Thanks for the input.......yes it was for a credit card.....and not only doesnt it have the prescribed terms........it doesnt have there NAME AND ADDRESS either, or a proper header, along with a load of other stuff missing and the bottom of the doc torn off and yes they have sent me about 20-30 pages of A4 with some nicely printed terms and conditions that they swear were on the back.....hmmmmm I dont owe them a penny as I settled up before I realised what a bunch of cowboys they were. This will not stop me from pursuing them though...I want my interest back rgds Dave

Dont think so.....the 1983 regs were ammended 2004 but I think they only came into force in May 2005... However nothing much altered as regards the prescribed terms etc. Dave

It is a precursor to litigation and they have to, or can be made to comply. Try looking here for info, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html ............... and of course the HMCS website CPR rules rgds Dave

Just got my first reply from Barclayshark....... "I refer to my previous letters...blah blah blah go away dont bother me" to paraphrase Not good enough first shot across the bows coming up............. Dear mr barclayshark Thank you for your prompt reply, the contents of which have been noted. Further to my letter of the 6th Jan 2009 and your reply received here on the 9th Jan, I was hoping to achieve a resolution without the need for court action, and in fact I have been very understanding of your position. Like you I agree that this seems to be going round in circles and would ask you to reconsider your position one last time. I suspect though that my request will fall on deaf ears However, in light of our recent comunications it seems as though litigation is the only way forward and to that end there is information that I need you to confirm, for me to asses the values and merit of the case. I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature and any other documents that you may rely upon in our intended litigation, including but not limited to the original terms and conditions that were in effect. I require this as I have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed, and in fact unenforceable. Obviously if the agreement is improperly executed I would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement. I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974, but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore an unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances. Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document and any other documents that may be relevant. I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the documents which I have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides I look forward to your reply and would ask for a response by no later than 4pm on 30th Jan 2009 This is not a path that I would choose to go down lightly, but it seems as though I have no other alternative, and every avenue has already been exhausted However I honestly believe that the law is on my side and that I will prevail. I will wait until the end of the generous time period allowed and then file the N1. Thank you for your indulgence Yours Sincerely .............................................. Lets see what that brings Dave

YES......mine was too!!! go cca them rgds Dave

there are drawbacks to everything........get some advice, but imho it looks like the way to go They may well still try to bankrupt you...if that happens I dont think you can be a director....but new rules apply and you only need ONE director of a company. there is nothing stopping parents / relations / friends / an accountant or nominee from being a director.........be carefull though GET ADVICE and check it out first before you jump......it has / is working for me, your case may be different good luck Dave

A limited company is a separate legal entity...it can own assets. just because you are a director doesnt mean that they can access the companies assets. I have used this ploy in case of bailiffs.....My limited company owns all my furniture and rents it back to me for a pepercorn rent. I have a contract to show anyone that calls....I DONT OWN ANYTHING Dave

Set up a limited company transfer or sell the assets to it, and sit back and smile.......... worth looking into other advantages would be that you could then become employees of the ltd company Dave

hmmmmmmm I hate online agreements....with a passion they could just print up any old rubbish and edit it and say you ticked it it does look ok though.....with ifs and buts what you have here is a multiple agreement of sorts you have PPI added and I cant see any reference to the ppi credit arrangement.......someone more knowledgeable will be along I'm sure try looking or asking here ...> http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements.html rgds dave

You think that is bad.........have a look at the MOnument one on p2 of this thread..:)....or in fact for ease I have copied it here Dave

Hi Lolipop Take heart..... I have had TWO credit cards with offers to write off the debt totalling about £8k MBNA are a belligerent bunch of ?????? they will keep on ad nauseun.... DONT speak to them on the phone, they'll just bully you ..get everything in writing. I owed / still owe £9k+, It got to the point with me where they offered to write off 70% !!! which I had to refuse because I still didnt have that sort of money. it got passed to a dca who has been trying to recoup it for 18 months, including offers of 60% off ?? I think that there is something desperately wrong with that agreement in fact i'm pretty sure there is dont be bullied, take a deep breath and do what you have to !! rgds Dave

for everyones delictation..... are they in trouble ??? rgds Dave

You need to see the original or a copy of the original.... I could send you a copy agreement....but you wouldnt pay ME any money would you ? These companies have a habit of making stuff up if they cant find or haven't got the originals. BE CAREFULL.......make sure what they send you is what you agreed to! other than that to comment properly we need to see it ....can you post a copy up ? Dave

Well thats a hard one...........thats why I put it in quotes. I accept that I had the money AND repaid it (all)....so an agreement of sorts must have been in effect. However in hindsight the agreement seems to have been invalid.......???? It was improperly executed and unenforceable due to lack of prescribed terms in fact due to lack of MOST terms....it didnt even have a heading or their name on it rgds Dave

Hi Patrick the agreement referred to had three different rates throughout its lifetime. in the schedule of charges I have made it clear when the rates change and by how much. I think it will be ok ! thanks for your input though....... best rgds Dave

OK.....in for a penny in for a pound Amex was third on my list of things to do......... just sent them this Dear Sir, I have been somewhat lax in my affairs of late and have let a few things slip by....... However with a new year comes a new resolve and it is my intention to tie up some loose ends and put to bed some issues. I have re-looked at our various communications and correspondences, and have decided to try to resolve my outstanding issues with your company. In looking at the agreement sent in response to my requests, it is obvious that it does not comply with the standards set out in the Consumer Credit Act. There are NO prescribed terms evident and NO reference to any terms and conditions elsewhere! The bottom part of the agreement is missing, and the terms and conditions supplied on many sheets of A4 appear to be set out in a later format and style. I do not believe that they are from the same document. However I would point out the Civil Procedure rules regarding pre action protocols especially CPR 31.16 which gives me the right to view any documents relied upon and especially practice direction 16 para 7.3 Quote “7.3 Where a claim is based upon a written agreement: (1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing” It is my belief that the agreement is improperly executed and is also unenforceable via s127(3) of the CCA1974, this being the case it has been like this from day1. Therefore any terms and conditions that you have or may have tried to impose would not have legal effect. You did not have the legal right to add interest to the account! I am making this claim for the return of interest wrongly and unlawfully taken. This adds up to £720.nn, I have decided to ask for a compensatory award of interest at your commercially compounded rates to go some way towards compensating me for the time value of the money while it was in your possession. I have used the rates that were in force during the period the “agreement” ran, these are 1.45% 1.4% and 1.2% per month. This adds up to a total interest of £2,000.nn giving a total claim of £2,720.nn please see attached schedule for details As this dispute has been ongoing for some time and you have had plenty of time to study the evidence and prepare to defend yourselves, I would expect a reply from your company within 10 days of receipt or I will start litigation without further notice. I hope to hear from you at your earliest opportunity ............................................. rgds to all Dave Yours sincerely

Hi Steven try here....>http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/132505-help-needed-re-natest.html Dave

you could also try looking here for ideas.............> http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/125119-ccas-post-april-2007-a.html?highlight=post+april+2007 rgds Dave

hmmmmmmmm they are likely to send you very little........and to be brutally honest as this was after april 07 you are not likely to get much joy try looking here...http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/125119-ccas-post-april-2007-a.html?highlight=post+april+2007 rgds Dave

Firstly to put your mind at ease....... moorcroft cannot take you to court, only the original creditor can do that, and I doubt that they are the creditor. If I kept all of moorcrofts threats I would have a pile nearly 6ft high...........hang on I did....and it is As you say ignoring it would be a bad thing, but certainly don't worry too much about it. moorcroft generally chase debts for the creditor, but dont own them. the best way to get rid of them is to send them a CCA request along with the one pound fee (postal order preferred) clearly state that this is to be used for the cca request and not to be paid off the alleged debt. They have a duty to supply the agreement if they are the original creditor or not....they will then pass it on to the creditor who will try to find it. All this takes time. This will at least buy some time while they ponder what to do next. when you get your agreement post it here and someone will advise on it. BUT.........as the agreement is probably post april 2007 you may have some difficulty with it, ie the unenforceability aspect has been removed by our weak kneed politicians rgds Dave

Hi guys....... new year new resolve................... just sent this to my old friends at barclayshark URGENT RESPONSE REQUIRED Letter before Action By Fax, Email and Royal Mail ref. nnnnnnn Dear Mr Barclayshark It has been some time since I last wrote, and again I have to admit to letting things slip a little....... However with a new year comes a new resolve. I have decided to tidy up some loose ends and put to bed some outstanding issues. Let me reiterate Your company (Barclays) has been chasing me for an alleged outstanding debt to Barclaycard (ex Monument), but strangely enough for the moment this seems to have abated? During an earlier case (regarding charges) I had asked to see my agreement. The “agreement” sent did not in any way shape or form comply to the standards set out in the Consumer Credit Act 1974. (please see enclosed copy agreement) After studying it and taking advice I have decided to query its legitimacy. As you can see from the enclosed agreement the prescribed terms are totally absent, in fact many of the required terms are also absent. It is my contention that 1 the agreement is improperly executed 2 the agreement is unenforceable via s127(3) This being so, it would also be evident that this has been the case from day1. As the two above facts are irrefutable any terms and conditions would not have had ANY effect. Your company ( Barclays ) has therefore been unlawfully charging me interest. I therefore claim the return of interest unlawfully taken and a realistic compensatory amount based on the time value of the money while it has been in your possession. I feel that the same interest rate that your company used would be fair. It would appear that the most common rate applied to my account was 1.527% per month I have used this rate calculated daily, and compounded it. The calculation used was charge =((1+rate)x days)x amount, If you know of a better way I would appreciate some insight. I believe the amount calculated is less rather than more, but is sufficiently accurate for my purposes. Please see attached schedule The amount of interest wrongly charged is £4040.69 and calculating compound interest on that amount = £10,623.69 giving a claim of £14,664.38 As this dispute has gone on for some time and you have already had plenty of warning and know of the case history and my intentions I would like a response to this within 10 days of receipt or I will start the litigation process. Please consider this a final letter before action. I hope to hear from you as soon a possible and at least within the above time-scale. Yours Sincerely davefirewalker For expediency you may reply by fax or email or otherwise by royal mail to the address above ....................................... rgds to all dave

The only ways to find out for sure is to either SAR them or do a request using the CIvil Procedure Rules http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html rgds Dave

Hi Steven The point I was trying to make was that the OP has admitted he applied online and that he had and has used the credit facility. the creditor has sent him an agreement which purports to be an agreement regulated by the CCA1974 as amended by 2004 electronic signing etc. It is my opinion and only my opinion that he would most likely fail unless he could show that the agreement did not contain the prescribed terms. An electronic signature is acceptable and they could most likely prove it. So that only leaves the agreement. Unless there is a fault with the prescribed terms I would put his chances of succeeding very low I for one would hope that the agreement is crap.....but I also live in the real world (sometimes anyway) best rgds Dave

Thanks to all, and to all "all the best for this new year" watch this space I'll do my best not to dissapoint Dave

The criminal offence aspect was repealed a while back and does not apply. What I think everyone on here is saying is that it can be proved that you had the credit and spent it, you have made repayments, and they have an agreement (of sorts). By servicing the contract you must have accepted that a contract exists, I think you would findit hard to get a judge to declare any sort of unenforceability / improper execution. put simply you could argue all the technical points you want but a judge would most likely find against you. I'm sorry for being so pragmatic,and it isnt a personal attack, but I just dont believe you stand a chance. I would love to be proved wrong though Dave