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    • Hi, the vehicle went to Audi Chingford on Thursday 13th May. I did state beforehand that I only wanted a diagnostic. The technician out of courtesy opened the drain letting huge deposits of water escape the seals. Video evidence was provided via AUDI cam. The link for the audi cam has been forwarded to BMW and Motonovo. I spoke to branch manager explained the situation and he stated he would sent me an email outlining the issue. Audi state this is not really an issue and more of a design flaw. However, the seals still have water ingress. I purchased the vehicle with £0 deposit on a 60 months HP plan for £520.00. The vehicle total was £21000. I did not go for any extended warranty. I live almost 70 miles away from the aftersales centre in Peterborough. I have previously uploaded the document I forwarded to BMW however it was in word format. I have had to buy a new tyre almost three days after purchasing vehicle. BMW still have not compensated me for the v62 cost as they said they would. 
    • I would suggest that you stop trying to rely on legal theory – as you understand it. Firstly, because we are dealing with practical/pragmatic situations and at a low value level where these arguments tend not to work. Secondly, because you clearly have misunderstood the assessment of quantum where there are breaches of obligations. The formula that you have cited above is the method of loss calculation in torts. In contract it is entirely different. The law of obligations generally attempts to remedy the breach. This means that in tort, damages seek to put you into the position you would have been in had the breach not occurred. In other words it returns you to your starting position – point zero. Contract damages attend put you into the position that you would have been had the breach not occurred but this is not your starting position, contract damages assume that the agreement in dispute had actually been carried out. This puts you into your final position. You sold an item for £XXX. Your expectation was that you your item would be correctly delivered and that you would be the beneficiary of £XXX. Your expectation loss is the amount that you sold the item for and that is all you are entitled to recover. If you want, you can try to sue for the larger sum – and we will help you. But if they ask for evidence of the value of the item as it was sold then I can almost guarantee that either you will be obliged to settle for the lesser sum – or else a judge will give you judgement but for the lesser sum. This will put you to the position that you would have been had there been no breach of contract. I understand from you now that when you dispatch the item you declared the retail cost to you and not your expected benefit of £XXX. To claim for the retail value in the circumstances would offend the rules relating to betterment. If you want to do it then we will help you – but don't be surprised if you take a tumble.  
    • I was caught speeding 3 times in the same week, on the same road. All times were 8-12mph higher than the limit. I was offered the course for the first offense and I now need to accept the other 2 offenses. I just want to be ready for what might come. Will I get the £100 fine and 3 points for each of them or do I face something more severe?  These are my only offenses in 8 years of driving.
    • I'll get my letter drafted this evening. Its an item I sold, which I'm also concerned about, as whilst I don't have my original purchase receipt (the best I have is my credit card statement showing a purchase from Car Audio Centre), I do unfortunately have the eBay listing where I sold it for much less. But as I said before this is now a question of compensation: true compensation would seek to put me back into the position I was in before the loss ie: that title would remain with me until my buyer has accepted this, and so compensation should be that which would be needed to replace the lost item. But in the world of instant electronic payment, it could be argued that as I had already been paid, the title to the goods had already transferred, and I was required to refund the buyer after the loss. And so, despite my declared value being the retail price - that which is needed to return me to my pre-sales position, the compensatory value should be the value I sold it for, which being a second-hand item from a private seller is lower. I still believe that I should be claiming for the item's full value, rather than how much I sold it for, as this is the same for insurance: we don't insure the value we paid, but rather the value of the item to put us back into the position we would be in if we ever needed to claim. Its for the loss adjuster to argue the toss
    • amusing that 'bad economic judgement on behalf of prior party ISN'T a major reason to wingers to move to deform yet immigration is, where record levels of such has been driven by the right wings terrible brexit and the later incompetent dog whistle 'proposals largely driven to whistle to the right wingnuts Just seems to confirm the are clueless numpties 'wetting their own shoes   Has farage bought a property in Clacton yet?   yet concern for the NHS is listed as a major issue even by those saying they are moving to deform  
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
        • Thanks
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Financial statement


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I am currently paying off a loan to DLC with reduced payments. Every 6 monthes they phone me up and try to get more money off me. I refused to give then any details when they last phoned last week and have now received a financial statment request from them to list income and outgoings so that they can review my payments. Am I legally obliged to give them this information.? I have always made the payments on time and am not in arrears.

Many thanks

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I have done that and I received a copy of the signed agreement and the statements of account. I am also going down the same road with Barclays via CDCS who have passed the debt onto CSL. I have received an unsigned agreement from CSL and have written back to say this is unacceptable.I have stopped payments on that account......What fun!!!!!!

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  • 2 months later...

Hi there

I have just received a Notice of debt recovery from DLC in response to my letter to them saying that their Egg card agreement was unenforceable due to the words 'approved limit' in the terms and conditions. I am not in arrears with the monthly payments and have continued to make the required payments. Can they send in the debt collecters simply because I refused to up my monthy payments and did not send a financial statement? Any suggestions as to what to say in my reply. I have been asked to phone them but guess what!!! I am not going to.

Thanks for any help

Edited by SusieQ33
spelling mistake
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Hi there

I have just received a Notice of debt recovery from DLC in response to my letter to them saying that their Egg card agreement was unenforceable due to the words 'approved limit' in the terms and conditions. I am not in arrears with the monthly payments and have continued to make the required payments. Can they send in the debt collecters simply because I refused to up my monthy payments and did not send a financial statement? Any suggestions as to what to say in my reply. I have been asked to phone them but guess what!!! I am not going to.

Thanks for any help

Your letter

 

(1) Your monthly 5% payment is up to date

(2) You refused to pay increase monthly instalment (to what %)?

(3) You refused to send an income and expenditure statement

(4) You alleged your debt to be legally unenforceable

 

(2) Best to check the fine print of your agreement re an option for Egg to increase monthly minimum payment the way they are authorised to increase monthly debit interest rate. If you never agree to such an option, then Egg can whistle for it.

 

(3) If you have not defaulted and have not given notice of intention to default on payments, your I&E is not their business. Might as well ask their MD to send you his I&E.

 

(4) This is the grey area. When you volunteered your opinion that you regarded your debt as unenforceable, were you saying you would continue paying, or not continue paying? Did you say nothing at all on that score?

 

It would require a Test Case to clarify whether an (implicit?) intention to default in future, declare in black and white is sufficient to justify Egg initiating debt collection activities. Your precise wording will be relevant if this is going to court and the judge reaches for a decision in a grey area.

 

A creditor takes a debtor to court, and the judge will rule if the agreement as legally enforceable or otherwise. Until then all is a matter of opinion. The last three Test Case verdicts surprised many.

 

 

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Hi there

Thanks for that. Originally they asked for an I and E form from me which I did and agreed payment, then every 6 months they would phone me up to get an increase in payment. The last time they did this I refused to speak to them and they put the request in writing which is when I wrote back and said as my circumstances had not changed I was going to continue with my current payments. I am paying £17.00 p month on the debt of £1300. I have not defaulted on the payments and they are up to date. I said nothing about continuing or not continuing to pay when I told them I thought that the agreement was unenforceable. I received another computer call from them today asking me to call them dispite having written and asked for all communication to be in writing. Presumably this is in response to my lettter sent the other day saying that as I was not in arrears and continuing to make payments I did not see why they had served a Notice of Debt Recovery on me!!!!!

 

I will wait and see what happens next

 

Susan

Edited by SusieQ33
missed a bit
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Hi there

Thanks for that. Originally they asked for an I and E form from me which I did and agreed payment, then every 6 months they would phone me up to get an increase in payment. The last time they did this I refused to speak to them and they put the request in writing which is when I wrote back and said as my circumstances had not changed I was going to continue with my current payments. I am paying £17.00 p month on the debt of £1300. I have not defaulted on the payments and they are up to date. I said nothing about continuing or not continuing to pay when I told them I thought that the agreement was unenforceable. I received another computer call from them today asking me to call them dispite having written and asked for all communication to be in writing. Presumably this is in response to my lettter sent the other day saying that as I was not in arrears and continuing to make payments I did not see why they had served a Notice of Debt Recovery on me!!!!!

 

I will wait and see what happens next

 

Susan

 

In this war of nerves both sides are hard-up, we don't know how hard-up Egg is but they evidently need every penny they can get, so they will push for as much as possible as often as possible. Repeated requests for I&E are a nuisance, as all means tests are. Suggest you reply to the next request with

 

"Regret I have not yet won the lottery so cannot increase payment. Will inform you soonest as soon as I do. ;) "

 

As far as I know "they had served a Notice of Debt Recovery on me" is not a document recognised by law or by the regulator, and triggers no consequences. They made up the name then dignified it with Capital Letters. You could also serve them with a "You Are Seeking Blood From a Stone Notice".

 

If Egg's agreement to accept negotiated monthly payments is in writing I suggest you stand on that and remind them of same with a copy, together with the undisputable evidence that you honoured your side, now let them honour theirs. If Egg's letter said they accepted it subject to a review every six months, then that would weaken your case to be left alone.

 

I doubt if opening a fresh argument overe enforceability will soften Egg's position. More likely your case will be escalated, transfered from a softline manager to a hardline manager. If a raft of Test Case verdicts due over the next few weeks were to come down strongly in favour of cardholders on unenforceability, then that would be the time to broach that subject.

 

Best of luck! :)

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi all

Latest in the ongoing battle with DLC!!!

I wrote to them offering a final settlement figure of £236 on my outstanding debt of £1300. I also mentioned that as a debt recovery firm they would have bought the debt at a fraction of the balance owing.

They wrote back and said they were working for Egg and had not bought the debt!! and would only accept £980 in settlement or an increased monthly payment of £96.50. I am just about to write to tell them what to do with it!!!

I think my next course of action should be to stop my £17.00 a month payment and let them take me to court where I can challenge the enforceability of the original agreement as it has the words ''approved limit'' in the prescribed terms.

What do others think?

Regards

Susan

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You want F&F settlement at 18%, they want 75%. Settlement well in excess of 50% would normally be a DCA's bargaining position, unless they have reason to believe you are about to go bankrupt or leave for the Irish Republic.

 

As for daring them to go to court, that decisive move would be unlikely until the smoke clears imminently in the Enforceability Test Cases in Manchester. If these verdicts were to come out in favour of creditors, they are likely to rush to court roaring gung-ho.

 

If or in that eventuality the emboldened creditors will be even less likely to settle for a low figure whether for F&F or monthly payment. Why would they when they can be assured of obtaining CCJ, and a court ruling assessed on obligatory I&E details, plus attachment of earnings and charge order on those who own a house? The Test Cases could of course come out the other way. Your call, but good luck.

 

 

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