my 2004 managed loan from hsbc had some irregularities in the credit agreement, so it's worth a try nonetheless.

current accounts with overdrafts do not need credit agreements. perhaps this has something to do with it.

at the end of the day when we're dealing with a contract between two parties, only the legalities matter, and morality is irrelevant.

hi, i'm curious to know how the original poster got on with DG/MCS/HSBC, because I also deal with that particular axis of evil.

would it be possible to assign your debt to somebody from a country with no reciprocal agreement? How about assigning it to somebody from Somalia, or outer Mongolia? lol It would be nice to get he whole nation's debt canceled in this way, but realistically this cannot work once too many people start doing it. Just looking at the bank charge claim bonanza, for years only a handful of people knew about it, but once it became popularised in the mainstream press, the court system got swamped with claims and the powers that be decided a test case would be necessary, with all individual claims being deferred for a year or two...conveniently for the banks. Now we have companies being set up specifically to reclaim bank charges, and solicitors soliciting for bank charge claims. However, that's not to say this idea should not be popularised if it turns out to be useful. A substantial number of people might be helped by this method, before it gets outlawed and 'shut down' by the authorities. Power to the people!

Metropolitan's call centre is an offshored operation somewhere in south asia, based on the accent of all the operatives I have spoken too. However, when asked, they say they are in 'Birming ham'. Trying to talk to them is utterly pointless, because their telephone operatives know absolutely nothing apart from what their scripts tell them. Most don't even know what a cca request is.

How on earth do the dcas manage to link people here with real world people they are trying to collect from?

This new and rather sinister activity from DCAs doesn't surprise me one bit. Thanks for warning us edit: now that you mention it, I have noticed some posts from new users which seem to have similar structure, tone and titles...including attempts to get other users to share details of their specific cases.

I suppose it depends on whether the company to which your friend made the loan repayments has the rights to collect the debt. Someone better qualified should be along to give better answers though

I am being chased by CSL debt collectors, for arrears on my student loan, but student loans have included more than a hundred pounds of old penalty charges. Student loans told me (on the phone) that now they have given it to the debt collector, they are unable to remove the charges, and so I should speak to CSL. CSL say they can't do anything about the charges, and that I should speak to student loans. So, I am being sent round in circle by these jokers. What should I do? I have no objection to paying the ARREARS, but I will not pay the penalty charges.

I'm subscribing to this thread, because I am interested to know whether the the agreement can be considered sufficiently legible to go to court.

Hi debtmouse, some more knowledgeable people than me will be along shortly to help you out with this. I too have a few questions with a similar theme. What action can be taken against me if I am living outside of the UK. E.g., can a DCA get a CCJ against me if my address is in a foreign country? Or do they need a UK address to do that? Can they just use the last UK address I had before I moved abroad, despite knowing my current overseas address?

Was your account an overdraft, or a loan or credit card? This makes a difference to how banks and DCAs deal with a CCA request. Basically, for overdraft accounts the bank/DCA need not supply a credit agreement after a CCA 1974 request. The DCA I have been dealing with was careful to explain why they didn't need to send me a copy of a credit agreement for my overdraft, but I guess other DCAs may prefer to explain nothing. A more experienced member of these boards will probably be along shortly to clarify this and suggestwhat steps you could take.

I seem to remember a while ago, parliament closed some 'loop holes' that allowed people to get out of paying back student loans, even if you go bankrupt? Or does this only apply to new style loans?

I checked the FOS website and they say that in 2008-2009, the first 3 (or 4?) complaints each company has will be handled for free, thereafter each complaint will be 450 quid. I wonder how many complaints MC will have had so far this year...

fair enough

Hi, are there any good ways to be cheeky to DCAs in writing? Or cause them the maximum hassle possible?

This is just one further step in the gradual erosion of liberty in this country.

Thanks for helping with the questions

Hi Summer, I have also been dealing with MCS (on behalf of HSBC). MCS told me (after a lot of lies) that they are a wholly owned subsidiary of HSBC, who act as HSBC's internal collections arm. Because of this, I think they act a little more responsibly than some of the cowboy operations that others have been talking about on these forums, which I suppose is a small plus. Even so, I'd still advise against talking on the phone with them, as their call centre staff (in India I believe, although when asked their agents claim to be in Birmingham, which they pronounce incorrectly!) generally can't count integrity as among their qualities. They will lie and try to decieve you like other DCAs. I'm not sure what your next step should be, apart from not panicking, but someone who does know will come along soon to give you the proper advice.

Hi, I just have a few questions. 1. The credit agreement (or its copy) must be clearly legible to be enforceable. If decimal points are missing, or some characters can't be distinguished (Ie. H and B look the same), does that count as not clearly legible? Also, does anyome have an opinion on whether a typo in the debtor's name or address makes the document 'not clearly legible'? 2. If the CCA request returns an illegible credit agreement, has an offence been committed? Or does the DCA/bank only need to send out a document that they claim satisfies the 1974 CCA? 3. Is is reasonable to expect the DCA/bank to confirm whether they still have the original paper documents? 4. Is there any rule regarding the order in which application forms are completed and the credit agreement is signed? For example, my agreement was drawn up and signed by the bank 4 days before I completed the application form, and the agreement and application forms were both completed by me on the same day (i.e. 4 days after the bank signed the agreement). Edit: 5. Am I right in thinking that Breaching the OFT debt collection guidelines is not a statutory offence, but breaching the 1974 CCA is? Many thanks, Mexico86

Thanks Pinky and NP for having a look at the agreement. I should clarify that the full terms and conditions and a full set of statements were included in the package sent to me by the DCA. The terms and conditions page is linked to the credit agreement page by HSBC's use of 'CONTINUED' at the bottom of the credit agreement page. This is clearly a poor copy. In fact, in places it is not possible to tell the difference between: '1' 'l' and 'i' 'c' and 'o' 'H' and 'B' (meanign some guesswork is involved in interpreting the sentence: For HSBC Bank plc) Question: It looks illegible to me, but would a judge be likely to agree that this document is not clearly legible in a legal sense? Question: If a DCA responds to CCA request with an illegible document, is the DCA still in default (or committing an offence after the 14+30 days)? Question: is it okay that the bank pre-signed the agreement on 10/2/04, while I signed it on 14/2/04? Thanks

It probably won't be too long before banks realise they are losing too much money because of their unenforceable credit agreements, and they will just ensure they keep a high quality copy of each agreement, and the banks will also start putting the necessary terms in the right place too, of course. In fact, most banks probably already do this now, so if you want to take out new debt, you could have problems avoiding it this time!

Although I have advocated having no sympathy for lenders or DCAs, for the record I will say that my debts were accumulated from basic living costs when I faced the choice of (a) quitting my uni course 3 months before the end to get a minimum wage job, or (b) finishing my course while living on credit. I chose not to throw away 4 years of prior uni study.