I shouldn't of thought so. If he was riding a motorcycle, it is perfectly reasonable for him to wear protective equipment. My opinion, I would pay within the discount period. TFT

Why on earth did you get something from a Magistrates Court - this is a Civil matter? TFT

Quite frankly, I think we are blessed with the fact that Local Authorities deal with parking - imagine what it would be like if the Government decided it should be outsourced to private parking companies. There is unfairness all around; however, what would be the consequence if the council pursued only the driver not the RK - no one would ever pay fines or, more importantly, be deterred from committing any parking/driving (only certain offences) offence. Our road network would be chaotic and then we would all be paying the price. I have paid LA tickets; I learn the lesson and modify my parking behaviour. This money is also going back to the public purse, not in to some fat cat's pension fund. TFT

TFT

I am affraid that you cannot reason with unreasonable people and ECP are unreasonable people. The burden of proof lies with them to prove that your vehicle was where they said it was. If they cannot then tough luck for them. They only people that I would be worried about contacting is the Police and reporting that you believe your vehicle may have been cloned. Let us be clear, the only occassion on which your credit record would be affected is if ECP took you to court, you lost and then refused to pay the amount owed within 30 days. You would get a CCJ which would affect your ability to obtain credit. That said, for that set of events to happen would be extremely unlikely. PPC's often don't take people to court because (1) they nearly always end up with egg on their face (2) it simply isn't a commerically viable option. They will lie to you till their back teeth fall out. They will tell you about debt collectors, credit ratings, bailliffs, court proceedings - everything. It is all designed to scare. Always question the authority and power behind these threats. A private parking firm has the same legal status as your local plumber. Best Regards, TFT

Wise words

Thank you very much Bookworm. I have had a look at the template and will be sending it off tomorrow. I must say, you certainly do know your stuff. Best Regards, TFT

Hi Chippy, I am a fellow student (well, technically not as I have just graduated but you know what I mean). I went to uni in Bournemouth; however, I undertook an industrial placement year working for a company in Reading. Whilst working in Reading, a friend and I used to park daily at Thames Valley University car park, despite not being allowed to. After about six months we each got an invoice for £70, reduced to £35 if paid within 14 days. We both paid the £35 and that was that. Morally, we deserved it, we had saved well over £1000 by not having to pay for parking in the local NCP so fair cop. That said, after learning about the world of PPC's I decided to appeal the charge this year. Maxim told me that they will give me a full refund as soon as I provide proof of payment - this has now been sent to them. To be fair, I tangled them up in knots really. The correspondence I received from them was terrible, the formatting, the spelling, the grammar, everything. This is why I say that they are not very bright. My advice to you is don’t be a mug like me and pay it. As someone who has sued an organisation in the County Court, I can tell you that it would cost them at least £55 in court fees, before you even had your case heard. I dare say this is getting on for the amount of your fine. Add to this, they would also incur their own admin costs for preparing the claim. Finally, they have very very little chance of winning which means the risk simply isn't worth taking for them. These companies trot out County Court threats everyday; however, I for one can say that it is a long process. It simply isn't a viable business model for a private parking company to take to court every individual that doesn't pay. What will happen is that you will get a couple of letters from Maxim. You will then get a couple of three more from their debt collector's (this is often just another desk in the same office). Finally, you will receive another couple of letters from their solicitor's (again, usually just another desk in the same office). After this, all will go away.[/font] My advice is fully ignore! Court Cases are rare; however, it is widely thought that those most likely to be taken to court are those that respond to PPC's. Respondents get placed on a suckers list - the reason being is that they obviously buy in to the legitimacy of the whole PPC [problem] to write and appeal in the first instance. Best Regards, TFT

If someone sent you an invoice for a new car that you hadn't purchased or ordered would you pay it - of course not! Same principle - why do you feel uncomfortable paying for a parking service you have never used. If I were you, I would be more concerned about your car being potentially cloned. I got a PCN from Ealing Council for stopping in a yellow hatch - I'd never been to Ealing and it turned out that someone had copied my plates and used them on an identical car. Private invoices are not Local Authority or Police penalties. Of course, pay or appeal genuine PCN's/FPN's straight away but don't pay for a private service you haven't ever used! TFT

You cannot hide in this society. Is all the agro and hassle really worth it? As G&M says you either hide your car and never use it. Alternatively, you could respray the car and put false plates on which will lead to an even greater issue for you (criminal prosecution) as well as considerable expense. I think I would be coughing up personally. Trust me, you will end up wishing you did. TFT

Hi Chippy, I'm guessing your a student? I can help with this one as I too have had dealings with Maxim Security Services. What you have been issued with is a private parking invoice which has no basis in law, very much unlike a Local Authority PCN or a Police FPN. There are numerous legal defences to such a charge - unclear signage, excessive charge, not declaring who the driver was (as you have already mentioned). Also, does your letter actually state "penalty"? A penalty is unlawful in common law, only the authorities or organisations contracted on behalf of the authorities can issue a penalty. Anyway, how do they know you have contractually agreed if you weren't the driver. You have to know who you are contracting with before you enter in to a contract! Relax, these clowns cannot do anything. They are far from the brightest stars in the sky lol. If they do try to take any legal action (extremely unlikely) there are enough people on here to help you put together a cast iron defence. All the best, TFT

Take note Mr Brown, If you want to start getting voters on side, address scams like these that affect the little man and I dare say it would significantly improve your popularity. TFT

Hello Bookworm, Out of interest, what is your opinion on the legality of these new charging structures? Surely we cannot go with Test case take 2 - although stranger things have happened. I agree with your earlier post, it certainly seems to be an unfair term. TFT

As is often the case, those who aren't trapped are unlikely to move because this wont affect them - people seldom have o/d's if they don't require them. In any case, you are just as likely to be screwed by Halifax as much as any other bank. What a nice way to repay the tax paying public for the bailout that saved the bank. Thanks Halifax, means alot!!!

Please, don't let this worry you cupcake65. Firstly, the right to offset is not often used lightly; however, it is always better to be prepared for what can happen. All you have to do is move your savings to a safer place - take care of your assets first. Secondly, you could try applying to the bank for financial hardship and then see if they might freeze your overdraft interest and simply allow you to pay in an agreed amount till the point that it is closed down. Also, have you tired entitledto.co.uk - it is a website that will calculate for you all of your benefit entitlement - it might just be that you are missing out on a particular benefit that might ease your financial circumstances and reduce your dependency on debt. When it comes to paying off your overdraft with your savings, this all depends on what potentially will cause you must difficulty - a lack of savings or an outstanding overdraft. On one side, savings can be useful for unforseen expenditure - everyone needs a cushion. On the other side, an overdraft that you default on can cause you a lot of grief with collections etc, etc but is not the end of the world. With regards to being kicked in the teeth by Halifax, you are not alone - there are millions of us out there. At one point in time, people knew their bank managers personally - now the relationship between bank and customer has been reduced to defaults and law suits. In summary, don't worry just take the right action. Get your benefits paid in to an account that does not have any burrowing (and that is seperate from the Halifax). Transfer your savings to somewhere safer. Check if you can get any more government assistance. Workout how much of the overdraft you can afford to pay down each month and write to the Halifax and tell hem - if you consider yourself to be in financial hardship - tell them so and explain that you cannot afford their new charges and then go from there. There are a lot of people to help on the forum so you will never be without assistance. Regards, TFT

I sympathise my friend, I honestly do. Unfortunately, Halifax couldn't care less whether you were in hospital or not. In any eyes their behaviour is greedy and criminal. However, all we can do now is help you in reclaiming the charges. You will need to go through the County Court to achieve this. At present, there is an OFT waiver on bank charges claims whilst the test case is being heard. The good news is that it is currently awaiting a verdict in the Supreme Court which is due reasonably soon. First you will need to write to the bank requesting your charges back, template letters for this abound; however, I will provide you a link should you require one. The bank will basically write back with a load of nonsense about the test case and telling you to go away. Don't let this put you off. Write another letter telling them that you will take court action should they not comply with your request for a refund. * On each occassion, give them a 14 day window of response. They will write back again either offering you the full amount back, offering a partial refund or denying your request. If they deny your request, you will need to go ahead and file your county court claim (there will be countless people who can assist you with this, including myself). Also, you may get assistance with the court fee due to you being a benefit claimant. You will also be able to claim 8% interest on your claim when it is in the court system. If they offer a full refund - all is said and done and you've won; however, if they offer you a partial refund do not accept it as full and final settlement. Merely take the money and adjust the amount for which you will take them to court. Once your claim arrives in the court system, it is likely to be stayed pending the outcome of the test case. Whilst that is happening sit back and rack up your 8% interest. TFT

Hello cupcake65, A parachute account is a separate bank account with a completely different provider - i.e. a bank completely un-associated with the bank that you currently have your main account with. You may not know this but a bank has a right to offset which means that if you default on a debt/borrowing on one of your accounts, they can use another account with a surplus (i.e. your savings) to make good that default. This is why you must make sure that your savings are not with Halifax. I don't mean to scare or panic you but believe in letting you know the potential risks so that you may address them before any issues arise. You can set up a parachute account generally irrespective of your credit record and financial circumstances. Co-op is often cited for the cash card account they provide - I believe this account is not credit scored. Also, I will make clear; a parachute account is a generic term rather than a particular type of account. With regards to leon_heller's post, he is referring to the current bank charges test case which is now awaiting a verdict in the Supreme Court (formerly the House of Lords). It is thought that the banks will lose the case that bank charges cannot be assessed for fairness under the UTCCR (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations) which will allow the OFT (Office of Fair Trading) to rule on the fairness of the current charges. Ultimately, this all means that banks have had to come up with another charging structure that cannot be legally challenged like the current charges - hence the new per day charging structures we are seeing. Finally, be very careful with the bank that you choose for your parachute account. No doubt you will be aware that there has been much consolidation in the banking industry within recent time which now means many different banks are now ultimately owned by the same company. For example, Lloyds Banking Group now own Lloyds TSB, Halifax, Bank of Scotland, Birmingham Midshires, Scottish Widows, etc, etc. Your question of how can they get away with it is one on the lips of many people. Personally, I am disheartened but not surprised by the banks changes to their charging structures. I hope that this information may be of benefit to you.[/font] Regards, TFT

This is Halifax throwing their rattle out of the pram. What they are basically saying is we can't get you with bank charges as they are so now we have come up with another way of screwing you. I will certainly complain to the OFT. I agree, it would be good if we could get a template letter together so that we are all singing of the same hymn sheet then bombard Halifax and the OFT with as many as possible. I think there might be quite a few parachute accounts that need to be set up. TFT

So basically, the bank have backed you in to a corner and now they are trying to exploit that situation. If you or I involved ourself in such practice I'm sure be would be arrested. I hope you don't mind me asking, what type of current account is it - I just wondered because I have a Halifax account, albeit with a modest £150.00 overdraft - just want to make sure that I don't get stung. Mine is a standard visa debit account - nothing fancy like breakdown insurance or any of that nonsense. TFT

Wow, I think I will pay up and then take them to court to get it back. I'll look at it as an investment - I would never get 8% anywhere else - not even half that. Thank you for your reply. TFT

Sorry, just out of interest, you are telling me that they are going to charge you £1 a day for just an arranged overdraft, not an unarranged overdraft? TFT

Dear Caggers, The other day I received a bank charge from the Halifax for a failed direct debit. However, the direct debit was from another one of their businesses and I had no knowledge that even existed. I have been paying for something but haven't a clue what. My first question is, the account the charge is going on to is seldom used now by me and has no more money in it :grin:. Should I just leave it for them to charge it, take the account into an authorised overdraft and carry on charging it. The account is not credit scored so could they effect my credit rating? What would be the worst they could do? Many thanks, TFT

Ok, first things first. Is this a Local Authority PCN? TFT

All I can say is, if you ever clamped my car, I would have no problem cutting it off and scrapping it. You just get away with as much as you can! TFT

What would happen is that you would put together a sound legal defence which would be pretty straight forward with the help of these guys on here. Then you would show up at court and expose their claim for what it is - a sham. County Court is very informal - just a few people set around a desk in an office - a bit like the little meeting rooms in a bank. That said, the chances of them taking you to court are so remote that this really isn't worth considering. You must get clear in your mind that these invoices are nothing to do with Local Authority PCN's or Police FPN's. Whether pictures were taken or not is largely irrelevant - it might prove that you were the driver of the vehicle at the time in question; however, there would still be so many other legal issues for them to overcome. Also, in case you are not aware, it would cost them at least £55.00 to progress a County Court claim against you, plus all their other costs as well as time and effort. This is why they hardly bother - it simply isn't a viable business model. Please trust my advice, last year I got my first fake PCN from a company called A.S.Securi-T. I did my research, listened to the guys on here and never paid - nothing happened. Now, I realise just how silly this whole private parking issue is. These companies grumble on about taking people to court, believe you me it is a very difficult and time consuming process - I have been there and done it myself. They would have you believe they can have a judgement against you in a week - this simply isn't the case. Regards, TFT