yes A Consumer is an individual, a Ltd. company is (can be ) a multiple entity Dave

unfortunately....YES just as business accounts differ in the way you can claim.....so do the card accounts you are no longer a "consumer" but a trader....check out the t&c's. you can however get a copy by doing an SAR and specifically asking for all agreements loans etc Dave

When you know how to play using the rules......... btw...well done Dave

Jax & DVD try this.......... edit if you wish Dear Sir/Madam Re: − Account/Reference Number nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn On the dd/mm/yyyy I requested a copy of the agreement relating to this account. The time specified by law for such a request is 12 working days. The twelve working days expired on dd/mm/yyyy. You then have a further month before committing an offence You have been in default under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 since dd/mm/yyyy, and since dd/mm/yyyy you have committed an offence. The only documentation that you have supplied is a copy of an application / agreement hybrid form, and some generic terms! That don't appear to be linked to that document. This does not meet with the requirements of the Act. The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself. The application form you have supplied does not contain the required prescribed terms, which are laid out in schedule 6 of the “Consumer Credit (agreements) Regulations 1983”. The minimum requirements of sch 6 of the 1983 regs are...... 1 Rate of any interest applied to the agreement 2 repayment schedule 3 Credit limit or statement that it will be determined or that there is no credit limit. These are noticeable by there absence, and it is my belief that the agreement is unenforceable via S65 and S127(3) of The Consumer Credit Act 1974. You will find that in several cases in the high courts especially (Wilson v Hurstanger para 9-11) it has been held that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document and not in any other document referred to. Whilst in default you should cease all collection activity and all reporting to the credit reference Agencies. If you have not already done so I now demand that you cease from processing and not to start any new processing of my data, as any further processing of my data would be inaccurate and contrary to the Data Protection Act 1998. I make this statutory demand under S10 of the Data Protection Act 1998. I now require that you either provide me with a copy of the correct document, or your written acknowledgement that you are unable to do so. I await your response Yours Sincerely

hi dvd..... try this Dear Sir/Madam Re: − Account/Reference Number nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn On the dd/mm/yyyy I requested a copy of the agreement relating to this account. The time specified by law for such a request is 12 working days. The twelve working days expired on dd/mm/yyyy. You then have a further month before committing an offence You have been in default under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 since dd/mm/yyyy, and since dd/mm/yyyy you have committed an offence. The only documentation that you have supplied is a copy of an application / agreement hybrid form, and some generic terms! That don't appear to be linked to that document. This does not meet with the requirements of the Act. The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself. The application form you have supplied does not contain the required prescribed terms, which are laid out in schedule 6 of the “Consumer Credit (agreements) Regulations 1983”. The minimum requirements of sch 6 of the 1983 regs are...... 1 Rate of any interest applied to the agreement 2 repayment sechedule 3 Credit limit or statement that it will be determined or that there is no credit limit. These are noticeable by there absence, and the agreement is unenforceable via S65 and S127(3) of The Consumer Credit Act 1974. You will find that in several cases in the high courts especially (Wilson v Hurstanger para 9-11) it has been held that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document and not in any other document referred to. Whilst in default you should cease all collection activity and all reporting to the credit reference Agencies. If you have not already done so I now demand that you cease from processing and not to start any new processing of my data, as any further processing of my data would be inaccurate and contrary to the DPA 1998. I make this statutory demand under S10 of the DPA 1998. I now require that you either provide me with a copy of the correct document, or your written acknowledgement that you are unable to do so. I await your response Yours Sincerely

Final letters went out to Morgan stanley Amex and Barclays today. they have seven days to respond favourably, or I will start the big guns. Equidebt on behalf of MBNA have been noticeable by their silence....their last letter 2-3 months ago was to inform me that the "debt" was up for a substantial reduction if I made an offer.........hmmmm capquest (on behalf of my son) have also gone EXTREMELY quiet.....the silence is deafening, nothing from them for over 6 months RBS havent been in touch either since they replied that they are refusing my claim for missold ppi. I still owe them a small fortune, and am not moving in any direction until the ppi is sorted. Just got my phone switched from BT to Tesco.......I originally had it with sky and had a dispute with them over DD payments and had been using carrier preselect (1280) to dial through BT. They had set wescot onto me but they had been quiet for 6 months or more. UNTIL I switched phone companies.........This must have set some alarm ringing somewhere and I'm getting calls from Response Credit Management, in regard to what I owe sky. Sky are being right A55HOLES I have tried to get them to negotiate but no-one seems to take responsibility for any action, all I get is templated letters that dont answer my queries....... RCM stand very little chance of getting a reply from me, or I might just play with them for a while, I am getting a little bored these days because no-one calls me anymore rgds to all Dave

Im sorry I dont have it.....(it costs about £950 ) but PT2537 might be able to help with a quote from it....maybe Dave

unless we can see the context prof Goode was explaining, then we have no idea of what he was talking about dave.

Try cca1974 s189 definitons “creditor” means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit agreement, includes the prospective creditor; Dave

Not likely....... Its only a CC with a DJ, for it to be made a precedent it would have to be a higher court however it could be used as a persuasive argument Dave

yes.......an application form can double as an agreement,.....IF.......all the regs are met yours may not meet the required standard, and you *may* be able to walk away. it depends on IF the terms were on the back, or if they were just a set of generic terms added to it ???? Dave

Hi........heating and hot water still off :( requires part which I am picking up today ( v expensive(ish) ). am still working on reply, and will post asap................ my only worry is that if the terms can be proved to be a part of the same doc...ie on the reverse then you may have trouble. see jax007's GF replies on this thread. that apart for the mo, if you can appear confident and forceful, they might just fold......maybe Dave

Send it again .... and ask if he got the first one.....it might have got lost/deleted by accident (yeah right) keep the pressure up Dave

yes They are in the t&c which may be on the reverse correct NO....the t&c's presented (which might be linked) contain the prescribed terms......ie your stuffed in that case they would win..........sorry but as in everything, it depends on the judge on the day and how lucky you feel Dave

Hi Peter Of course you are right in that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document. But there has been discussion here recently regarding S189 and definitions, add to that the fact that DJ's seem to live on an entirely different planet, and we might have a problem convincing them. I feel that most DJ's would see the terms (even on a seperate doc) and link the two. (see Un1boys thread) the only way to then get it looked at properly would be to try to appeal. Dave

yes thats what mine says......... might be in with a whisper of a chance then Dave

No... the lloyds one is 100% the GF one is a matter for discussion, if the terms can be linked to the agreement then you are stuffed. if the link can be broken / discredited or whatever, you "might" have a chance as there are no prescribed terms on the agreement and no reference to them either. Dave

I am trying to locate it as we type............hmm will find it tommorrow, but am almost sure it only says "not owned by" Dave

your call personally I would imagine a judge might well be inclined to judge against you. look at un1boys thread.....they admitted to no docs and still won (for the time being) its down to how lucky you get, and my personal opinion is that all the judges and creditors have had a meeting and discussed those nasty little low life debtors and what they are doing to the banking industry. I think you would lose......but as I said your call Dave

oh all right.... I'll start working on it ...again Dave

Yes the prescribed terms are there. if they produce that doc in full then you are screwed Dave

The lloyds one makes SPECIFIC mention to terms overleaf The GF doesnt mentio terms at all. in wilson v hurstanger it was stated that ALL the terms should be within the signature document. there is some discussion as to references to terms elswhere that become part of the document. but in this cas I wouldnt think so. the GF terms seem very generic and are probably not contempary with the agreement Dave

Well here lies a tale......... although I am the registered keeper of the vehicle, I am not the legal owner and never have been. it was originally bought for me by my wife, then she transferred it to our limited company as an asset (not a company vehicle) when I say our company please dont get the wrong idea that we are rolling in it, nothing could be further from the truth. I use a limited company as a means to an end. So I was insured and traveling in a vehicle not belonging to me which had no insurance whats the position ??? Dave

yeah cmon sparkie, spill the beans unless its really bad news then in that case I DON'T want to know heres hoping for good news Dave

Thinking about it ....girlfriend would probably be right Dave