Hi, Payment gateway? Payment was attempted at the machine on site at the park not online?

No, there was no payment taken from the card. Not sure about the signage. Would have to take a drive and take some shots.

PCN #1 1 Date of the infringement 1/6/2017 2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 21/6/2017 3 Date received 24/6/2017 4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] No 5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Not that I am aware of. It was an ANPR system? 6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up you appeal] Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Hi, In reference to your letter dated 21st June 2017, I would like to contest this parking charge. Myself and my wife use the Betteshanger Park and always pay as you will see if you look back at your records. We remember this day as we put our debit card in the machine and we believed that the payment had gone through as there was a long delay. We even spoke to another couple who were waiting at the machine who said they had also had problems with it in the past. We believed that the payment had been taken and left. We certainly didn't want to make multiple attempts and be charged. I am more than happy to pay the usual fee, but feel that this charge is unjustified. Like I say, if you go back on your records you will see that we do usually pay. My wife and I usually go walking at Betteshanger early in the morning and are usually there only for around 30 minutes or so. So to risk a fine for the sake of saving £1 or so would be stupid. Please consider this request and I look forward to hearing from you soon. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for your email. Upon entering the site you entered into a contract to pay for the parking that was due at the time or up to 48 hours following your departure (online) or pay a parking charge notice (reduced if paid within 14 days). Having checked all the payments made during you visit I am unable to see a payment for your registration or anything I might assume is an incorrect entry of your registration, therefore the parking charge has been issued correctly. You can pay your parking charge notice online at www.parkwithease.co.uk or by sending a cheque or postal order to Park with Ease Ltd, Unit 14, Theatre Court, London Road, Northwich, Cheshire, CW9 5HB. We also accept payments over the telephone on the contact number below. The Independent Appeals Service (www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). In order to appeal the IAS will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. Kind Regards Gemma Customer Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi, Under the 14 day rule for the Notice to Keeper, you should have sent the demand within 14 days of the event, which you clearly have not done. I note the protection of freedoms act 2012 schedule 4 section 9 states that for keeper liability to apply the keeper must receive a notice to keeper within 14 days. REF PWE - Period of Parking: 5th June 2017 - Your letter is dated 21st June 2017 - Received 26th of June 2017 REF PWE - Period of Parking: 1st June 2017 - Your letter is dated 21st June 2017 - Received 24th of June 2017. Note that both were received well outside of the 14 day period and means that you are no longer able to pursue the registered keeper of the vehicle (Mrs XXXXX) for this fine/penalty. You must instead pursue the driver of the vehicle at the time. Please let me know how you would like to proceed. If you would like to take this further I can put this in writing to you. Note that I will also 1. Make a formal complaint to the IPC 2. Make a formal complaint to the DVLA as I believe that you obtained our information outside of the 14 day period. 3. Open an appeal with the IAS. I await your response. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ We have not claimed to and are not seeking to use POFA 2012 to pursue the matter, therefore we have no requirement to issue any letters within 14 days. Kind Regards, Gemma Customer Services 7 Who is the parking company? Parking With Ease 8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Betteshanger Country Park, Deal, Kent For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS PCN #2 1 Date of the infringement 5/6/2017 2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 21/6/2017 3 Date received 26/6/2017 4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] No 5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Not that I am aware of. It was an ANPR system? 6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up you appeal] Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up #### As PCN #1 #### Hi, In reference to your letter dated 21st June 2017, I would like to contest this parking charge. Myself and my wife use the Betteshanger Park and always pay as you will see if you look back at your records. We remember this day as we put our debit card in the machine and we believed that the payment had gone through as there was a long delay. We even spoke to another couple who were waiting at the machine who said they had also had problems with it in the past. We believed that the payment had been taken and left. We certainly didn't want to make multiple attempts and be charged. I am more than happy to pay the usual fee, but feel that this charge is unjustified. Like I say, if you go back on your records you will see that we do usually pay. My wife and I usually go walking at Betteshanger early in the morning and are usually there only for around 30 minutes or so. So to risk a fine for the sake of saving £1 or so would be stupid. Please consider this request and I look forward to hearing from you soon. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for your email. Upon entering the site you entered into a contract to pay for the parking that was due at the time or up to 48 hours following your departure (online) or pay a parking charge notice (reduced if paid within 14 days). Having checked all the payments made during you visit I am unable to see a payment for your registration or anything I might assume is an incorrect entry of your registration, therefore the parking charge has been issued correctly. You can pay your parking charge notice online at www.parkwithease.co.uk or by sending a cheque or postal order to Park with Ease Ltd, Unit 14, Theatre Court, London Road, Northwich, Cheshire, CW9 5HB. We also accept payments over the telephone on the contact number below. The Independent Appeals Service (www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). In order to appeal the IAS will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. Kind Regards Gemma Customer Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi, Under the 14 day rule for the Notice to Keeper, you should have sent the demand within 14 days of the event, which you clearly have not done. I note the protection of freedoms act 2012 schedule 4 section 9 states that for keeper liability to apply the keeper must receive a notice to keeper within 14 days. REF PWE - Period of Parking: 5th June 2017 - Your letter is dated 21st June 2017 - Received 26th of June 2017 REF PWE - Period of Parking: 1st June 2017 - Your letter is dated 21st June 2017 - Received 24th of June 2017. Note that both were received well outside of the 14 day period and means that you are no longer able to pursue the registered keeper of the vehicle (Mrs XXXXX) for this fine/penalty. You must instead pursue the driver of the vehicle at the time. Please let me know how you would like to proceed. If you would like to take this further I can put this in writing to you. Note that I will also 1. Make a formal complaint to the IPC 2. Make a formal complaint to the DVLA as I believe that you obtained our information outside of the 14 day period. 3. Open an appeal with the IAS. I await your response. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ We have not claimed to and are not seeking to use POFA 2012 to pursue the matter, therefore we have no requirement to issue any letters within 14 days. Kind Regards, Gemma Customer Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7 Who is the parking company? Parking With Ease 8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Betteshanger Country Park, Deal, Kent For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS

Hi, I wonder if someone can advise. My wife received two parkinig charge letters from Parking With Ease both due to their machines constantly failing to recognise the registration number when attempting to make payment. On one occasion we worked out we could enter the reg number manually but it then failed to recognise the debit card and just sat there forever. We then decided to leave it as we were unsure if payment had been taken. both of these letters were sent and received way outside of the 14 days Notice to Keeper period as stated here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted I informed them of this on my wife's behalf via their appeals email address and also mentioned the POFA and that the NTK was outside of this period and that they were therefore unable to pursue the registered owner of the vehicle (my wife) for the penalty charge. I also stated that I would report them to the IPC, DVLA if they pursued this further and they came back and said:- "We have not claimed to and are not seeking to use POFA 2012 to pursue the matter, therefore we have no requirement to issue any letters within 14 days." Can someone advise on the next course of action. Do we send them everything in writing? They said that we are free to contact the IAS and lodge an appeal with them within 21 days. Just a bit confused on their response and the next step for us to take. Thanks for any advice. Rob

Hi Slick, Ok, so I have now heard back from Harlands after I sent them a stinking letter. Without quoting the whole letter, they say that "I completed an legally binding online agreement". They also say and I quote "The last page of the process requires you to declare that you acknowledge that the agreement will become binding upon both parties once you have checked the I agree box below the Next Step button. For your agreement to have proceeded, you will have completed this procedure." Well, as I stated in my initial post, I did not even see the computer screen. The manager sat opposite us and completed the information as he asked us. At no stage did we see the terms and conditions or click any agreement buttons or boxes. I am happy to tell them to go xx themselves as they are really trying it on. I think the letter just looks like some template to be honest. Question is, is any of this enforceable? We are in the right, but do they have a leg to stand on? If they try and pass the debt out to a DCA, can we just request to see a signed copy of the agreement? It does seem like this (and no doubt other companies) are now trying to hide behind this online contracts rubbish. I also found this post on their own website that states that any unsigned agreements are unenforceable and for the staff to make sure that they are signed. It is from 2009 though so not sure if it is at all relevant today. http://www.harlandsgroup.co.uk/newsletter/hg-february-2009/index.html Your advice is much appreciated.

Hi Slick, Ok, will do. Do you need to physically sign now for a direct debit? Thanks

Sorry, just wanted to add that when we called them to freeze the memberships, they could not find our information anywhere. They tried using d.o.b, postcodes the lot and had to re-enter the information. I wonder if this is the reason we never received any contracts or other memberships information. Don't know if this has an bearing on things?

Hi Slick, Thanks for your reply. We didn't sign any agreement. We have never seen one. When we signed up we sat opposite the gym guy who had a laptop (couldnt see the screen) and he just asked us our details etc and set it up. We didn't tick any boxes or sign anything. Like I say, we have never seen any form of contract.

Hi All, My wife and myself joined our local Lifestyle Fitness gym in October 2013. Due to unforeseen circumstances, we were unable to get to the gym for a few month's so requested that they freeze our membership until March 2014. This we put to the person at the gym. He said he would do this but failed to do so on time. He was apologetic but advised us to speak to Harlands about this. We didn't know who Harlands were. We thought they must be the gym owners, but now we know after reading posts on here!! We should have renewed our DD (as we cancelled it) in March but forgot. We have today received a letter saying that the direct debit payment had been missed and that a 25.00 admin fee would be applied, which I understand is illegal/unenforceable. When I asked them about my wife's membership which I had also requested freezing, they said that I had to speak to another department. (strange I thought). I then learn't that they had not cancelled her account and have sent it to their debt department. I am now mighty p'd off with this company as I want to be speaking to Lifestyle Fitness now some monkey debt collection/management company. Things to note. 1. We never signed a DD agreement. The gym guy sat opposite us and just asked us questions and completed it. No tick in a box or signature was asked for. 2. We have NEVER received any contract, membership details, cards or direct debit information and have never signed anything. I spoke to them today and foolishly agreed to pay half the admin fee (not knowing that they can't do this). Now I have read about them on here and after experiencing they way they have treated us today, I no longer want to do any business with this gym or their management monkeys. I read on here about the OFT and gyms here http://www.oft.gov.uk/news-and-updates/press/2013/62-13 I am pretty sure that we have a good case and should be able to just write a nice polite letter and tell them to bog off and cancel our membership.Can anyone advise on our rights? Another I noticed is that they kept referring to the "Data Protections Act" in emails and also when I spoke to them on the phone. They have never done this before so I guess they are trying to polish up their act... Can anyone advise on our rights? Many thanks for any advice you can offer. Rob

Ok, many thanks ims21!

Yes, it's a new entry for Lowell and a default for Jan 2013. The amount is slightly different to the original debt which shows on my file for the original creditor. So to clarify, there is the existing entry which shows the defaults etc for each month and a new one recently added for Lowell with the big "D" for default. Can that be right?? It is for the same debt though as the account numbers are the same. Are they just trying it on and trying to extend the SB date?

Hi Ims21, Sorry, one more question. I have a new entry on my credit file for Lowell. As I have not acknowledged them in any way at this time, is that not illegal? Should they not inform you before they place an entry on your file? Plus it says I am in default to them from this month!! Also, why is there a separate one for them and also for the original creditor?

Ah ok, understand. Many thanks for your help Ims21.

Thanks Ims21. Much appreciated! Can you just elaborate on "It may well be that it is littered with charges which could be reclaimed and consequently alter the amount outstanding."?

Can you tell me that If I send a CCA request whether or not this is seen as acknowledging the debt? The debt will become SB in around 4 months time So I obviously want to avoid any form of acknowledgement. Also, what happens if Lowells send a Statutory Demand. Would I need to send the CCA immediately and then get the Statutory Demand set aside? Would this mean that the debt was in dispute? From what I understand, Lowelives are not very good at producing CCA's? If they do produce the CCA and it is bona fide, what would be the next best course of action for me? Thanks for any help you can provide.