Jamess23
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Everything posted by Jamess23
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Well common sense has prevailed. The debt management team on viewing my appeal have decided to cancel the debt and pay back any monies already taken. :whoo: My concern is the amount of tax payers money that has been wasted on something that should not have got so far and should not have taken so long to rectify. It must have cost more than the original erroneous debt to resolve. The JC manager had the right idea. 'This is obviously a mistake I 'll get it sorted out for you by tomorrow' That man is a credit to the DWP and I hope he is rewarded for his common sense and down to earth attitude. I was advised by MP's assistant that I could complain at the length of time it has taken but as (miraculously) I haven't lost any money I will leave it up to DM and the DWP to see if they can't improve the system. My MP is going to mention the wider points of this and I have given the DWP enough suggestions for investigation, so I think I will step back now, my work is done.
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I sent my appeal letter last week explaining that I wasn't signing on, did no jobs and did not even live in the area during the period concerned and my MP's assistant emailed a copy to DM at Telford to make sure they receive the info. These powerful life affecting frustrations can push you to the edge and then you either step back and philosophise or you step over. I ain't gonna step over no edge, nothing or nobody is worth that so my life may be harder because of this but my soul and my freedom is still mine and nobody is gonna take that away from me. Thanks for the chat. I would donate to this site but finances are tight and the NSPCC & RSPB will be the first back on my list when all this is sorted. I will keep you up to date on what happens though
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Yes it's sods law isn't it? The guys like me who are on your side are the ones that get punished. The moody ar*****es you encounter get away with it because they don't care. I'm sure there are many of your colleagues who don't deserve to get the hassle they do. I have said those very words when appealing to the good nature of DM & the JC - I do not deserve this! It feels so much worse when you are being as accomadating as you can and you still get clobbered. It is soul destroying but I will carry on doing my best and it will not changed my easy going and friendly nature because that is how I am and that is why supervisors and good DWP employees should be vigilant and rather than help make peoples lives a misery. Challenge the ones who don't do enough rather than go for the innocents like me. One thing that does stand out and could be improved immediately is the willingness to help. Nobody said to me - Don't worry it does seem like there is a problem just send a letter to......with your reasons why you think you are not liable and we will look into it. All I got was - well there is a note on file...(so you must be liable) It wasn't until my MP got involved that I got a reasonable answer. But hey we're going over old ground now. I am hoping that common sense prevails and this thing will be overturned shortly. I can see from your answers that most people are up against a powerful institution and the answers are full of jeopardy. I don't envy you at all.
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Woah! I did open up last night and I hadn't been drinking! Must have been tired and emotional. Not being religious I don't believe in 'an eye for and eye' - as many have said before - that way we would end up with a world full of blind people. We shouldn't lower ourselves to their level. Cock up or not Antone this should not have been allowed to get this far. Customer care training (maybe equality and diversity having taught that myself in an earlier life) and a system where these 'errors' are picked up before they cause financial and psychological harm would be the common sense approach. People are human Antone yes, including those like me who find themselves suddenly a little older and on the scrapheap a couple of years earlier than we would like. I have paid my dues to society in both time and money. I am a fully paid up member of society and have a fully paid up state pension. A little respect from those whose job I have partly paid for would not go amiss.
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Hi there, Thank you so much for being honest. Sometimes you do feel like you are going mad or being paranoid but now I can feel a little more human again. One of the reasons I said they were ungrateful is because I have been so friendly and approachable with them. Gone that extra mile to please. Having to answer questions from a panel of doctors and social workers at the age of 14-16 on the health of your mother and your answers being the difference between her coming home or staying in hospital for more 'treatment' makes you very good at co-operating with authority figures. Not that I did not want to co-operate I did. So I feel I have been kicked in the teeth by people I thought of as friends. It is very hard and damaging psychologically to accept that and very irresponsible of whoever has done this. When you know that you are innocent and all your 'friends' are doing is blaming you it is horrible. At these times I always think of Rudyard Kipling's 'IF' and try to keep my head but I feel angry with them and this country for making my life difficult when all I want to do is help. I recently had to cancel my £2.00 monthly donation to the NSPCC and RSPB because this has made my finances so difficult. This is why before any decision is made they should at least confide in the person who is affected. I am so disappointed with them. But thank you again for being honest I very much appreciate that.
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And finally....I must say as a man who has worked hard from the age of 16 ( after being a young carer from the age of 8 and saving this country thousands) Then for over 35 years after paying thousands in tax and NI,to find myself being treated like this is nothing short of criminal. The ingratitude of people working in the DWP is both humiliating and unworthy of of our support and co-operation and sadly as I get closer to my seventh decade I find myself despising the country I have worked so hard for and grew up in. But hey:whoo: tomorrow's another day and you can't keep a good man down. So have fun and don't let the ba****ds grind you down. Up the revolution:-)
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Well I certainly was not 'of no fixed abode' and can prove it. I have requested copies of/ details the giro's but so far I have received nothing. It has been suggested that I not ask yet for SAR info as when they get my appeal letter they will do that anyway. I am certain that no giro's exist but you begin to doubt whether the DWP will acquiesce and admit the error or just keep reiterating (rather like your opinion regarding debts that don't exist) that the overpayment is genuine. However we shall see.
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Hi Brigadier, Just one more thing before I go and sort this thing out. One bit of information I forgot to share was that according to DM the payments were made by 3 giros of £52.20( less 18.64.) Now this means I cannot go to my bank statements and say - see I did not receive any JSA at that time. Now that seems fishy to me, as my preference is for BACS payments. I wonder when giro's were phased out? Mid 2006 maybe? How would you have tackled that information in a tribunal situation Brig, and how would the judge see that do you think?
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Ok! Well that's it I think. Got it off my chest off to sort the thing out now. Have fun:-)
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Apologies for being direct but 'tarring with the same brush' is catching I'm afraid. I am playing devil's advocate so please do not take it personally and thanks for clearing my misunderstanding up.
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Oh I agree! So what you are saying is I was signing on in Jan 2006 and that I am lying about the fact that this is a made up debt because I can assure you I am not. I have documents and papers on file to show that I was living over 50 miles away from Hull when this JSA and overpayment was supposed to have taken place. People are not perfect - who would have thought that MP's would alter their expenses - did they worry about going to prison or losing their jobs. What about these DWP employees who have been arrested and imprisoned for fraud. Criminals take chances stealing pennies. I am sure that the whole of the DWP is not made up of angels and little darlings who never lie or deceive, I thought I was naive!
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That's fine - off to sort this out now - have fun:-)
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The rest of the quote reads (Fraud happens... 'Even if you have not lost money, you may still have experienced fraud'. If you take that to fruition - it doesn't matter if the perpetrator does not benefit financially - they have still committed fraud.
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Yes but the DWP know my new address as I am sadly still signing on. Blimey talk about being above the law - didn't realise the UK was so close to third world morals and standards. Seems a bit hypocritical to criticise Mugabe and others if that is the case.
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Yes I would have thought that myself. Maybe they can enter details on a general 'footprint' or use an old employees 'footprint'. Could even be someone who has left, who had a grudge and this was their legacy, but hey let's not get too creative. Saying that the emplyees at the DWP can be malicious is like saying 'Oh he/she never lies! It can't be true!
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I have an email dated 22/08/2013 that says: The abandonment rules have been considered in this case, but as six years have not elapsed (until 28/12/13) recovery can continue also the fact that no papers are held does not specifically make a difference to the recovery process. So it does appear that there is still a six year abandonment deadline. This is where I feel the essence of a fraud comes from. They know that either a debt does not exist or that it is out of time and they still take money from peoples accounts. 'Fraud happens when somebody lies, or deceives you in order to cause harm, usually by costing you money.’ Surely this whole business is a deceit.
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Yes I agree that a log could be used to chase a debt but surely it should be more than '£138.04 owed did job but didn't tell us.' The employee who recorded this should surely note the job done, where and when and paperwork should not be destroyed until after the six year deadline which is what the email from the DM dept stated in the reply to my MP's assistant. The email said 'The abandonment rules have been considered in this case, but as six years have not elapsed (28/12/13) recovery can continue also the fact that no papers are held does not specifically make a difference to the recovery programme. As I said in my last reply - this mandate does seem to be a license to take money that is not due.
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Yes I agree that a log could be used to chase a debt but surely it should be more than '£138.04 owed did job but didn't tell us.' The employee who recorded this should surely note the job done, where and when and paperwork should not be destroyed until after the six year deadline which is what the email from the DM dept stated in the reply to my MP's assistant. The email said 'The abandonment rules have been considered in this case, but as six years have not elapsed (28/12/13) recovery can continue also the fact that no papers are held does not specifically make a difference to the recovery programme. As I said in my last reply - this mandate does seem to be a license to take money that is not due.
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I suppose I am playing devil's advocate here but it does seem strange that a debt that they cannot show paperwork for and is definitely incorrect can be wholly unintentional. This new mandate they have is a license to rake in money that is not owed. However maybe a few complaints to MP's may make the system a little fairer.
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Can do - I thought that 'Are the DWP committing Fraud?' a more thought provoking tag so yes please.
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You're right I just wanted a more punchy headline. Thanks
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Thanks - I did want a new thread and discussion to see if any body had a similar problem but I may be one of the rare few who can prove that the debt is bogus. How many others are either too scared to challenge or too confused after such a long passage of time to put together a good case. I will not be letting it go once the debt is reversed. All this 'can't get your paperwork' and 'it was in the wrong queue' is just a smoke screen for something a little more serious. I have proof that I was living over 50 miles away from Hull at that time. I have bills and documents to prove it and a new telephone line was installed in the Halsham property on 2nd March 2006 of which I have the paperwork in my files. They will have to provide details of the job I was supposed to have done. You can't just put a job was done without details of where and when not just when. Mind you even if they had details of a job I was supposed to have done it is none of their business as I wasn't signing on. So I have a good sound case against these people at the DWP. Exciting times ahead.
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Yes I do. Posted 22/08/13. It was the debt that was entered for a period when I wasn't signing on (Jan06-Feb06). You commented on the fact that they had sent the letter to the wrong address and hopefully they are about to reverse it. There must have been an entry made maliciously to bring up this debt. I have good recollection of this period because I was doing a lot of travelling during 2006 (living off the sale of my house) and did no work from Nov 2005 to August 2006. I certainly did not sign on during that period because I was living in Norton, East Riding which is not in the Hull catchment area where the request for overpayment originated from. I moved to Halsham near Hull in March 2006. So there was no way I could have signed on in Hull at that time. So I can only assume that having confirmed that the debt is on the system in my name it has been put there fraudulently hence the fraud report.
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It occurred to me during my battle with Debt Management that by taking money for a debt that does not exist they are actually defrauding us of monies we are entitled to. I went into my local police station to moot this and was given the Action Fraud leaflet. According to this leaflet: 'Fraud happens when someone lies, or deceives you in order to cause harm, usually by costing you money.' So I rang the National Benefits Fraud Hotline and made a complaint against the jobcentre concerned. The CSA asked some quite personal details (my description basically) before taking details of the crime itself and then saying how seriously they would takes this?! However as with the honour of thieves they are protecting their own and when I rang to give more information a week or so later I was told to contact the jobcentre manager. Had the roles been reversed they would have been all over me like rats on rotting meat but hey ho as with many government departments they are obviously above the law and can do what they like. I will be putting this to my MP and asking the manager of the fraud office whether they think this just or whether they can justify such an immoral attitude, excusing their own whilst we suffer at the hands of pathologically cynical and inhuman civil servants who seem to take pleasure in making other peoples lives a misery. I think there needs to be a debate as to the ethics of authorities taking money when there is obviously not any money owed. These debts should be frozen until the appeal has been decided. Or not even started until you have made an appeal. Otherwise instead of being innocent until proved guilty, you are guilty until (in most cases) proved guilty (even though you are innocent). Most third world dictators would be proud of that - well, done DWP.
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Looks like it! This afternoon I was informed by my MP's assistant that they just want a letter reiterating the reasons I am appealing the decision. They reckon that as the case was 'put incorrectly in a work queue' (DWP speak) and 'at that time they did not realise it wasn't working properly'! (this is in 2007 - are you keeping up?) I should get the debt reversed as they would not be able to find the letters and details that would be needed. Believe that you'd believe anything! I won't count my chickens quite yet though. So as always they are right it is their system that went wrong. Of course they are indicating that I am lying by reversing it on a technicality but hey that's for another day and maybe another complaint. Thanks for getting back.
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