Good idea thanks i will do that .

Exactly so whats the point in laws ? my fella says just get the Karhouse fella to court so he knows what he looks like ad he will see justice done . That was what i hoped to avoid in the first place !

All commercial fishing boat owners are vat registered or else they would go bankrupt trying to pay for fuel .

The Office of Fiar Trading sent me a letter today saying "though we made considerable efforts to to help you with this matter the seller ignored us so you will have to take him to court yourself" . So i have to assume the office of fair trading actual exists to assist rogue traders break the law .

A friend bought a commercial fishing boat which will continue to be used in a business venture . The year old boat was advertised at 150k so he phoned to ask if that was the full price or is there vat to be paid . 150k covered everything he was told . All the correct paperwork from the vessel registery and departments of fishing etc were duly signed by both seller and buyer (a process that took months posting forms that needed both to sign back and forth) . But now he's told by the vat office he could claim vat back if he had an invoice and the sellers vat number . He has niether . The seller has long been a fisherman so is obviously vat registered and had the boat built only a year before . As the seller almost definately claimed vat back on the build my friend believes the vat man would send him a bill when the boat was sold (is that how it works ?) Hence my friends business should be able to reclaim the vat . The seller has always been good to respond to letters but never answers the phone . His general attitude is "if you need something signed just post it to me and i'll sign it" and has been true to his word every time . I wonder if someone could offer a template bill of sale that will not set alarm bells off when the seller sees it , that will also satisfy the vat man so the money can be reclaimed ?

Well just had an email from fair trading , apparently they've sent him a final letter saying make me an offer or it will go to a small claims court . I don't want an "offer" i want my money back ! . By the looks of things i should have just gone straight to the courts myself . On the bright side i suppose the fact karhouse has completely ignored the office of fair trading makes the case i was bound to win anyway even more solid .

OFT told me DSR definitely does apply in this case and if anyone should know they should . Regardless of the DSR law and the courts act on a simple bases of common sense (regardless how hard as it is to believe sometimes !) . I paid for an item then decided i didn't want it , i didn't touch the item before purchase , didn't even look at it . I didn't remove it from the shop and i certainly did not de-value it in any way whatsoever . In law this is a no brainer the money should be returned full stop . I'm not sure what , if any , powers of punishment a court can set down in cases like this but i'm pretty sure the judge would not be very happy with the seller for wasting the courts time . I of course would like to see this guy in court BUT i'm inclined to think this guy is a bogus trader and faces far greater consequences from an OFT investigation than he would ever face in a small claims court . Whats the betting he has never paid sales tax or any duty on anything , his entire stock of vehicles and even his home could be confiscated if customs and excise get involved . All for 350 quid - the plonker !

Warning Champix is more likely to kill you than smoking . It was released in America years ago but has now been banned because there are hundreds of libel cases because it is claimed the drug turned perfectly happy people suicidal . There are cases where people have murdered loved ones and all sorts . This is a mind altering drug which works in a very similar way to anti-depressants . When i gave up smoking after 30 years my GP prescribed Champix . I couldn't explain how it changed my personality as while using the drug i was not aware of any change . Thankfully my partner felt something was definitely amiss and so investigated both the withdrawal symptoms of giving up smoking and the effects and science of Champix . As a result he burnt my remaining tablets and only my refusal to tell him which doctor prescribed them prevented him from going to the surgery and turning the GP into a patient ! I quit after 20 a day for 30 years by following my partners simple advice . If you want to quit throw your fags away FULL STOP - don't talk about - refuse to discuss it and very soon it will cease to exist . Every time you congratulate yourself , or blame your weight gain , or even tell someone else how to quit , you are feeding it , you are keeping the craving alive . My partner still smokes simply because he wants to . I bet him at the time he could not follow his own advice so he quit for a month just to prove a point . I swear i could have strangled him lol because i know for absolute certainty he did not cheat and he is a very heavy smoker , but for that month you would swear he had never smoked in his life .

Thanks for that Conniff . The OFT phoned me yesterday it seems karhouse claim the £350 the kept was for leather repairs of some kind which i supposedly requested before the car was delivered . Fortunately i have the original advert all printed off to prove the car had no leather in it , and ironically i have since bought the only KZJ90 in the UK with leather seats from new . The owners manual states quite clearly Toyota did not supply the leather and it was outsourced to the buyers specification when the car was supplied new . Please note to prevent confusion the landcruiser 90 is a short wheel base 2 door car , whereas the landcruiser 95 is a long wheel base 4 door and did sometimes come with leather seats .

Sequenci you are correct the cartoon car is on their website . And Coniff i am inclined to think you may be correct but in the current financial climate this is exactly the sort of thing the gov wants to stop and hide as they may , all websites and vehicles MUST be registered to somebody . So i very much doubt it would take much resourcefulness to track down those responsible .

He has so far failed to respond at all to myself or the OFT . The OFT is in contact with his local authorities and have commented on the professional appearance of the Karhouse website . Its seems possible "Rus" (the only name i've been given by the seller) at Karhouse has pretty much offered himself up to be put under a Government microscope as far as his finances are concerned . I doubt i will have much more to report until after christmas but please be assured i appreciate all the advice given and will be sure to keep you all informed .

No response from anyone so i decided court is my only option . I phoned the office of fair trading just to let them know and was asked NOT to issue proceedings as investigation has begun and there is no question i will be refunded in full when the investigation is concluded . By the looks of things Karhouse might well have put his whole business at risk for the sake of £350 !

Hello again . I got a letter yesterday from trading standards stating they had written to the seller to explain why i am entitled to a FULL refund and that is all i have to report as yet . It seems there has been a fair amount of hypothetical debate since i last looked which i read with some interest . I have to say i feel it EXTREMELY unlikely any court would question the DSR and how it is applied in this case as the vast majority of monies has already been returned in reply to the DSR . Hence the regs and the duty they impose have been accepted by the seller . As far as i'm concerned the outstanding £350 has been stolen as the car never left the seller at all . Had the seller advertised a non refundable deposit of £350 he would be within his rights to keep it , but he didn't and therefore he isn't .

Thanks Conniff but i told him i will continue to Court for the full amount regardless of the part refund . Trading Standards have only just got involved and at my request they have not "yet" made my complaint official . When they call him today they will simply explain the DSR to him and let him know they are keen to investigate his entire business dealings if i ask . From some of the comments i've read on here i expect a full investigation will be something he is very keen to avoid so i hope to have all my money back soon .

OK so i got a refund minus £350 which the seller says Trading Standards and his solicitor advised is a fair charge for his inconvienience . This has become almost a joke , when he told me he was keeping the 350 i replied that i would have to get advice as i believe theft is a criminal offence and so that makes it a police matter . His response "call me a thief again and i will sue you for defamation of character" . I nearly wet myself laughing ! . I wonder what he will have to say to tomorrow when Trading Standards call him on his personal mobile phone ?

OK thanks guys , i will just wait and see how the fair trading people respond . I'm not sure how much power they actually have , i cant help feeling maybe i should just proceed to court without waiting . The very fact the fair trading letter came via my local council pretty much destroyed any faith i had in getting competent help .

Office of Fair Trading contacted me today by letter saying , and i quote "I have been led to believe that you are currently in correspondence with the seller of the vehicle . I would be grateful if you could keep me updated" I replied via email that Court is my only option without Fair Tradings intervention and sent copies of the last 3 or 4 emails between seller and myself . From what you guys are saying , Karhouse is not a company etc , it seems likely to me that there is no LEGAL way of getting either the car or our money back - Do i understand you all correctly ?

Initially he said he had already paid an outside company £150 for delivery , i made it clear i found that very unlikely but offered to let him keep that much for a quick and amiable ends to the matter . His reply saying he wants £650 resulted in my sending the rules and demanding a full refund including delivery charges .

Sad thing is i don't necessarily think this guy is dishonest , just peeved because the sale fell through and naive about trading rules . Nevermind , the car was re-listed for sale on ebay for sale AFTER i bought it and before i cancelled and it was never marked as sold on karhouse nor any of the numerous other websites on which it is listed for sale . So if a another buyer comes along maybe he will just refund my money . Incidentally when i offered to let him keep the £150 delivery fee as a gesture of goodwill for his inconvienience , he replied that he would buy the car back off me for £650 less than i paid because he wanted compensating for putting the car through an M.O.T . Earlier emails stated the car had a current M.O.T but on checking it had only 4 months left to run instead of the stated 9 months so he would renew it . My thinking is - if the car failed the M.O.T and cost £650 to repair to m.o.t standard , then he was obviously selling me an unroadworthy and illegal vehicle to start with ?

I just started looking into "how to start small claims proceedings" when C.A.B called to tell me to do nothing as trading Trading Standards are now involved and it is very likely the matter will be settled very quickly in my favour .

I sent - It has now been confirmed by a private lawyer , the citizens advice bureau and trading standards that the distance seller regulations give me a right to cancel for ANY reason within 7 days (extending until 7 days after delivery) and receive a full refund including delivery charges within 30 days . It was suggested i send you this link regarding regulations - http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advic...2B78A679E5FE1E You now have in your possession both the vehicle in question and written confirmation that the sale is cancelled . Should you choose to deliver the car regardless of this it will be accepted as a gift - (something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation ) . This will not in anyway affect my right as a consumer to a full refund under the Distance Trading Regulations . The reply - If you are not prepared to take delivery of the vehicle, then we will wait for you to come and collect. The car has been reserved for you as you have paid for it. If it is not collected within 7 days we will start charging storage at £20 per day. We stand by our decision and are not prepared to offer a refund unless offered to by a court. You are within your rights to pursue this matter in the courts. The vehicle will be kept in a locked garage until that time. I am still prepared to purchase the car back from you - but not for the selling price. We would need to be compensated for our expenses and inconvenience. I leave the decision in your hands. If you are willing to compromise please email, otherwise i will no doubt see you in court in a month or so.

Thanks sam but i have researched trasspassing laws etc and there seems no way i can stop them posting the keys . I am trying to prevent delivery and further complication . The car is at present in the owners possesion as is the written cancellation of the sale . If the garage chooses to deliver hoping to force a sale despite being told i will accept the car as a gift (through email copies of which will make up the majority of evidence) . I think it is possible i may actually empower the court to declare the car a gift . I dont want the car , even for free , i have nowhere to put it (thankfully i do not have a driveway) . I am simply trying to multiply the risks the garage is taking in the hope i will recieve a refund without months of inconvienience to both the garage and myself .

Great link sequenci Thanks i will send it however my main concern is the delivery . This seems to be a grey area of the law to which nobody can offer a ready answer .

Sailor Sam there has been no exchange of documents , just emails back and forth which clearly show our reluctance and indecision with regards to buying the car . In fact the very last email before sale was from me to garage saying , and i quote "phone him now before he changes his mind"

Karhouse approx 100 cars for sale on thier website and as far as i can tell using Google Earth satellite view these cars are all in stored together at the address given , Bellingdon Road,Chesham,Buckinghamshire,HP5 2NN . We have now been told by a lawyer , C.A.B and Trading Standards that the disance seller rules apply and we have every right to a full refund regardless of the reason for cancellation (which in truth is simply because we found exactly the same vehicle for sale a the following day for exactly the same price in mint condition with half the milage) . My fella says i should email the garage and tell them that as they now have written confirmation of cancellation and the car is still in there possession , any attempt to deliver the car will result in it being accepted as an unsolicited gift and we will proceed to court for a full refund regardless . Does that sound wise ?