I think it's generally accepted that it has been effective. Yes it has been achieved but only so far. If we get to a point of sustaining 100,000 deaths very quickly the NHS would be on it's knees and utterly paralysed, which would put everyone's health at risk. That's the difference.

You're not wrong on the flu plan but generally as a nation we only have ourselves to blame for electing successive Tory governments for the last 20 odd years in the full knowledge that Conservative governments = less government and less government machinery to plan for and equip ourselves for threats - with the exception of defence where Labour would leave us extremely vulnerable. On the data risk of the app I'd place more trust in the government than I ever would with the likes of Google and Apple.

I'd be genuinely interested to know if anyone agrees with this, ie that it's more likely that UK Government policy was to purposely allow the virus infect and exterminate the poor, than their official stated policy. Anyone?

I'm happy to listen to anyone but I'll choose who and what I respond to.

If I thought you were capable of honest and objective debate I'd answer you.

Opinion's fine (when it has at least some factual basis). Misinformation isn't.

Excess mortality is not a reliable measure of Covid deaths. Even if you think it is then why doesn't the piece use Vietnam's to compare it with?

So they're using the official death stats for Vietnam and comparing them with what appears to be their own 'estimate' of the UK's, the provenance of which is not disclosed. So hardly scientific. As some kind of moderator you should try reading some news that doesn't suit your agenda and make a bit more of an effort to discourage misinformation rather than promote it.

Groan. It's called Covid - 19 because it first appeared in 2019, not because it was the 19th Covid version.

I'm not sure that there's any accessing to do, it's mainly telephone work after someone has tested positive. So experienced telephonists would be the best bet I reckon.

Not sure what you mean here. You're proposing using volunteers but then saying there are qualified and trained people who could do it. Who are they?

The problem with using the excess mortality rate as a guide is that the virus and its social consequences have necessarily skewed the normal mortality rate. For example the lockdown means that there will be far fewer road deaths, work accident deaths will have reduced and social distancing will have reduced the rate of flu transmission and therefore deaths from pneumonia arising from it. On the other side of the coin there will probably be more deaths caused by operations being cancelled and people being less likely to go to their GPs and A&E for all sorts of things.

I totally agree with this and it's refreshing to see amongst the petty self-righteous and virtuous postings of those who have nothing better to do than find an enemy to blame and complain about what they think the Government did wrong.

Yes they are taxable income, see here for details https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2020/04/self-employed-help-coronavirus/

This is painfully simple. Shopping trips for food are inescapably essential regardless of the infection risk, family visits are not.

Slightly misleading picture I'd say. Goldman Sachs estimates that in the first quarter China's economy will contract by a staggering 9% because of C19, when it should have risen by 2.5%. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-toll/goldman-sees-chinas-economy-shrinking-9-in-first-quarter-amid-coronavirus-outbreak-idUSKBN21340T

Lots of hospitals are testing every admission regardless of showing no symptoms for C19, like Dalglish. Lucky that the hospital weren't relying on temperature screening guns eh?

I don't know it's just what the numbers suggested. There are good reasons for repeat tests off the top of my head ie clinical staff showing symptoms on several occasions etc I was swab tested last week at Stoke Mandeville hospital, it was couriered to a lab in Portsmouth and the result took 42 hours from memory.

That's just one day though for whatever reason. The totals figures tell the overall story. Maybe they're ramping up repeat testing.

That all sounds very worthy but it's naïve to think that the world is anywhere near capable of agreeing and implementing a global response to pandemics, or in fact just about anything. The world doesn't work like that. If coronavirus has taught us anything it's that nations will instinctively act independently and regardless of any existing allegiances. Where have the European Union been in all this? Nowhere, and EU nations have been uncompromisingly unilateral in their responses. Your colleagues have been peddling the theory that the UK applied the wrong response to C19 and you're saying we need an enquiry into it. If, as a nation, we aren't capable of agreeing our own response, what chance is there of agreeing an international one?