1. I'm putting my court bundle together this weekend - so i send to court AND claimant? 2. Registered / Special / Recorded Post? 3. Was thinking: no cca has been produced and a default has been put on my record: my mortgage scheme expires end march and BECAUSE of that default the only mortgage I can change to is one thats more expensive than standard high street schemes - could claimant be liable for the difference in the cost of my mortgage because of the default? - was just curious lol Anyway I printed off Court procedures and consumer credit act and am just working through them to back up my defence. Is there anything else I should do this weekend on my case? Sam

Bump No.3 though no rush And what should I include in my 'court bundle' if there a link I can read about court bundles? I guess it's just a copy of everything I'm going to use. - what makes an enforcable agreement - just so I'm clear?

Yes I agree to some extent it IS the parents responsibility to teach a kid the value of money. What things cost, how to save for something you want, I agree (and was taught all of that). But by time I left school I was having credit card applications shoved in my face at every store, having loans offered to me etc etc. I have to say that ultimately I WAS responsible for that, but don't remember having any idea of the consequences of JUST HOW MUCH financial debt I COULD get into. It didnt occur to me at the time to ask my parents what DR meant, what an apr was, or a CCJ. Though I do remember them warning me about cards it just didn't make me stop and think 'hmmm maybe I should do some sums'. I dont know whats missing, maybe it's a combination of things. Mayeb I was just one of those thickies. though it HAS eventually sunk in, 17 years later.

Hey marmite if this gets chucked out I'll be getting EVERYONE ON HERE DRUNK. Will bump ya tomorrow have a pleasant evening

BEJESUS NO, bankruptcy should not be an option for ten grand debt. Goodness me there are other options I'm sure. I owe more than that right this minute! I had a period of unemployment last year (6 months .... HELLLLLL and it almost finished me) The only non-legal advice I can give is (I'm sure you've already considered) : - Tighten the purse strings RIGHT NOW not in a few days/weeks/months time - If you have any direct debits on your account that you can cancel, do it. Send recorded delivery letters to any you cancel and explain your situation, ask what options are available to you - If you have a spare room in your house, get a lodger - Send recorded delivery letters to everyone else you pay money to and explain the situation, asking what options are available to you - Basic budget cuts:, you could go payg on your mobile, for instance - Your social life, hmmm nope. you're on sabbatical. - Shop cheap: i.e. tesco value, sainsburys basics (shockingly big difference in cost) - in your letters you send out - state that you authorise people to contact you by LETTER only - believe me I went through hell with creditors phoning me ALL day, every day. Some days I got 32 calls a day (I counted) - If any renewals pop up while you are unemployed (car insurance etc) - do shop around, I never bothered for years and have just saved three hundred squid on my car insurance - Tell your family and friends - I can't stress enough how important everyones support was when I eventually told them I was in financial trouble - they might surprise you - Sign on - by time I even thought about claiming unemployment benefit I'd lost about four months worth (you can only back-claim four weeks if I remember correctly) - The best advice I got when I had some money to pay creditors was "always offer them SOMETHING, even if it's a fiver, keep them informed and never stop paying" that way they have less to whinge about. - Come here for advice if your creditors get arsey, which of course they will. Good luck

I'm no expert but if you have it in writing that they are not in posession of a credit agreement they are ALREADY in summary criminal default from your original request, period. Its 12 working days from request unless I am mistaken, though an expert should clarify.

If they didn't bother defending it you should have added a couple of 'zeros'

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH thankyou so much, if you could point me to quotes and possible wordings that would be great. I filed a defence wayyyyyyyy back when requested which said: ============================================ xxxxxxxxxxx (Claimant) and xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Defendant) CLAIM REF: xxxxxx 1)The Defendant objects that the Claimant's statement of case does not comply with the Civil Procedure Rules Part 16 in that a copy of the purported written agreement between itself and the Defendant, which it cites in paragraph 2) and 3) of the Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served attached to the claim form. The Defendant is therefore unable to plead specifically to the allegations contained within the Particulars of claim at this time. 2)The Defendant has repeatedly requested a copy of the written agreement cited by the Claimant in its Particulars of claim (the first request being 19th February 2007), along with other such documentation in respect of the Defendant's alleged indebtedness to the Claimant, under a Data Protection Act 1998 Section 7 "Right of Subject Access" request. The Claimant has failed to comply. The Claimant continues repeatedly to produce (9 months after asking) a CCA for a completely different account which was cancelled and closed in late 2002. This does not relate in any way to the account against which the Claimant has issued its proceedings. 3)Further to paragraph 2) above, a demand has been submitted by the Defendant under section 77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, requiring the Claimant to provide true copies of the alleged original agreement (the first request being 19th February 2007), as well as true copies of all documents referred to therein. The Defendant avers that whilst a creditor fails to comply with such demand any agreement would be unenforceable in its entirety by virtue of section 77(4) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. 4)The Defendant objects that this action has been brought prior to the Claimant providing essential information and documentation, as outlined in paragraph's 2) and 3) above, despite repeated requests that it do so. The Defendant avers that the Claimant has acted without adherence to or regard for the Pre Action Protocols of the Civil Procedure Rules. Accordingly, the Defendant requests a stay in proceedings until such time as the Defendant complies with the requests outlined in paragraph's 2) or 3) above and is therefore able to provide the necessary documentation in order that it can plead its case in compliance with CPR 16. The Defendant reserves the right to then plead further to the Allegations contained within the Particulars of claim. ================================================== 1. So I'll just refer to that in the hearing? 2. is there anything I should add? 3. Should I remove the 'requests a stay until such time...' and request the case be struck out entirely? 4. Can I get the default they've issued removed? (off to research that now though judge did say at pre-hearing that I would need a solicitor for that?) 5. The only thing they could say regarding my cca request was that it wasn't sent recorded however they acknowledged receipt in writing so I've answered my own question there. Anyway I've asked several times and they've had a LOT of '12 working days'... 6. Is there anything I need to send CC company prior to hearing? I have been corresponding with court - should claimant have copies of my defence? Pretty sure I sent it but should I cover my back here? Thanks for your help and sorry for all the questions. Phew big, HUGE weight off my mind so far. ?????

Oooh thanks, I'll try that. No calls today but I'll still send in - they come in flurries. Morgan Stanley are worse, one day I got 32 calls from them. I'll let you know what happens Sam

You know, I say this to anyone who'll listen; I'm not sure whether this happens in schools these days but kids really need to be TAUGHT about - personal finances - credit - interest rates - debt I had a bank account when I was in school and by the time I left I had been allowed to go overdrawn before I even knew what "overdrawn" meant!! So, do you think kids should be taught something about the BASIC money management, dangers of credit cards, loans, how easily debt can spiral out of control, and the consequences? These are REAL skills in my humble opinion. I've always thought we tend to start blind with this stuff. I certainly did (and am still in a right mess!)

ok see where they getting, original agreement applies as in effect it the same account. >>>> Funny you should say that, but I've looked AGAIN at what they've sent me and it is in fact the original application form I completed. On the bottom it says "account number xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx" (same as the number on card). just to confirm the money owed is correct BEFORE card was stolen NOT after? >>>>Yes. you told them ASAP that the card was stolen? >>>> They actually told me, unusual purchases. (2500 watches in belgium...) as to the agreement you signed, was it an agreement or an application form? >>>> An application form is what they have sent me when I asked for CCA. And I quote from their letter "now that you are in receipt of credit agreement could you please contact me further with a view to settlement of the debt?" if back in 2000 it more likly to be application form, do you have a copy of it? or done CCA request for it? >>>> Yes, 19th Feb 2007 I requested, and I asked for three things: "true copy of the signed nationwide credit card agreement" "true copy of the consumer credit act agreement" "true copy of the signed credit card protection application" on the 18th June, I got a response: "Please find enclosed a copy of the credit card agreement. If there are any further documents that you require, please contact me further so that this can be arranged. Now that you are in receipt of credit agreement could you please contact me further with a view to settlement of the debt? If you require further information please do not hesitate to contact me." if so does it contain the prescribed terms? ======================================================= >>>>> Not that I can see - it's a basic application form for a credit card containing: - principal cardholder details (my name address contact details etc) - employer details - description of payment protection insurance with tick box (yes, want, no don't want) - Card ptoection Plan prices and tick boxes - I ticked 25.00 for 3 years. - additional cardholder details (if required) Then it has two lines "Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The parties are Nationwide Credit card services adress blah and the person whose name appears in the Primcipal Cardholder Details section of the application form. The Nationwide Credit Card Conditions form part of this agreement" Then signature declaration. My signature, date 25/7/2000 Then box for society use only: Account number: xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx DAte Account opened: Prefix: Signed on behalf of nationwide: 4/8/2000 ======================================================= soz for 20 questions can get it sorted quicker that 1 at a time >>>>>>>>>

Well the card was stolen and fraudulently used. I was subsequently issued with a new card, different number. Just reading up on 'account numbers' now. Guessing that changes things?

Hmm similar situation I am researching for a hearing 25th Feb: Applied for card (application) Got cca which I signed, they initialled Card stolen, cancelled card. (end of cca?) Card replaced. Nothing sent for me to sign, ever. Arguments over PPI (dont remember asking for it) Default I'm guessing my credit card company are in a whole lot of trouble from what I've been reading?

OK thanks. I've been asked to respond to comments from them to court by CoP tomorrow so I will jsut say: - They failed to respond to a court order in time - They failed to produce a valid executed credit agreement - In the absence of any agreement the default they have issued is unlawful. - They are required to have a new CCA for any replacement card they issue (and never have, I have certainly NEVER had one to sign) (On that last point, I read that somewhere here but can't remember where I saw it - can anyone point me to it! ty) And leave it at that. I am sure they are trying to bully me into agreeing OoC settlement but I'm determined on this one. I am remortgaging end of March so can't afford anything 'worse' to happen to my credit reference between now and then - I just wish I could delay the hearing but oh well one can't have everything. Wish me luck, hearing 25th Feb ~clatteringnerves~

ickle bump

mrmarmite, appreciate anything you might have to add, I have to get my comments in by tomorrow. Thanks Sam

Hello, I bought some internet domain names and hosting plans from Hotchilli several years ago, I bought them online, never signed anything. When these came around for renewal (and we are going back to end 2006) I received renewal notice in post. The renewal notice says nothing about 'automatic renewal' and at the bottom it says 'if you do not renew you risk losing your domain name'. This, I thought was fine, as I didn't want the domain names anymore I'd let them expire. Since the end of 2006 they've been sending me monthly invoices for the daomains I didn't want. I emailed them saying that I wish to cancel them and they responded saying that I had to log in to my account at their site and cancel them from the control panel thinmgamy. When I couldn't remember the password, I ask them for it and never heard anything back. For the majority of 2007., but much worse last four or five months, Hotchilli have been calling my mobile phone between once and ten times every other day, either leaving a message about 'the outstanding invoices' or leaving blank, four-minute messages. I sent another email to them Jan 10th (last week) saying this: ================ I have asked on several occasions after receiving renewal notices in 2006 for these domains that they are not to be renewed. Since then you have harrassed me with phonecalls and letters and repeatedly attempted to charge a credit card which I did not authorise you to do. I have asked repeatedly you to stop contacting me by telephone, yet still I am receiving messages and blank four-minute messages from your company. I have told you repeatedly that these domains and any product associated with them is not to be renewed. I no longer authorise you to: 1. Contact me in any way, shape or form 2. Attempt to charge any card details which you have. 3. Retain or keep private and personal information as I have had no contract or agreement with you for over a year, if ever. If you feel that I owe you money, please feel free to issue proceedings against me in the small claims court providing evidence that I requested you to renew any products you claim I owe money against including copies of agreements signed by me. If you continue to attempt to contact me or charge my cards I will be taking advice as to how to proceed legally for harrassment, you holding details without my authority, and the relevant authorities regarding your attempts to charge cards I no longer own without authorisation. I will also be taking advice in relation to my Human Rights, as your treatment in this respect including repeated disregard of my written requests constitutes harrassment and has forced me to take remedial action, including considering changing my personal details to stop the harrassment. Yours sincerely. ================ Since Jan 10th, I have received a further 10 phonecalls from them - again they are either blank or from someone 'regarding outstanding invoices'. I really dont want to change my mobile number since I've had it for 11 years - how can I definitively make it stop? These calls are making me ill - I feel quite literally sick every time my mobile rings and have more than enough to deal with on my plate at the moment. Appreciate any advice you might be able to give. Sam

Is a Company in any breach of any part of the Data Protection Act by responding to a SAR 6 months after asking (with only partial documentation)? If so, what action could be taken as a result? I'm guessing I couldn't get a claim thrown out for this?

I already know that the information they will be relying on in court is the CCA they have already sent me for the old card - on the basis that they say that it applies to any and every card issued to me (even though my old cancelled card no. is written along the top) And I need to know whether this is true. Because if it is, I need to prepare accordingly.

p.p.s Instead of throwing the case out on 8th December which was a deadline in an ORDER 22nd October, the court has said: ".....The time for claimant to comply with paragraph 2 of the Order 22nd October 2007 is extended until 4pm on 18th December 2007 retrospectively" (18th December was when cc co DID respond, but still with their original argument, no documents, deadline WAS 8th December) Can you make sense of this? is it fair? why would they have done this? (I was all happy after 8th December as I thought I was home-free to a certain extent)

Thats just it though, the court hasn't said 'right you buggers, you haven't produced a credit agreement, therefore you are stuffed' - they are proceeding with the hearing - or are they likely to say it then? Is anyone SURE about the old card number thing? I'd really like to sleep tonight knowing theres some hope. Thanks for the replies! I'm really down about this, I want it all to go away.

I am currently going through 8 years of credit card records as one of my claims is that PPI was still being charged after I asked them in writing twice and by phone several times to cancel it. My question is? How do I know what interest they might have charged against these payments? Thanks Sam

Hi, My credit card company are taking me to court for the balance of the card. I was issued a card with them (and signed a credit agreement) in 2000, this card was reported stolen and cancelled about a year later. Last year, the company wrote to me saying that they couldn't find any credit agreement for the card in my possession. I didn't sign anything. Anyway, to cut a long story short, my court hearing is in February and they are saying that the original credit agreement I signed (they sent a copy - it has the original card number on it, different to the one they are claiming against) applies to any cards I have with them. I REALLY need to know if this is true please? I repeat, ALL they have is a credit agreement for a card that was stolen and subsequently cancelled. I didn't sign anything for the card I got after that. Do I have any leg to stand on in this matter? I keep writing to the court saying they have NOT produced any credit agreement for the card they are claiming against but so far the court hasn't put a stop to any hearing or action by them. Secondly, they were given until the 8th December to produce the credit agreement (by the COURT), they didn't respond by this date - they wrote to me on the 18th DEcember saying the old agreement applies and the court retrospectively extended the 8th DEcember to the 18th December. I now have until Wednesday to add any comments before this thing happens. Any suggestions, PLEASE I am absolutely desperate. If I don't have any leg to stand on I will be listing all unlawful charges on the account since inception to maybe lessen the blow - but I need to know what to do now. Thanks Sam

Thanks Becka I'll try that. And Jen, you're joking, I scrolled through posts here after I posted and found one landlord who appeared set upon like wolves by everyone. Nooo thankyou, I'm already in fear for my safety and sanity. I have popped a suggestion over to the administrators of the site to possibly re-name this forum 'Advice for Tenants' so landlords dont wander into the wrong side of the stadium too often, I hope they do. Peace.

Nevermind, I can see this isn't the place, I dont see any landlords posting. Could an administrator possibly re-name this forum 'HELP FOR TENANTS' ??