Thanks for all the advice but I am a little confused. I have already sent the “show me what you’ve got” letter and received a reply with documentation including deed of assignment and statements. They have provided bank print outs of the history of the account but they have been unable to locate the original account opening letter and terms and conditions. My understanding from the debt forum is that current account debts are different to general loan / credit card debts under the CCA and that the burden of proof is much lower. As such by providing statements it is not worth my while contesting that the account is mine. (Is that correct?). In relation to the charges should I attempt to reclaim from Barclays even though the account is closed and it is has been sold onto the DCA? Barclays have rebuffed any contact and said that I should go through the DCA asa the debt has been sold on. The DCA is saying “sorry you can’t reclaim any charges due to the bank charge test case”. The bank and the DCA have added £25 each “administration fee” to the account along with interest applied by Barclays but again are prepared to waive this down to the original balance of the account. They will however drop the balance to the exact amount that the debt was without charges (around £340) which is obviously a starting point. However this amount is still beyond my current means and I’m looking for any other angle that I’ve missed to gain an advantage with these parasites.

of course!!

Well Barclays have sold this debt onto the DCA. They have provided statements etc which show the debt is mine but no original letter. I am wondering if they can apply these charges if they can't provide an orignal letter saying they would charge them. Although of course if i raise this what's to stop them simply recreating one now? I have offered them £50 so if i send CB's letter will that contradict my offer of £50?

Thanks for that, i am seriously considering bankruptcy anyway. I've made them a lump sum offer of £50 which they've rejected. I want to know what kind of ground i stand on before i go forward. Like anyone i want to try and get the best deal i can.

Having written to the DCA I have today had a letter back from them. Their general points (and my questions are): 1) They are unable to provide the original opening letter containing terms and conditions and have suggested I contact Barclays direct for this. (is there any validity in pursing this information? Is it relevant to help me in this case or should I just leave it?) 2) The original debt was £674.92 but the balance passed onto the DCA was £720.56. they say that £20.64 of interest was added plus an administration fee of £25 from Barclays, then a £25 administration fee from the DCA. (Are these charges legal and is there anything I can do to contest these?) 3) They will not agree that Barclays charges are illegal and refer o the test case being considered by the High Court. (I know of the case but is it true DCA’s / banks are not crediting these amounts? 4) They will accept a lump sum offer of the amount for £374.92 which is the amount less the charges. ( I cannot afford this in one lump) Any general ideas for a strategy going forward?

Been away, thanks very much for all the advice. Will have a look at all this and revert oncei have digested it all.

An agent of Barclays contacted me about a debt for £750. I sent off the CCA letter and have today received a letter back saying that the alleged debt refers to a bank current account. The DCA claims that a bank O/D is exempt from part V of the CCA so no signed documents are necessary from them. Now the debt is £648 but they are actually claiming £750. Within this figure (they have sent me statements) are around £400 of £25 referral fee charges. Can I legally take off these charges as being excessive? Also the debt has risen by over £100 from when the account was closed. I presume this is interest and charges. Are they allowed to charge this under law? Can I fight these charges? Does anyone have a stock letter reply that they could let me see? Can anyone offer any general advise in how to fight this and if I’m missing anything.

The letter from them i attached in one of my earlier posts and this is my proposed reply incorporating the points that people have rasied today. Any comments welcome before i send it:

Ok, so i should write asking for those terms? I will send a letter todaqy. Who's to say though that the terms they give us now will be the terms issued then?

The agreement they have sent me is headed “Conditional Sale Agreement regulated by The Consumer Credit Act 1974”. There is no mention of cancellation rights but there is a clause on termination only after £7900 has been paid. A small clause on the document also says “before you sign you should read the terms of this agreement carefully including those on the following pages and that you understand them”. They have not though provided the “following pages” so I cannot upload them to see what you think of them.

Hummm.. So can you clarify the bottom line for me? If i recevied this document by post i have a right to cancel and they may not enforce.

ok let me think and try to be certain exactly what happened about signing it, as it is 4 years ago now and i've slept since then!!

Why is this important? What angle are you considering?

I was given an agreement to sign by the finance broker (not the lender) when I met her at my office. I signed it in my office and then it was taken away by the broker and she presumably mailed it off to the lender.

Well it wasn’t signed at the lenders premises. It was signed at my office with the finance broker who arranged the deal. What about the selling of the car at auction well below market value? Is that an area I can apply pressure on? Also what about the penalty charges, can I reclaim those?

Thank you for all your help. Greatly appreciated.

Sure no problem. Here’s the details: 1. Total Cash price: £10,999.00 2. Finance Deposit: £0 3. Amount Financed (1+2): £10,999.00 4. Total Charge for Credit: £4,839.58 Made up of: Finance Charges £4,674.58 Credit Facility Fee: £105.00 Title Discharge Fee: £60.00 5. Balance Payable (3+4): £ 15838.58 6. total Amount Payable (2+5): £ 15838.56 7. APR 16.62% You will pay: A first vehicle instalment of £366.23 Followed by 58 Monthly vehicle instalments of £261.23 Followed by a final vehicle instalment of £321.01

What has happened here is that they repossessed the car and then auctioned it off on the cheap. That refers to the £5150 “AUC” charge being subtracted from the balance on page 2 of the statement. Here’s an interesting one though. The car was sold for approximately £5150 in 2005 at auction according to this statement, yet its real value was at worst £7000- £7500. What’s the legal position on this? After all where is the incentive for the creditor to get the best price for it when he can come to the original debtor for the shortfall? Can I argue that as the car has been undersold by around £2000 that should come off the figure? I have just checked Parkers guide and the car today, in 2007, is worth the same £5150 that they sold it for 2 years ago! In relation to the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request, is there any point? Doesn’t this statement cover all their charges? They only thing I would think I would need is the definition of the keys they put next to the charges to work out what each charge means.

Thanks! Look forward to hearing from you.

Shameless bump!! Any one offer any advise on whether the agreement is ok and any general advice about my next move?

I have now received a large pack of info from these people. Included is an agreement signed by me, statements and deed of assignment. I have included links to the agreement and the statements. First of all can any of the experts advise if this agreement copy is kosher? It looks it to me but any advice would be appreciated. Secondly if it is ok then I need to look at the charges and I have included links to these. Can anyone advise exactly about penalty charges? Can you reclaim the full amount or a partial amount over an acceptable level of charges? I also have a letter from them denying they went into default on the CCA request because they allegedly didn’t receive my second letter to them, which reconfirmed the CCA request. However I do not accept this as my first letter, which they queried was a clear request. Finally can anyone advise a strategy for me going forward with these people? http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd138/albertiniwonk/letter.jpg http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd138/albertiniwonk/Statement1001.jpg http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd138/albertiniwonk/Statement2001.jpg http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd138/albertiniwonk/Agreement001.jpg

Thanks for the input TT. I did send them a formal CCA request and SAR (but oops forgot to include the money, silly me ). My strategy is to hit them for everything that they’ve got. This alleged debt goes back to 2000-2001 I believe from their correspondence. So I’m not confusing the two requests, I’m simply trying to see precisely what they’ve got in the way of paperwork and agreements, and on top of that what records they hold on this account. If they’ve no paperwork then I’m thinking the S.A.R. is irrelevant anyway.

Well this is what i've got so far. I'm not sure of the exact legislation for current accounts or the legislation relating to the provision of docs by the creditor. Any comments welcomed & appreciated

True to form like the rest of the DCA Muppets I’ve had another threatogram letter from these plant pots today. Suffice to say there is no mention of my previous letter, no direct reply nor any agreements or CC agreements. A suitable reply is being constructed as we speak. However I just wondered what part of the CC Act covers Overdrafts. Is it section 74? This will be a part of my letter. Also what part of the CCA covers requests for documents etc?

To: honest_as_they_come English. Do you speak it? Please run along as your village is clearly missing its idiot. Thank you & goodbye.