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    • If I have learnt one thing from this forum, it's not to call and communicate via email. I passed this info on to her and they are pushing for her to call them.    "Unfortunately, you will need to call us. The conversation won’t be so black and white as to therefore type over email. In a nutshell we can confirm that the request to not pay for 3 months we cannot put in place"  I emailed them back on her behalf and said that what ever is discussed over the phone will need to be put in an email so that she can review it properly. No decisions will be made on that phone call.    "Once we speak to you on the phone we will follow up with an email to confirm the options discussed. [Phone number]"   Why are they pushing for a phone call? If its not so black and white, why can they then follow up with an email?  
    • Appreciate input Andy, updated: IN THE ******** County Court Claim No. [***] BETWEEN: LC Asset 2 S.A.R.L CLAIMANT AND [***] DEFENDANT ************ _________________________ ________ WITNESS STATEMENT OF [***] _________________________ ________ I, [***], being the Defendant in this case will state as follows;     I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim.   1. I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much-reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already written off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimant’s witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights. This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information). The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party. 2. The Claim relates to an alleged Credit Card agreement between the Defendant and Bank of Scotland plc. Save insofar of any admittance it is accepted that the Defendant has had contractual agreements with Bank of Scotland plc in the past, the Defendant is unaware as to what alleged debt the Claimant refers. The Defendant has not entered any contract with the Claimant. 3. The Defendant requested a copy of the CCA on the 24/12/2022 along with the standard fee of £1.00 postal order, to which the defendant received a reply from the Claimant dated 06/02/2023. To this date, the Claimant has failed to disclose a valid agreement and proof as per their claim that this is enforceable, that Default Notice and Notice of Assignment were sent to and received by the Defendant, on which their claim relies. The Claimant is put to strict proof to verify and confirm that the exhibit *** is a true copy of the agreement and are the true Terms and Conditions as issued at the time of inception of the online application and execution of the agreement. 4. Point 3 is noted. The Claimant pleads that a default notice has been served upon the defendant as evidenced by Exhibit [***]. The claimant is put to strict proof to verify the service of the above in accordance with s136 and s196 Law of Property Act 1925. 5. Point 6 is noted and disputed. The Defendant cannot recall ever having received the notice of assignment as evidenced in the exhibit marked ***. The claimant is put to strict proof to verify the service of the above in accordance with s136 and s196 Law of Property Act 1925. 6. Point 11 is noted and disputed. See 3. 7. Point 12 is noted, the Defendant doesn’t recall receiving contact where documentation is provided as per the Claimants obligations under CCA. In addition, the Claimant pleads letters were sent on dates given, yet those are not the letters evidenced in their exhibits *** 8. Point 13 is noted and denied. Claimant is put to strict proof to prove allegations. 9. The Claimant did not provide a true copy of the CCA in response to the Defendants request of 21/12/2022. The Claimant further claims that the documents are sufficient to pursue a Judgement and are therefore copies of original documents in their possession. Conclusion 10. Without the Claimant providing a valid true copy of the executed Credit agreement that complies with the CCA, the Claimant has no grounds on which to enforce this alleged debt. 11. The Claimant has been unjustly enriched at the expense of the Defendant by purchasing bulk debt at a greatly reduced cost and subrogating for the original creditor in trying to recuperate the full amount of the original debt 12. The Defendant was not given ample evidence to prove the debt and therefore was not required to enter settlement negotiations. Should the debt be proved in the future, the Defendant is willing to enter such negotiations with the Claimant. On receipt of this claim I could not recall the precise details of the agreement or any debt and sought clarity from the claimant by way of a Section 78 request. The Claimant failed to comply. I can only assume as this was due to the Claimant not having any enforceable documentation and issuing a claim in hope of an undefended default judgment.   Statement of Truth I, ********, the Defendant, believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in it’s truth. Signed: _________________________ _______ Dated: _____________________
    • Morning,  I am hoping someone can help, I am posting on behalf of my friend so I will try and provide as much info as possible.  Due health reasons, she is currently not working and unable to pay her contractual car finance payments. She emailed 247 Money and asked for a 3 month payment holiday, they refused this straight away with no reasons as to why. They have told her that instead she can make a payment of £200. She is currently getting £400+ a month ssp so this is not acceptable. She went back to them and explained she cannot make this payment and they have not offered an alternative plan. Its £200 or she falls into default.  She is now panicking as she does not want her car to be taken away. What options does she have?  Thank you, 
    • Read these 6 things you can do to be empathetic to other people’s views and perspectives.View the full article
    • Peter Levy says he received a call from someone pretending to be from his bank in February.View the full article
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

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      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Statutory demand for payment, Debt for liquidated sum payable immediately


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There is no point in telephoning a court for information about the SD. SDs are served by creditors. They are not issued out of court offices.

The time for compliance with an SD runs from the date of service, not the date endorsed against the signature of the creditor in the SD.

Additionally servive of an SD must comply with Insolvency Rules 1986 r.6.3 which places the creditor 'under an obligation to do all that is reasonable for the purpose of bringing the SD to the debtor's attention and, if practicable in the particular circumstances, to cause personal service of the demand to be delivered.'

 

Hence, unless there is a reason which would make personal service impractical, the creditor should cause personal service. That is hand the SD to you in person. The requirement is not met by slipping the SD in an envelope and hoping it might come to your attention by second class post.

 

If the creditor should decide to proceed with a petition based upon your failure to comply with a SD, the creditor will need to swear an affidavit deposing to the truth of the contents of the petition. One feature of the petition is that the creditor must state the date on which and the method by which the SD was served. The creditor will not be able to honestly state the prcise date on which the SD came to your attention if all he did was send it out second class post.

 

For the moment therefore I would be inclined to take no further steps subject to the answer you give to the following question:

 

Is the SD headed 'Debt for Liquidated Sum Payable Immediately Following a Judgment or Order of the Court'?

 

I see that whilst I've been knocking out this answer you have sent a letter. Postpone sending it if you can until you have answered the question.

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Please don't allow the prospect of punishing the creditor with a costs order to influence how you proceed. Costs are always in the disacretion of the court, but more importantly, unless you are proceeding by a solicitor to have the demand set aside, the amount of costs allowed (if any) on succesfully setting aside the SD will be limited to [1] £9.25 per hour and [2] how well you know your way around the Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975 and CPR Parts 43-48. Even if you are, these are not going to be major considerations for an outfit intent on knobbling you for a four figure sum. The costs will be trivial in comparison. They will only be considerations if you do retain a solicitor when the hourly rate will be 20 times your litigant in person rate plus 17.5% VAT. But in that scenario the solicitor keeps the money not you.

 

I am not ruling out the need to seek professional advice at this time. Depending on the way you answer the question I asked, I just might.

 

So what's the answer?

 

X20

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As I thought. The creditor has not prosecuted a claim to judgment.

 

The reason I was asking was because if there had been a judgment then I'd be asking for information to consider whether to apply to the court to set it aside. But since there isn't one no need to worry.

 

On this basis what we face is a SD which the creditor will in all likelihood decide not to take to the stage of presenting a petition. I say this because the creditor

 

1 is in the business of collecting money, not spending it or devaluing its claim by ranking itself alongside all other unsecured creditors

2 will have to shell out as much as the claim again in fees to court, lawyers and the Official Receiever's deposit if it goes ahead with a petition

3 has employed the cheapest method to deliver the SD

4 has been slap dash in completing the SD

5 will be unable to prove service of the SD

 

The only time he will be able to prove service is if you go ahead with an application to the court to set aside the SD or write to him and acknowledge receipt. Which is why I was asking you to hold off writing until I knew whether there was a judgment.

 

If in your letter you have referred to receiving the SD then the cat will be out the bag in which event the creditor will be able to show service. In those circumstances I would apply to set aside the SD, even though there is, in my opinion, still only a mild risk the creditor would proceed with a petition. It's not a risk I'd be inclined to take especially if I didn't owe the creditor the money.

 

If in your letter you make no mention of the SD then all the better. All you will have done is confirm to them where you live these days and they probably knew that anyway. Plus, having the s77 request in the pipeline is serving to keep the creditor from taking steps to enforce until there has been compliance with the request.

 

X20

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I think I need to clarify what I am saying about the wisdom of doing nothing at this stage contrasted with the advice of ODC strongly urging you to go to the county court to set aside the SD and his (Winston's a man right?) invitation that you consider the short warning thread. I repeat the relevant aspect of the short warning thread as follows:

 

Mistake 1 - statutory demands.

It is my view that you should never ignore a statutory demand. The advice that you should pretend that you never received it is in my view, at best, immoral. At worst it could lead you into severe criminal liability.

In order to have a statutory demand set aside, you need to do it within 18 days of receiving it. The process of setting aside a statutory demand REQUIRES you to swear an oath or affirmation to the effect of the date you received the letter.

Alternatively, you could go to the bankruptcy hearing, and lie saying you did not receive it.

In either case, you would be committing a crime if you were to lie about when you first received the statutory demand.

It is, in my view, inadvisable to ever ignore a statutory demand. Instead, you should get professional advice; I would suggest the National Debt Line.

This is particularly the case if you own your own home, or have substantial public investments in the stock market.

 

First, my advice is directed solely to emmliss as the person seeking assistance in the circumstances peculiar to him. It is not directed to a general, non-specific enquiry. Neither do I consider it my place in assisting emmliss to encourage persons to present DIY applications in court in order to rid society of the plague of empty SD threats.

 

Second, I have never encouraged emliss to pretend he has not received the SD. There is a world of difference between swearing on oath that you have not received a document when you in truth have (activity), and doing nothing about the document (inactivity). If my advice was treated as encouragement to positively pretend the document had not been served, please revise your assessment.

 

Third and as I said, the advice was specific to emmliss. The knowns about emmliss's case are as follows:

 

1 the debt is old and allegedly relates to a debt from back in 2004

2 emliss can't remember anything about the debt or the credit card

3 implicit in the absence of any recollection is that in the intervening 4 years emliss can not recall receiving one piece of paper designed to remind him that there is a debt owing going back to 2004. That would be no use of the card for 4 years, no statements for 4 years, no default notice, no termination, no chasing letters, no earlier demands from a DCA. Nothing until the SD arrived.

4 The SD is defective. It [1] neglects to identify the court to which emmliss should present his application to set aside and [2] does not give a contact address, merely a telephone number.

5 The creditor failed to serve the SD in accordance with rule 6.3 without good reason.

6 there are unknowns (see below)

 

The other 'almost known' is that the purpose of the SD was to scare emmliss into entering into a dialogue with the creditor in order that they might squeeze some money out of him. It was not delivered for the purpose of establishing his inability to pay his debts as and when they fall due.

 

Thus, in answer to emliss's question 'What will happen do you think if i dont go to suffolk and get it set aside', you have my answer. I don't think the SD will be followed with a petition.

 

If my prediction proves wrong and a petition is presented, emmliss's position is by no means lost or in any way impaired. He is perfectly entitled to advance a defence and protect his position, to include an application to restrain advertisement and so on. In his defence he can refer obviously to the SD he was served and explain the reasons why he elected to treat the SD as a sham. The reasons are all set out above at 1-5. In my opinion a court is likely, once it sees the SD and learns about the method of service (don't bin the envelope) to regard the SD as the work of a comic and accept that, in the eyes of a common man, the SD had all the appearance of a sham which might fairly and rightly be ignored. He need not and should not lie and say he had never seen the document before.

 

Assuming the court accepts the defence the petition will be dismissed. Job done. That said I do not know what the defence will be because apart from the 'never heard of you' argument, the preparation of a defence is in limbo pending receipt of the agreement the creditor relies on and the statement of account, followed no doubt by other enquiries concerning the service of a default notice etc etc. These unknowns are yet more reasons why it would be premature at this stage to submit an application to set aside the SD.

 

I hope this clarifies my position and explains why notwithstanding the general information in the short warning thread, I do not recommend that you apply to set aside the SD at this point in time.

 

X20

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To palamino

 

A debtor has a right to apply to the court to set aside a SD at any time during the period of 18 days from the date of service or date of advertisement under rule 6.3(3). If the 18 days have expired his right to present an application is conditional upon his first succesfully making an application to the court for an extension of the 18 day time limit.

 

If an application to set aside is not made, the creditor is at liberty, at any time after 21 days have expired following service of the SD, to present a petition.

 

Sorry, forget about advertisement of the petition. It is the winding up petition which is advertised, not the bankruptcy petition, although a SD may be advertised under rule 6.3(3).

 

To ODC

 

I have no recollection of writing anything would would cause a careful reader to conclude that I believe people should not make DIY applications to the court. Likewise that I expressed the opinion that it is difficult to get a SD set aside. For this reason I should be grateful if a member more experienced than I would care to produce the text in which it is claimed I advance such opinions.

 

The facts are these: Applications to set aside which show good grounds succeed and those that don't don't. Simple as that.

 

Readers should bear in mind that as a matter of practice, courts do not issue applications to set aside SDs on presentation. Before issue they are vetted by a District Judge and only those which set out an arguable case are issued. The remainder are dismissed without a hearing.

 

X20

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No worries ODC and thanks for letting me know that I'd be wasting my time answering any queries you might pose.

 

Any one else reading this might want to think twice about determining the level of expertise a man may have simply by reference to the number of days he has been a member of this forum.

 

X20

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To answer your latest question emmliss:

 

The demand was served on 9 August. Your CCA s77 request was sent yesterday. Assuming I've done the counting right, the CCA s77 request will be deemed served on 15 August and 12 working days from 15 August takes you to 2 September 2008. In other words a state of non-compliance will not arise before 3 September.

 

Since the application to set aside the SD should be made in the period of 18 days beginning with the day of service, the last day for presenting an application to set aside is 27 August.

 

In short therefore you could not, on or before 27 August, say in an application to set aside the SD, that the creditor was in non-compliance with a s77 request. You would need to rely on some other ground. Besides a failure to comply in time with a s77 request is curable since the prohibition on enforcement is lifted the moment there is compliance. It really is not the razor edged sword some people make it out to be.

 

It would be dangerous in my opinion to say in your application that you have never held a Style account if in truth you don't know whether you have held one. Let us suppose the creditor produced good evidence that you had, like the agreement with your genuine signature on it. Then what? The court will either treat you as a liar or a person with the most attrocious and unreliable memory. Your credibility just went out the window.

 

It might be the case that the agreement, as and when and if it arrives, reveals a failure to comply with CCA regulations. But until you actually have a copy of the agreement in your hands, no one will be able to tell you whether it is CCA compliant or not.

 

That's why I'm sticking my neck out for you and cautioning against making an application to set aside the SD at this stage. If the pro-go issue think otherwise, no doubt they'll pick the bones out of my argument.

 

X20

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Ha ha mr.ton, point taken, though to be fair this is no joking matter. The worst might be worse than the worst (depending on your point of view) seeing how on this thread we're talking insolvency.

 

I'm no troll and if someone said that to me in my office they'd be shown the door (first offence pardoned). The hearing of the application to set aside is not a forum at which the creditor is first obliged to prove his debt. I've already explained that courts can dismiss them without even involving the creditor!

 

If people think I'm wrong will they please, for the sake of emmliss, go pick out the bones from my argument. Simply saying I'm wrong, a troll and other name calling without going on to explain in detail where the defects are in my argument is confusing emmliss and not especially helpful.

 

X20

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Bear39, I'm advising in the way I am for the detailed reasoning I have given. No one has yet even atempted to pull my reasoning to pieces which might imply that so far, no visitor to this thread has the means to do so. Simply saying that the dismissal of the SD is highly unlikely is not a reasoned argument. Additionally and with respect, saying for example that the worst that could happen is that emmliss gets herself a CCJ is to clearly misunderstand the nature of the proceedings contemplated. People are free to go look at other posts I have made over the last couple of days and decide whether it looks like I might have learned that stuff in the garden on Sunday or whether my knowledge might stretch back a little further than that.

 

Emmliss, you've found out the right court right? If you're determined to go and apply to set aside the SD, before you do so, I recommend you knock out in draft what you will want to say in your supporting affidavit and publish it to this thread for further consideration.

 

Alternatively one or more of those who have persuaded you to go to court might like to draft the non-dismissble supporting affidavit for you, because I sure as hell couldn't.

 

X20

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emmliss: So sorry you are being encouraged to take legal proceedings you (and I both) would not feel confident enough to launch.

 

palomino: A repayment order will not be made at the hearing of an application to set aside a SD. The court has no power to do so. The court's power is limited to dismissing or not dismissing the application to set aside and dealing with any consequential application for costs.

 

bear39: Yes I know. Whilst I share the view that the SD was delivered to scare the OP and that the likelihood of the creditor going ahead with a petition is low, I do not share the confidence of those who are encouraging emmliss to apply, that her prospects of failing in her application to set aside the SD are for example 'highly unlikely'.

 

X20

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I have previously dealt with the position in relation to service of the demand at post no5. Service by 2nd class post is not illegal, it merely places the creditor at risk that he will be unable to satisfy the requirements of rule 6.3. Further it is not an abuse of process or a waste of court time for a creditor to serve by 2nd class post. There is no 'issue' and service of SDs does not involve the court. Thus there is no process capable of being abused and no court time which gets wasted.

 

That the demand was served by 2nd class post does not of itself provide emmliss with the means to persuade the court to set aside the SD. The power of the court to set aside a SD is limited to those set out at rule 6.5(4)(a)-(d). Only 6.5(4)(d) would have any application, but an application on that ground would be likely to fail on the basis that the 'other ground' being a failure 'to do all that is reasonable for the purpose of bringing the SD to the debtor's attention and, if practicable in the particular circumstances, to cause personal service of the demand to be delivered' will be met by the answer that service by 2nd class post DID result in the SD being brought to the debtor's attention.

 

Mr Ton, agreed. But she's planning on going on Monday!

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emmliss, I am IN NO WAY, advising you to say that you never received the SD, because that would be untruthful.

 

Short answer:

I am simply advising against making an application to set it aside at this time because you would be unable to swear an affidavit which disclosed the criteria by which a court could strike out the SD. In short, I am advising in favour of doing nothing (now you have sent off your s77 request).

 

Long answer:

 

Point 1

Earlier I referred to rules 6.5(4)(a)-(d). These are the rules which control how the court should approach the question of whether to strike out a SD or not. So that you follow, I am setting them out below:

 

The court may grant the application if—

(a) the debtor appears to have a counterclaim, set-off or cross demand which equals or exceeds the amount of the debt or debts specified in the statutory demand; or

(b) the debt is disputed on grounds which appear to the court to be substantial; or

© it appears that the creditor holds some security in respect of the debt claimed by the demand, and either Rule 6.1(5) is not complied with in respect of it, or the court is satisfied that the value of the security equals or exceeds the full amount of the debt; or

(d) the court is satisfied, on other grounds, that the demand ought to be set aside.

 

In other words, your supporting affidavit must show the creditor probably owes money to you to at least the value of the claim against you or, you probably don't owe the money claimed by the creditor. You can ignore © on the basis this relates to a credit card and (d) is reserved for technical, legal situations, for example the debt has been acquired by assignment but there has been no valid notice of assignment given to the debtor to name but one.

 

I considered whether the method of service might qualify under (d) owing to a consideration of rule 6.3, but ruled that out. Another but which hitherto I had not posted, was whether a failure to indicate the appropriate court to apply to set aside, was an 'other ground', which I also reject on the basis that since the application to set aside will have found its way to the correct court before it is considered, there will have been no prejudice. You can not rely on the creditor's failure to comply with your s77 request because time for them to do that has not yet run out.

 

Since you haven't told us the creditor owes you a fortune (which I imagine you would have done had this been the case), and since at this moment in time you are unable to say that you have never entered into an agreement with the creditor or otherwise advance substantial grounds showing why the debt is disupted, you can not satisfy either (a) or (b). I imagine that the creditor does not hold any property of yours as security for the debt and to my way of thinking there are no technical or other features about the matter, the truth of which you could positively swear in the supporting affidavit. If so, then you can't satisfy © and (d) either.

There are no other grounds upon which a SD might be set aside.

 

Point 2

Besides all the foregoing, the creditor at present would be unable to verify on oath when the SD came into your hands. Being unable to do this prevents the creditor from fulfiling the requirements of rule 6.11.

 

rule 6.11 says:

(1) Where under section 268 the petition must have been preceded by a statutory demand, there must be filed in court, with the petition, an affidavit or affidavits proving service of the demand.

(2) Every affidavit must have exhibited to it a copy of the demand as served.

(3) Subject to the next paragraph, if the demand has been served personally on the debtor, the affidavit must be made by the person who effected that service.

(4) If service of the demand (however effected) has been acknowledged in writing either by the debtor himself, or by some person stating himself in the acknowledgement to be authorised to accept service on the debtor's behalf, the affidavit must be made either by the creditor or by a person acting on his behalf, and the acknowledgement of service must be exhibited to the affidavit.

(5) If neither paragraph (3) nor paragraph (4) applies, the affidavit or affidavits must be made by a person or persons having direct personal knowledge of the means adopted for serving the statutory demand, and must—

(a) give particulars of the steps which have been taken with a view to serving the demand personally, and

(b) state the means whereby (those steps having been ineffective) it was sought to bring the demand to the debtor's attention, and

© specify a date by which, to the best of the knowledge, information and belief of the person making the affidavit, the demand will have come to the debtor's attention.

(6) The steps of which particulars are given for the purposes of paragraph (5)(a) must be such as would have sufficed to justify an order for substituted service of a petition.

(7) If the affidavit specifies a date for the purposes of compliance with paragraph (5)©, then unless the court otherwise orders, that date is deemed for the purposes of the Rules to have been the date on which the statutory demand was served on the debtor.

(8) Where the creditor has taken advantage of Rule 6.3(3) (newspaper advertisement), the affidavit must be made either by the creditor himself or by a person having direct personal knowledge of the circumstances; and there must be specified in the affidavit—

(a) the means of the creditor's knowledge or (as the case may be) belief required for the purposes of that Rule, and

(b) the date or dates on which, and the newspaper in which, the statutory demand was advertised under that Rule; and there shall be exhibited to the affidavit a copy of any advertisement of the statutory demand.

(9) The court may decline to file the petition if not satisfied that the creditor has discharged the obligation imposed on him by Rule 6.3(2).

 

You will see that included in the strict requirements of rule 6.11, the court still has power to decline to file the petition if not satisfied the creditor has discharged the obligation under 6.3(2).

 

We know service was by 2nd class post. Service that way doesn't discharge the obligation. A petition is not going to get past the filing clerk, UNLESS service can be established by some other way, ie (a) because you wrote to them acknowledging service or (b) you said so in an application to set the SD aside.

 

Point3

No one who has posted to this thread has ever said there is a real risk the creditor will proceed to even attempt to present a petition.

 

Conclusion

Relying on Point 1, you have no grounds at present to persuade the court to accept your SD as showing cause whereby the SD might be set aside. It would very likely be dismissed without a hearing.

 

Relying on Point 2, by applying to set the SD aside you run the risk of providing the creditor with the means to prove service. By not applying, the creditor is faced with the obstacle that is rule 6.11.

 

Relying on Point 3, the creditor is probably not going to petition anyway.

Hence and I repeat for the umpteenth time, I do not recommend you apply to the court to set aside the SD. I advise you do nothing apart from switch off your computer and go and do something more interesting.

 

I'm going to do the same. I have no desire to rub shoulders with people who think that advising against going to law is sinister. Advising against going to law can save a person a heap of money. People should be afraid of clowns who encourage others to litigate but whoare unable to put together a cogent argument saying why.

 

I would have prefered not to boast, but to answer bear39's question, yep you're right. I've practiced civil litigation in English law offices every day without interuption since 1978. I came to this site to offer some assistance for free. On reflection, I think I'll stick to charging for it. People appreciate you so much more when they have to write a fat cheque out.

 

X20

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When I first signed up to this forum my entire raison d'etre was to help those in a pickle. I had not figured that there would be people with agendas who would hijack a thread and who would be hostile towards me. And even lately I had not figured, after being coaxed into revealing my background somewhat against my better judgment, that I ought to then qualify my statement of experience by deleting the weekends, the holidays and the days off for illness.

 

There is something quite depressing where, after spending hours of time in preparing an opinion running to 1400+ words, you're met by a bloke with an attitude just 8 minutes later, who claims you're a front for a debt collection agency. And by another who has the affrontery to suggest a year in a DCA threat centre would seem like my thirty. I've operated against DCAs. They're easy. They couldn't quote chuncks from the Insolvency Rules if they had the book in front of them. To be branded as in cahoots with all of those guys is deeply, deeply offensive.

 

It is for these reasons that I have called it a day. With a bit of luck I will be fit and well by Monday and able to return to a place packed with proper lawyers. There is I suppose one minor benefit from my short lived experience here in that I'll be able to tell my colleagues that when I was ill I rubbed shoulders with a fella who blurted 'Its only those with a sinister motive who want to keep people away from the courts' and at the same time had a monika under his name reading 'watch out there are Claims Touts about!' That's really, really funny!

 

I dare say that following this post, ther will be more of the usual agin me, the quote out of context and the dig and the jibe, and precious little hard lawyering. In all seriousness, I had not figured that contributing here would be so empty and unrewarding; that I would be met with rudeness and abuse. Sorry to anyone that may have valued my contributions, but I never needed the help, I only ever gave it away.

 

X20

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Even though this is a hostile place to operate, curiosity keeps me clicking in and out.

 

A couple of observations/ questions:

 

PT, Having seen where I am coming from in my advice, please state what parts of it you are in agreement with and what parts of it you are in disagreement with and in the case of those parts you are in disagreement with, for the benefit of all, please state why.

 

Generally:

 

1 the thread referred to by ScarletPimpernel at post 103 as giving an insight into the potential effects of ignoring a SD, clearly shows that the person's difficulties did not arise from ignoring the SD but rather arose from the making of an application to set aside the SD at a time when it was inadvisable to do so.

 

2 What are the substantial grounds upon which Emmliss disputes the debt? I'm sorry, I don't know.

 

X20

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