no worries, I'll have a look over your thread later on this evening kind regards, shane

HAK, I believe Chris was referring to the s59(1) / unexecuted argument which has, to the best of my knowledge not been tested in court yet. 127(3) is irrefutably more clear regards, shane

Hi spiritgirl, Just saw ur post on the CCA thread, I would send the attached disclosure letter to the claimant, send recorded delivery as well. kind regards, shane _______________________________________________ All advice is offered freely & without prejudice If my post has been useful to you please click the scales CPR Info Request.txt

Hi, please don't worry about that to much, I was mainly referring to a situation where a debtor was attempting to claim back all monies ever paid as a result of a non compliant agreement. In your situation the lack of an agreement is a complete defence to any enforcement order kind regards, shane

Hiya and welcome to CAG, Can you let us know a little more about the debts you have, is it a personal or commerical? what's the value? Is it a loan, credit card etc kind regards, shane _______________________________________________ All advice is offered freely & without prejudice If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

who did you send the CCA requests to? It won't affect it regardless, I would think the agreement would be in Beneficial finances name as they are the trading company

Hiya, Are any of the debts related to overdrafts? If so have you sent a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to the creditor, overdrafts are slightly different, they are regulated by the CCA but the creditor is not required to hold an agreement subject to an OFT Determination order. Personally I feel they are required to of notified you of the general terms of the overdraft prior to initiating it though. kind regards. shane _______________________________________________ All advice is offered freely & without prejudice If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

Hi, looks like you had a clued up judge Interesting case, just subscribbing kind regards, shane

beer goggles!

9 months!!

Hi, Just to clarify Beneficial Finance is a trading name of HFC Bank which in turn is a part of the HSBC Group. _______________________________________________ All advice is offered freely & without prejudice If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

Hi HAK, At the end of the day it all comes down to the judges interpretation and unfortunately his personal views could affect that. Personally this is one of the reasons why I feel restitution of all monies ever paid can never succeed, (not to mention the Wilson ruling finding it would be unjust enrichement for the debtor) regards, shane

Charging Order:mad: !!

Hiya, I assume here you mean an enforcement order and as in signed by the debtor as 127(3) would apply otherwise? kind regards, shane

A charging order can only be applied with the permission of the court have they instigated a claim against you? regards, shane

Hi, Keep in mind that even if they do provide an agreement it must be deemed enforcable, there are several reasons why it may not be so which is why it's always worth finding out. When/If you get a response post up copies of the alleged agreement and we can advise if it is compliant, if it isn;t it puts you in a strong position to offer perhaps a reduced full & final settlement. regards, shane _________________________ _______________ All advice is offered freely & without prejudice If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

Yeah at the end of the day it all comes down to the interpretation of the judge and it would be foolhardy to rely on this one argument alone. It is entirely possible the judge will see it this way but looking at statue I can see mention of this, If we look back at s189 definition of executed it cleary states it must be signed by or on behalf of both parties. If it isn't it remains unexecuted and prospective. kind regards, shane

Hi Chris, I agree with regard to identifying the parties, a company logo even a worded sentence can do so but in the situation where an agreement becomes executed on the creditors signature IMO there has to be some form of authority from them, be it a rubber stamp or an actual signature. Otherwise the agreement remains unexecuted, hence prospective and void by s59(1). kind regards, shane ________________________________________ All advice is offered freely & without prejudice If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

Hi, That would be Mercers / Barclaycard I think kind regards, shane ________________________________________ All advice is offered freely & without prejudice If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

Hi Peter, I agree, but it is interesting to look at the implications of the lack of creditors signature (There would have to be no signature, no rubber stamp etc at all, nothing to indicate the creditor had accepted the agreement hence it was never made etc) when considering section 59(1) of the Act. 59(1) - An agreement is void if, and to the extent that, it purports to bind a person to enter as debtor or hirer into a prospective regulated agreement S 189 defines the following: “executed agreement ” means a document, signed by or on behalf of the parties, embodying the terms of a regulated agreement, or such of them as have been reduced to writing; “unexecuted agreement ” means a document embodying the terms of a prospective regulated agreement, or such of them as it is intended to reduce to writing I never really noticed the definition of unexecuted before but it definitely strenghthens the s59(1) argument I think. kind regards, shane

Hiya, I've found the easiest method of getting defaults removed is to include the removal as part of your penalty charges claim. do you think their might have been some late payment / overlimit fees? If so send a SAR kind regards, shane ______________________________________________ All advice is offered freely & without prejudice If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

Hi, This is a typical letter from Cap1, they always offer to reduce the difference from previous amount and £12 first, what you need to do is accept it as a partial settlement on the understanding you will pursue them for the remainder there is a template letter somewhere in the CAG library i think. kind regards, shane ______________________________________________ All advice is offered freely & without prejudice If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

celebration

supernova

Hi, It contravenes the OFT guidelines on debt collection, I've attached a copy for you _______________________________________________ All advice is offered freely & without prejudice If my post has been useful to you please click the scales OFT GUIDANCE ON DEBT COLLECTION DOCUMENT 664.pdf