Hi all again, Just received a 'General Directions Order' from Northampton dated 10th ... 'On 4/4/12 - The case was referred back for directions as the Claimant is querying the previous Judge's order' [RW querying the order to provide docs to me] and the judge orders that 'If any party is unhappy with the order they must make the proper application' I take that as being that RW wanted to set aside or vary the order and asked after the time limit and not using the correct form , but maybe also that if I want to request a stay or strike out I must also use the correct form (my letter to the court was recieved on the 4th, the day the judge made this latest order) . Does anyone know the answer to the following? I may just have to call the court tomorrow or Monday and find out if the case has been stayed or RW have paid the fee to continue.

Hi all, Quick update. I called Northampton to see if my letter had been bought to the attention of the court. No definitive answer on that but I was told that the case had been referred back on the 2nd April for a decision by the District Judge as the Claimant was unsure of some details (what detail I do not know). I can only assume the Claimant wants clarification on the N244 order issued by the court on the 16th March (date referred back to the Judge is after the time limit to set aside or vary the order). I guess I just have to wait and see what clarification the Judge gives them (assuming I am informed). My MCOL defence (holding / embarrassed defence pointing out the claimants CPR failures) was received on the 12th March - 28 days from the court service of my defence to the Claimant would be tomorrow or Thursday (allowing 2 days postal time). Does anyone know if they would need to inform the court that they wish to proceed by Thursday or does the N244 order (Claimant to supply docs by 30th March, my defence by 13th April) supersede that time-scale? Does my MCOL defence currently still stand? Many thanks for any opinions.

Hi Tiger, I may be wrong, but I believe once a court claim has been made the SB clock stops. Of course if the claim is stayed then I believe the SB clock continues.

Thanks gezwee, I guess I'm showing the court how reasonable I'm being to the Claimant in not jusgt going for an order to strike out - as opposed to the Claimant / IND ignoring the court order. I'm slightly concerned that if I was to send an N244 application fro strike out that it would be refused and £80 down the drain. I think I will just send the letter and see what happens. My holding defence via MCOL means that RW have until 11th or 12th March to pay a fee if they wish to continue.

Hi All, Draft of my letter to the court below. Any and all observations suggestions gratefully received. IN THE NORTHAMPTON COUNTY COURT, Claim No: ***** Between: ROBINSON WAY LTD (Claimant) v ****** (Defendant) Dear Sir/Madam, I would like to bring to the attention of the court the Claimants disregard of the court order made by Deputy District Judge ***** dated **** March 2012 (stamped by the court on **** March) – referred to as ‘the order’ for disclosure of documents that would enable the Defendant to prepare a proper defence and the determination of the claim. • In a letter dated **** March 2012, IND Ltd (agent of the Claimant) have refused to disclose all of the documents as ordered in ‘the order’ [attached to this letter marked ‘A’]. • To date the Claimant has not paid the Defendant the court fee incurred by the Defendant of £45.00 as instructed in ‘the order’. I respectfully request that the court avail itself of any/all of the following with regard to CPR Part 3, • Issue further instructions to the Claimant regarding disclosure of documents as per ‘the order’ and advise the Defendant regarding time for filling a full defence. • Put a ‘Stay’ on the claim until such time the Claimant complies with ‘the order’. • Strike out the claim for the Claimant’s non-compliance with ‘the order’. • Instruct the Claimant to pay the Defendant’s court fee incurred as instructed in ‘the order’. A copy of this letter has been posted to the Claimant’s address for sending documents as shown in the claim form.

Hi Ford, I submitted a 'holding defence' in-case my N244 application was refused - basically putting RW on strict proof that they had a valid claim, requesting permission to amend defence once docs were disclosed. RW did not object to the court order and as such I believe they are in default of the order. RW in IND's letter may claim that the docs are not mentioned in the POC but the court order clearly states to provide the docs mentioned in the POC - namely the agreement and assignment. Clearly the judge has decided these docs are mentioned and required to be disclosed. I'm not going to make a formal 'application to strike out' (I presume this would be another N244 application). My original N244 requested a strike out for non compliance but wasn't in the court order. I will just write to the court advising them of RW non-compliance and request further directions from them re the case, stay or stike out at the court's discretion. Gez, I am aware that RW Ltd didn't exist until 30th Sep 2009 (previously RW & Co 2009 Ltd - company created on 29th July 2009). Interesting link you posted - I will read more fully later today when I have more time. Skim reading is the gist that basically the claimant cannot amend their claim to 'fit' the actual dates assignment took place after the claim has been defended? Many thanks for all of your continuing support.

Well, spoke to the court today. The young lad on the phone seemed surprised to see an order from the court like my N244 one (I think they must be seeing more now with the tactics used by RW, Hegarty and IND). It has been confirmed that RW have not applied for a set aside or variation. He gave the impression that the judge would probably strike out the claim - though he naturally cannot give legal advice. I will post a letter to the court (CC to Hegarty) on Monday informing them of RW's disregard of the court order (refusal to provide docs) with a copy of IND's letter (I'll also mention the non-payment of my costs) and respectfully request they either issue further instruction or strike out the claim.

Not sure anyone would want to use their account:-)

Hi Ford, Thanks for your reply. No, so far they have not complied with para 1 of the order. I will phone the court tomorrow and ask if they have applied for a set aside or variation but I have not received any notification about this (the 7 day limit for them to apply would have expired Monday/Tuesday this week). It seems (to me anyway) quite clear that the judge expects them to provide the docs as most of para 2 was not ordered for disclosure as the information would be there in the docs from para 1. IND sent a copy of the 'notice of assignment' with their letter (shown below) - seems to me to be very late to provide notice of assignment (dated Feb 2012 - 2 weeks before the claim was made) as the account was sold by the OC in 2008!! Their NOA says assigned by OC effective 2009 and POC is claiming interest from 2007 - before they even purchased the account. Can they do this? When I call the court should I point out that the claimant (via IND) have refused the order of the court (followed up by a posted statement to that affect)?

Hi again, I've received a letter from IND re the N244 court order and they are not going to send me copies of documents needed for me to defend the claim. Still no payment by RW of my N244 application costs as ordered by the court either. The court order was for RW to comply by tomorrow, defence after a further 2 weeks. The following is my N244 application draft order, the court order and IND's response. Any suggestions on what I can do now?

Thanks vint1954, I'll review it over the next couple of days - think I have some of the case law bookmarked already.

Hi vint1954, I've not sorted my defence on a faulty DN yet - still have 3 weeks to amend my defence (2 weeks from the date on my Northampton N244 order for RW to provide docs in the POC). I will start formulating my faulty DN issues into a defence over the next week and add any further issues that RW's docs throw up (I have an idea that there will be at least 2 or 3 other avenues to defend on).

Hi tiger66uk, Not really sure if Hegarty / RW (or their appointed local solicitor) will turn up in your case - have you received anything from your local court regarding attending or dates? In my case I had my N244 application approved - RW must provide docs as per the CPR 31.14 request and answer my CPR Part 18 questions by the end of the month, my defence must be entered 2 weeks later. RW also to pay my N244 costs of £45 . No order for strike out for failure to comply - in-fact no order regarding what would happen if RW fail to fully respond to the court order. My MCOL defence was also acknowledged by the court - RW have until mid April (date is before my N244 defence is due in) to decide if they want to continue with the claim (if they do I believe the case will transfer to my local court). If RW do not inform Northampton that they want to proceed the case is stayed.

Hi tiger66uk, I don't know how quickly the claimant can enter default judgment if my N244 application is refused (don't expect it to be), the judge might refuse and give me 14 days to enter a deefence for example. The court suggested entering a defence anyway, just in case (guess I might be refused my application and not receive the letter from the court, then the claimant gets their letter and enters default judgement - don't want to risk that remote possability). Entered my holding / embarassed defence last night, processed by the court this morning. Now I wait to see what the court order / RW do next.

Hi citizenB, Thanks for looking over the defence, I'll amend as suggested. My first CPR 31.14 letter, even now, shows as 'being progressed through our network for delivery' on the RM site but is the one IND refer to in their refusal letter. The second 31.14 letter was delivered but ignored (identical letter as the first one, delivered before their reply to my first letter and I guess they didn't feel the need to reply rejecting it again). Should I therefore not include,

Hi All, Would appreciate your opinions on the following holding / embarrassed defence I have constructed before I submit it via MCOL. 1: The Claimants pleaded case is not sufficient for the purposes of CPR 16. The Claimants pleaded case is lacking the most basic facts and detail such as date of default, date of service of default notice, date of assignment, date of service of notice of assignment, date(s) of demand(s) made by the Claimant, and date of agreement, which has alleged to be breached. This information is fundamental to the Claimants case, yet no details are offered or pleaded. 2: On receipt of the claim form - the Defendant on [DATE], and again on [DATE] (as the initial letter dated [DATE] appears on the Royal Mail Website to have not been delivered), requested under CPR 31.14, documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim, via the Claimants solicitors Hegarty LLP, as can be evidenced by a Proof of Posting receipt (for letter dated [DATE]) and signed delivery slip obtained from the Royal Mail Website (for letter dated [DATE] and delivered [DATE]). IND Ltd, referring to my letter dated [DATE], refused my request in a letter dated [DATE]. To date the Claimant has failed to respond. 3: On [DATE] as IND Ltd had refused the Defendant’s CPR 31.14 request / the Claimant had failed to respond to the Defendant’s CPR 31.14 request, the Defendant made a request under CPR Part 18 to obtain information via the Claimants solicitors Hegarty LLP (delivered [DATE]), as can be evidenced by a signed delivery slip obtained from the Royal Mail Website. Yet to date the Claimant has failed to respond. 4: On [DATE], as IND Ltd had refused the Defendant’s CPR 31.14 request / the Claimant had failed to respond to the Defendant’s CPR 31.14 request, the Defendant requested, via the Claimants solicitors Hegarty LLP, an extension of time under CPR 15.5 (delivered [DATE]), as can be evidenced by a signed delivery slip obtained from the Royal Mail Website. Yet to date the Claimant has failed to respond. 5: The Defendant therefore submitted to the court an N244 application, dated [DATE] (delivered [DATE]), requesting an order from the court that the Claimant provides documents requested by the Defendant under CPR 31.14 and information requested by the Defendant under CPR Part 18. 6: The Claimant has failed to provide the very documents they require to support their claim and which at the same time frustrates and denies the Defendant the opportunity to submit a properly particularised defence. 7: Consequently, the Defendant is unable to admit or deny the Particulars of Claim and puts the Claimant to strict proof thereof. 8: The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to any of the relief claimed or at all. 9: The Defendant is embarrassed and respectfully requests a stay in proceedings until such time as the Claimant complies with the requests outlined in paragraphs 2, 3 and 4 above or until the Court orders its compliance as outlined in paragraph 5 above. The Defendant will then be in a position to file a fully particularised Defence / Counterclaim within 14 days of the Claimants compliance and the Defendant seeks the Court’s permission to amend his statement of case accordingly. Thanks in advance.

Well I spoke to the court today. They have received my N244 application and posted a letter out to me yesterday. They tell me there is a bar on judgement (preventing RW getting judgement by default), apparently I may not get a decision on my application for 3-6 weeks. When asked, they said that once a decision was made re my N244 then, if the judge refused my application, RW would be able to enter judgement against me - therefore I should still enter a defence to prevent that happening (once a decision is made on the N244 then RW and I will be notified). I'll draft up a defence over the weekend and submit it as I don't want to risk a refusal of my N244 and RW getting judgement by default before I receive the notification.

Thanks, I'll check with the court and get a holding / embarrassed defence prepared in case. Definitely not going to let them get judgement by default!!

Hi citizenB, Thanks for merging the threads. I did put in the N244 a request to extending time for service of the Defence and in my draft order put 2 weeks for Hegarty to comply with the order and a further 2 weeks for my defence (from the sticky Getting Them To Reveal Their Vitals. Using CPR 31.14 to Your Advantage, post 51). Do I still need to enter a defence, or can I just call the court on Friday to see if they have allowed the N244 disclosure request and defence extension?

Hi Ford, Yes, this is the same court action. Originally posted this thread re DN in the Debt Collection Industry forum. Anyway - still no reply to my CPR Part 18 and CPR 15.5 extension requests so N244 posted today to court requesting an order to provide disclosure or stike out the claim. Also requested costs up to this point. I wait now to see if they respond or the case gets struck out. citizenB / site team- please feel free to combine my 2 threads if you think it necessary.

Hi citizenB, Yes, dependant on their CPR18 reply and an N244 applocation to force disclosure of CPR31.14 requested and refused, I have a NOA issue and cancellation rights missing on the agreement. They have until tomorrow to respond to my CPR18 request - then I'll issue the N244.

Thanks citizenB, Also just realised that the final loan payment should have been made on the 8th - 2 days after the date on the DN - making the value incorrect by one monthly payment on the DN (but would have been correct on the date to remedy by - even if that date had been correct). But does the invalid DN (not even mentioned in the POC) strengthen my defence? Can the OC just sell the debt to the DCA anyway without a DN (when sold the full outstanding balance was due) therefore negating the need for a compliant DN? If the DCA are told by the court to sell the debt back to the OC so that the OC can issue a compliant DN it wouldn't really benefit me if they then (OC - or if assigned again - the DCA) restart court proceedings, or would it?? There are other issues I may be able to successfully defend on that hopefully would get the claim dismissed (don't want to give to much away yet before my defence is entered as they may well be monitoring this forum) - stopping them getting another 'bite at the cherry' with a second claim. Thanks in advance for any thoughts and responses.

Hi, looking for some clarification on what I believe is a defective default notice. Background is that after personal problems and burying my head in the sand (2007) I received a default notice served under sec 87(1) of CCA1974 from the OC regarding a personal loan (4 months after last payment). The DN was dated Wed 6th, posted 1st class on the Thur 7th (I still have the envelope) with a date to rectify of the 20th - I believe faulty as 14 clear days after service (even assuming service on Friday 8th) would be the 22nd - 2 days short on the DN. Action required was payment in full (having missed payments on and off for about a year - the loan would have been fully paid before the default date if all payments were made on time). Now there was only one 'missed / late payment' charge of £20 prior to DN but would that make the default notice invalid also (penalty charge hence incorrect value on DN)? Since then the account has been sold to a DCA who have put a claim in via MCOL (agreement therefore terminated). As the full amount outstanding and demanded in the default notice is the 'full amount' I would not have any benefit from 'payment of arrears' on an unlawfully rescinded agreement. Are defective default notices still an avenue to pursue as a defence (Harrison v Link) or only de-minimis (Brandon v American Express)?

Thanks you both for your comments. I have been reading up on the CPR procedures and am thinking it might be best to write to Hegarty requesting an extension of 28 days under CPR15.5 (should I word it as 'additional 28 days - making the deadline 56 days from service of the claim form') and giving them 7 days to respond. Also thinking maybe I should send Hegarty a separate CPR part 18 request asking for clarification of dates etc on the docs refused under CPR31.14 and .15 mentioned in the POC (again with a 7 day deadline) - mindful that time is ticking by for me to enter my defence (if they ignore / refuse the extension request). Would CPR18 2.4 (1) (d) refer to and have attached to it a copy of any document not already in the possession of the first party which forms part of the response. mean they have to send copies of the docs also? If I get no extension or CPR18 response then I guess the next stage is an N244 application requesting compliance (does this put a hold on the case or do I still need to enter a defence before the 28 days, also can this be an unless order if I ask on the form?). I'm mindful of pt's sticky http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?283443-Embarrassed-Defences-and-the-problems-with-them. regarding embarrassed defences but if I have done all I can and still need to defend embarrassed then I will have to. Thanks for your input.

Well, today I have received a response from IND to my CPR request (not referencing the claim number, but referencing a (blanked out) reference under the Hegarty LLP address on the claim form). Reading on the forum and googling the contact number on the claim for Hegarty I know that the number is IND and they appear to be pulling the strings with these claims(something to drop in when it gets to court). IND basically say that after taking counsel's advice they will not be providing any documents and the POC provides me with sufficient information to respond to the claim. The reason they give for not complying with the CPR 31.14 are that that it does not apply to small claims, thus would be illogical and contrary to the overriding objectives of CPR Part 31 to apply between issue and allocation to the small claims track. Notwithstanding the rights under CPR 31.14 (had they applied to this case), those rights only arise when specific reference to a document has been made. Where there is no more than an inference, as opposed to a specific reference to the existence of a document they are not bound by CPR31.14 to provide such documents. Now my request under CPR 31.14 included the following (taken from the sticky by surfaceagentx20 - thanks for that:-)), [Although the claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and your client should not seek to avoid compliance with its CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise] Your client should ensure compliance with its CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case. Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party. In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request. If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence. If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order. Obviously I believe they do refer specifically to docs in the POC (and not just infer), but how do I get them to comply with my request? Do I apply for a strike out (on what grounds and how much does it cost?) or stay (again grounds and cost implications?). I believe a stay means they cannot re-issue a new claim (but would need to apply to the court to continue the existing claim) - is this the same with a strike out?, Can I request the information under any other CPR rules that would apply to small claims or just submit an embarrassed defence (seeking permission to amend when docs are provided) and ask the Judge to order disclosure? I have until the 2nd week in March to enter my defence. Have also received my SAR back from Secure Trust - I have requested (via recorded post) clarification from them regarding abbreviations used in their screen-shots etc and copies of letters mentioned in the comms log (most notably the Default Notice letter and exact details of the company they sold the debt to). Sorry for the long post - many questions going through my mind. Any advice you all can give would be much appreciated.