Which is Enron??

Which 30 day mark do you mean SH? If it's the one relating to supplying a CCA then this has been repealed. However, I thought that in your opening post you said that this had been received anyway. For the SAR a 40 day period is allowed. Hope this helps!!

Personally, no Andy, although I agree Apex may be happy to get their money back. What I can't fathom out is why OC's don't just offer a similarly low F&F before selling the debts on. I think Egg, in particular, stink as arrangements to pay were in force on all of these cards and no prior warning was given. It may not be illegal but it's certainly unethical!! To Mel...they appear to have stopped ringing me now...it just seems to take them longer than most to react to the harrassment letter. I imagine that they are deluged with correspondence, the likes of which has never before been seen at Apex!!

Agreed...I escaped a parking ticket once as a solid yellow line appeared hatched after the gas board had been in and dug up outside of each and every property and failed to reinstate the lines!!

Same with me...I haven't bothered about mine yet, to be honest, as I'm never going to get credit again and they will both expire at the same time!!

I think you'd be better off with current daylight photographs anyway as the roadmarkings and signs may have deteriorated/changed since google visited!!

I think it would be relevant for means tested benefits such as Income Support, Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit. Think Job seekers will be ok, it's just if you're receiving anything else that may cause you problems. If they believe that you disposed/deprived yourself of your capital in order to be able to claim benefits then they may treat your claim as if the money was still in the bank. Are you receiving any other benefits Ally?

lol Andy...Postie's arrived with the exact same letter for me also!!!! Sorry Mel for hijacking your thread...but think it's useful for Caggers to know what comes next!!

I tend to agree with Paul insofar as I believe they share information. It actually worked in reverse for me. I went for an ATOS medical after one year on IB (now ESA) and was deemed unfit for work. At the same time I applied for DLA which I was subsequently awarded without any further medical or report from my GP. I believe they had access to the ATOS report especially as they drew conclusions that, in my ignorance, I don't believe I had sufficiently detailed on my application form. It's worthwhile Surfer just checking up on the point scoring system to make sure that all of your relevant medical problems are recorded accurately....and remember to make sure that they know what you can't do instead of getting you to concentrate on what you can!! Best of luck!!

That made me laugh Andy!! Did they also give you the name of your personal representative who would be dealing with your case in the legal section?!! Anyway, if they've got any sense they will await the outcome of PT's case which unfortunately, has been put back until 4th June but will establish a precedent for these agreements. I did eventually respond telling them not to darken my door but only because I have children and don't want them upset. Haven't heard from them since but hey, if they want to waste money litigating when the outcome of PT's case is unknown, then so so be it!! PS...how did you get them to stop ringing if you haven't contacted them? Or do you have TrueCall??

I didn't think that CPR 6 was relevant in respect of DN's and only applied to service of court documents?? I thought CCA 74 was covered by the interpretation Act 1978 and the subsequent Queens Bench Practice Direction 1985. I know CPR doesn't include second class post and always thought that delivery periods were more advantageous (i.e. longer as weekends not included) in the Practice Direction. Clearly I am missing something here!!

Well done for your persistence Shakey!! I have issues with the authenticity of my MBNA agreement (application form actually) where they have declined to respond to any communication asking for confirmation that page 2 was indeed the actual reverse of the agreement and furthermore, that the document is available for inspection. Strangely, the SAR only yielded the first page and my query regarding whether or not there was a page 2 has been similarly ignored!! I am sure it's a generic document... Anyway, I await the findings of your expert with baited breath and wish you the very best with this!

...or in layman's terms...PayPal is Judge, Jury and Executioner...and stuff any laws of the land!!

Best of luck Damsel...you'll get through this hun!!

Glad to hear it SH!! Yes, a Notice of Assignment is essentially confirmation that Apex has the right to collect on the debt, either because they have bought the debt or because they are collecting on behalf of Egg who still have an interest in the debt. When you had your first letter from Apex, was there another document attached to it saying that it was from Egg? Most of us had one that was headed Notice of Assignment of Debt. Although allegedly from Egg, this document clearly came from Apex and not Egg. Now, while Egg may well have given them authority to do this, I believe that sufficient doubt exists for the authenticity of the document to be challenged. I personally believe that it is bad practice to do this as it opens the way for any company to fraudulently claim they own debts and demand payments when they do not. However, I am not suggesting for one moment that this is what Apex has done, nor should you suggest that to them!! Merely point out your concerns regarding the notice of assignment you received and why you do not believe that Egg sent it...the fact that it was in the same envelope as the Apex document is a good start!! Hope this helps!!

Ok Flubber...deep breaths now and calm down!! Loads of Caggers are in the same situation. Have you checked out Melbel's thread (link below)?? She is going to send them a watered down version of the letter shown. Essentially stating that the agreement is unenforceable. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/231975-apex-credit-have-bought-2.html#post2805582 Have you sent them a letter telling them not to contact you by phone and not to visit you at home yet? If not, then now's the time. If you have already told them then you need to start sending off some complaints to Apex, OFT and Trading Standards. I don't honestly believe that Apex will be starting any court action immediately. Just like us, I imagine that they will be waiting for the outcome of the court case in Cardiff regarding enforceability of agreements. When Apex purchased these accounts I think they thought we would all be like lambs to the slaughter on the basis that we had negotiated monthly payments with Egg. How wrong they were!! I think you need to go back to Apex with a letter telling them to stop the harrassment. I would also be inclined to challenge the Notice of Assignment that was sent with their original letter as this came from them and not Egg, as far as I can tell. Also, when I checked my credit file recently, it states that the Egg assigned the debt in December and not November as Apex have stated. Not a major issue, I agree, but it still casts doubt upon the authenticity of the document that Apex supplied. I would also query what the second agreement is supposed to be that has Citi's address on it, as it clearly is not a document that you signed. I think it's misleading insofar as, I imagine that they will say it's a copy of the current terms and conditions whereas, the way that it is laid out, it appears to be a credit agreement containing all of the prescribed terms!! Hope this helps. DCA's are programmed to bully people and, as you know, you must always stand up to bullies!! PS...also check out SH714's thread here... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/249895-egg-apex-confusion.html#post2801782 She is going to SAR Egg which is also an option to check out when the agreement was sold etc.

lol that made me laugh....

I believe Apex have bought the debts as opposed to collecting on behalf of Egg. However, you are well within your rights to query this with them as the notice of assignments (at least in all of the cases I have encountered so far) appear to have been produced and sent by Apex. You can also ask Apex for details of the terms under which the account is being run and also, if any restrictions have been applied to the account. The reason I think Apex have bought the agreements is that when I recently checked my credit report it stated that my Egg account has been closed and the debt assigned. Oddly the date given for the assignment was last December whereas Apex started writing to me last November and claim the account was assigned then. Compare this with my M&S account, where I have had Collect Direct chasing me...this is still registered under M&S. If I remember rightly, Apex don't have a licence to run a live agreement so the account should have been terminated before hand...as you say they have done in your case. By the way, there is a standard letter in the templates section which you can use to tell them that you only wish to communicate in writing and not to darken your door step. They've been ringing me daily but I just ignore the calls to be honest and have no intention of speaking to them on the phone. I think a SAR to EGG is a good way to go if you've not retained all of your paperwork...I know I used to throw my default notices away in disgust until I found this site!! Just make sure you specify everything that you want, including a Comms log. Again, there should be plenty of templates floating around. I have to dash otherwise I'd try and find a good one for you!! PS Agreement dated 2003 is also good as it was pre 2007 and changes in CCA Act!! Also check the terms and conditions to see if you could only pay by direct debit as this could be classed as an unfair term.

This is a good link regarding full and final settlements but assumes that you have a lump sum in order to make the payments. Your difficulty is that you want to pay a reduced sum over a period of time and your creditors have to assess if this is in their best interests. National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 24 Full And Final Settlement Offers There are various factors that will strengthen or weaken your bargaining position such as assets...do you own your own poperty and is there a lot of equity in it? Enforceability of agreement and/or other potential flaws such as defective default notices etc. Also, if you haven't been paying, how close are you to the 6 year statute barred threshold...not really relevevant in your case it would seem Shinobi.

I've also heard stories of people sending bricks and the likes back and, because they have proof of postage, have won their PP disputes, even though it's clearly fraud. Fingers crossed, the buyer did genuinely return the item and it will show up eventually as Buzby says. I don't think you'll get anywhere with PP and will just have to chalk it up to experience I'm afraid.

Just to reassure you Husky Snow Dog...you can agree DMP's yourself and don't need a third party to do it for you although, I appreciate that some people like the "comfort" of this. I actually approached National Debtline first and wasn't happy with their advice so went it alone. You should never be forced to pay more than you can afford and I'm not sure what CCCS are playing at. There are generally accepted levels of expenditure for housekeeping, tv licence etc etc and you should only be paying surplus income on a pro-rata basis. I did find that National Debtline had a great brochure which gave you these figures and it may be as well to complete an income/expenditure form to see if yours or CCCS's calculations are more realistic. I'm guessing that you haven't sent off a CCA request to any of your creditors? How many agreements do you have, who with and when were they taken out? If you're happier going with PayPlan then please ignore my suggestion to sort out a DMP by yourself as it can be really stressful!! Best of luck!! PS...I'm now in an almost similar position to Pinky after stopping my DMP and sending off CCA's to my creditors. Just waiting for outcome on Egg agreements!! Whilst none of my creditors have "written off" my debts, and they still exist, they are uneforceable and hence, I am not paying for them.

Oh...and don't pay £400 to any company to deal with this!! You'll get all advice for free on this fabulous site!!

Ok, do a search for Apex / Egg and you will find that loads of people have had these letters...myself included... as Egg offloaded a stack of credit card agreements last year. Can't read your thumbnails but does it say "approved limit" and when was it taken out? There are several defects with Egg agreements and a court case is due to be heard this month in Cardiff. Check out Melbel's thread first as it's much shorter and she is in a similar position to yourself... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/231975-apex-credit-have-bought.html#post2570954 then check out PT's thread here... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/188093-egg-credit-agreements-what.html#post2024413 Best of luck!!

I agree you can self administer a DMP or other agreement, which is what I did. However, you definitely have to be licensed to broker an IVA. I'm not a fan of IVA's anyway Shinobi but I don't believe you will necessarily achieve your objectives in their entirety... Firstly, the debt exists, even if it's not enforceable in court, and the creditors will record adverse data on your credit file. Where no or an unenforceable CCA agreement has been supplied then I agree, you should stop paying them. Some creditors such as MBNA are keen to offer "short" or "partial" settlements, as opposed to full and final, which can be advantageous but you run the risk of them coming for you at a later date. I would advise against this although those who have settled seem happy enough...but it's early days yet!! Firstly, you need to get interest and other charges frozen on your accounts. I achieved this several years ago by advising them of my financial hardship and supplying income and expenditure details. However, all disposable income is then paid to your debtors on a pro-rata basis. Just ensure you include all debts, even those that you are not paying. The only way I believe you will achieve your objective of having the debts "written off" after a specific period is to negotiate a full and final settlement with your creditors, payable over a set period of time. My concern is that you have 2 loans taken out in 2008 and therefore, these agreements are regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 2006, not 1974. Section 15 of the 2006 Act repealed sections 127(3) to (5) of the 1974 Act which means that a court has the power to determine in its discretion whether agreements are enforceable in accordance with section 127(1) and (2) regardless of the breach in question. I'm also unclear as to what you mean when you say that the default notice for loan 2 was issued late? I would also check out the recent case of Carey when assessing if your agreements "contain" the prescribed terms or not. A lot of people think Carey only applies to s77/78 applications whereas, some fundamental principles were agreed in respect of s61(1)(a). PT explains this here... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/250212-costs-if-you-lose.html#post2806467 Best of luck!!

I thought you had to have an Licensed Insolvency Practitioner to administer an IVA for you??