Get ready for the follow up letters guys and gals. Received mine today saying that unless i contact them to resolve the matter they reserve the right to instruct solicitors or "alternatively issue this case to one of our debt recovery agents to attend your premises to execute further recovery procedures" Oh aye, and what recovery procedures exactly can they execute? Muppets.

I've had the same today for an alleged Goldfish debt. I have never had an account with Goldfish! It also refers to Aktiv Capital. Nope never had an account with them either. Says exactly the same on the header of my letter. The dreaded B word! Thais is getting filed in the bin!

This is the issue here. The people on Credit Today don't want you knowing your rights, they don't want their "clients" to be able to answer back or to take advice from people who may not be qualified solicitors but have in some cases more knowledge in the area of CCA than many solicitors. They don't want their actions reported by their "clients" to the various bodies. They don't want your CCA request or SAR because they then know they will come under scrutiny on here and they know that they can't then get away with the outrageous actions that constitutes their standard operating procedures. They want it all their own way. The want us to be frightened and to accept their threats without question even though in many cases the DCA's are being deceitful, actively lying, using underhand and sometimes illegal methods to chase debts in full that they have paid pennies in the pound for. They do not want us to question them, their methods or their threatograms and threatocalls. They say "do as we say not do as we do" and many of them are now it would seem struggling under the weight of their own illegal and underhand activities. They get all that they deserve. They have a job to do but there are ways and means. The shouldn't buy unenforceable debts and pretend they can enforce them or launch legal action hoping that this will scare people and enforce and unenforceable debt through scare tactics and threats. The shouldn't phone over and over again, they shouldn't send cards pretending they have a package for you, or send "courier messages" to your neighbours. The shouldn't issue Stat Demands, dodgy Default Notices or County Court action when they don't have the right paperwork. How about only buying legitimate enforceable debt and actually working with the debtors to try and resolve it? Not frighten them with bailiffs, CCJ's, loss of home and other ambiguously worded threats that can cause untold misery to people and has led to some people taking their own lives. Don't add punitive interest rates which only exacerbate problems when they have no hope of getting the original amount back let alone spurious interest and penalty charges. Work to what people can afford and get them to pay that, then leave them alone to get on with paying it and to continue living their lives. It will save them money in costs, probably result in them receiving more money from debtors and improve their standing as an industry. I believe that methods aside the biggest problem with the debt collection industry is they have a fundamental inability to understand that not everyone is a cheat looking to fleece money out of financial institutions. Most people are good honest hard working people who due to circumstances are unable to pay the commitments they took on when their circumstances were better. Lost your job? Tough luck pay us our money. You've become ill? Tough luck pay us our money. Had to stop work to care for a family member? Tough luck pay us our money. Until they grasp this concept or are forced to grasp it by Govenrment they get all they deserve and i for one raise a toast to this forum and the excellent contributors on it. Long may it continue.

Right, defence submitted online! That was easy! I'll keep this thread updated when i get a reply form either the claimant or the courts. Once again Andy thanks for all your help!

Just a further update. We have an old letter going back to last year which states they are not able to produce an agreement due to the age of the account. They hide behind the fact that as this is a bank account they do not have to provide one. This makes me wonder if they have no record of statements etc as well. If that is the case where would this leave things? They claim my brother owes them money yet have no evidence to back this up. Would this be sufficient to get this case struck out?

Just

Andy Thanks for all your help. I will be submitting via MCOL and will follow your advice in relation to the printing of the time submission. I will update when i hear more back after submitting this defence.

Andy thanks for your help. this is what i've got now, cna you advise if it looks coherent enough to submit:

***BUMP*** Please can advise whether this is accpetable to submit as my defence? i need to submit today. Many Thanks.

Based on the fact they've given us no info under CPR i've reworked the defence accordingly. Please can someone advise if it's ok to submit:

Yesterday we got the now obligatory letter from Cohen's saying "don't need more info...blah...blah all detail in the summons...blah blah" Really? Well where's the original agreement? Where's the statements, list of charges? So what they are saying is that by sticking " you owe us approx £1500" on a summons document that's all they need to do to get judgement!! Forget proof or unlawful charges. Muppets. Right can anyone advise my next move. Questions i have are: 1) Do i write back to the Cohen's or not? 2) Do i amend the defence above to include the fact that they won't give me any info? 3) If so can anyone suggest what i should add to the defence to highlight the fact they won't give me any information? Many thanks!

Right, i've had a trawl around the site and i've come up with this as a temporary place holder defence. Thanks to PT for this which he drafted for another poster. Can anyone confirm that it's ok for me to use as a placeholder as we think the account in question is a bank account rather than a loan? Once i have posted this to the courts via their online systemdo i then have to inform the court to change the defence if we do indeed receive any info in from the claimant or their sols or cna i go back in and amned the defence? All feedback welcomed and appreciated!

Well according to their POC it's 28th Spetember (not December as i've listed above) 2007. But without a document from them i can't confirm this.

No, it's not statue barred as he's been making token monthly payments for some time, really in panic along with all his other creditors, rather than becuase he geuninely thought he owed this amount. It was only when i encourgaed him to do a review on his creditors that it came to light we had no documentation or evidence about this alleged debt hence the CCA request back in January. No default notice or NOA were received either.

Sure. Here's What they've said in the POC: The claimant’s claim is for the sum of £1423.611 being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under an overdrawn bank account originated with HSBC PLC under reference 402715/xxxxxxx and assigned to the claimant on the 28th December 2007, notice of which has been given to the defendant. The account was maintained without sufficient funds to meet withdrawals made by the defendant. The claimant claims the sum of £1423.61. That account number looks like a bank aco**** number as it contains an HSBC sort code. That account my brother reckons goes back to 2001/2002. However he does not know of the (if any) balance owing on there and indeed looking at other threads it will be interesting to see if this aco**** is showing a zero balance. If there was a balance on there i can say with certainty it was nowhere near that level at which point the issue of penalty charges rears its ugly head. As i said earlier it's hard to know when they issue proceedings without furnishing the details of what they're claiming for.

Thanks chaps! Can you point me in the direction of a template "placeholder" and full defence that i can begin working on? I guess if i submit a placeholder based on the fact they have given us no infomration about this account, i'm ok to amend that defence later when and if they send me the documentation under CPR?

Just to recap, my brother was paying £1 per month to them and all otehr creditors. Following a review of his affairs we decided to CCA all creditors. Indeed CL got a letter on the 17th January 2008 asking for CCA details. No reply after 12 or 30 days from CL. He heard nothing from them until he recived a letter from CL on the 30th June dated the 27th June asking for a payment. The summons arrived the next day dated 30 June! so they sent a letter aksing for money about the same time they issued a summons. Can they issue a summons whilst in default of a CCA request?

Andy The summons we received is dated 30th June 2008. I think it was 14 days but by acknolweding we have extended it 28 days to 28th July. PT Thanks for this link i'll have a good read! This one is sticking in my throat becuase of the way they can fire out a summons before they actually prove you owe the debt or the amount they claim. Surely they should not be allowed to issue until they have provided all info. In its current form the way these clowns are allowed to "shoot first and ask questions later" clogs up the entire legal system and appears to be totally vexatious.

Ok so now we've acknowledged service online. We have denied all the debt as we have had no documentaion from CL that the debt belongs to bruv or that the amount they are claiming is genuine. We've also written to Cohens for disclosure. Be interesting to see how they reply and if they do indeed disclose anything. This one may be a little different to the normal defences posted on here as it relates to a bank account rather than a loan agreement. I recall that the burden of proof under CCA is lower for a bank account. Still we'll see what develops. I'l post any updates. I'm not sure if i should be lodging a "placeholder" defence right now. Should i leave it until i get some reply from Cohens?

My brother has received a CC summons from CL Finanace in relation to an alleged HSBC bank account for £1400. The situation was he had been paying nominal amounts every month to all creditors, but he reviewed his debt situation and wrote to all creditors asking for details of the debts owed, original agreements, statements etc. Few of them replied including CL, who were handling an alleged HSBC bank account. In line with the procdures advised on this site after 30 days of non replies he stopped paying them their £1 per month. He received a letter from them on friday asking for payment (no mention of the request for information letter he sent them that they defaulted on). He was preparing a letter to them in reply pointing out they had ignored his request for information but this morning (following Tuesday) a CC summons has arrived! Bar Stools! So i just require for him some help in terms of procedures, way forward and possible defence bearing in mind this is for a bank account debt and not a standard loan agreement. He has no idea about this account (it goes back 5 years or so) and if it is genuine he has seen no statements or anything to substantiate their claim. Thanks in advance.

So what should be my next move? Ask them for the other document. If they can't supply it or don't have it where does that leave it? Is this agreement unenforcable until they supply them? What is to stop them simply recreating T&C's now? If they did that would that make this enforcable?

Thanks for the info. Having looked at other threads I’ve found this from Curly Ben: Does this mean then, bearing in mind the agreement they have provided contains no T & C’s, that this agreement is also fully unenforceable?

Received in this morning's mail (why does it always come on a weekend ) the following alleged agreement relating to a business loan which was converted into a personal loan back in 2004. Can any of the experts advise if this agreement is legitamite and could stand up in court. There were no T & C's with it or built into the document. Is this is an issue? http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd138/albertiniwonk/CreditAgreement1.jpg As always thanks in advance.

Ok thanks for the advice!

Thanks for the help but let me clarify. The DCA was originally claiming £748, but the actual debt to Barclays was £648. With the charges off the actual balance is the £340. The DCA will take off the charges ONLY if i pay the full £348 in one full payment which i cannot afford to do. They are saying that if i do not pay in full the charges stand. Now i know this is bow locks but is there anyother legal instrument i can use to screw them down even more? Bearing in mind the debt with charges off is £348 i have offered them £50 in full and final and they've rejected it and refered to their £348 in full one payment offer.