I honestly have not left anything out, although I did not attend the actual court hearings so whether anything that was discussed there was left out I have no idea. My guess is that it was a fair amount of money over an even longer amount of time and they just saw him as someone that purposefully had done it. He doesn't mind really, he was just thankful that it didn't come to what we were fearing. Now we just have to struggle to pay everything back, but we are getting by just. And the Doctors/Nurses have finally got their act together and realized that he can't have appointments before 4pm, they're now taking care of his legs more seriously. He seems to be attending appointments to have new bandages and such every other day.

Hi everyone, sorry to keep you all waiting with any updates. Well thankfully, he did not go to prison, however he did get a fine, a suspended sentence for 2 years (for a 12 week sentence) and a curfew with a tag for 3 months between the times of 10am and 4pm, which is awkward since his legs have gotten worse recently and is in need of seeing the nurse, and the doctors/nurses won't come out, we did get district nurses over and they said to make an appointment, which we tried to do but none were available and they were not going to come out, which is a major pain. Despite that I am over the moon that he didn't get sent to prison. I'd like to thank all of you for the advice given and I hope mine and my dad's situation is helpful to anyone else.

It's just so hard, I've now been put on anti-depressants because of this and because of other situations, like I don't feel like I dealt with mum's death very well. I have good days and bad days, good days I feel a bit more positive of the situation and all my friends help, everyone we've spoken to feels that prison is unlikely, even you guys have said so. But it's convincing my mind that things will be alright, on bad days it just goes round and round in my head "what if everyone is wrong?" "what will I do if dad does go?" because he really won't handle it well, even for a short time. He's mentioned to me before, and mentioned to the probation officer, that life situations have made him feel like he wanted to take his own life, and what stops him is myself and my brother, this is something that scares me too. Then images of having to move again, dad being separated from us when he needs his family around him, he doesn't have a social life, he never goes out anywhere so most of the time he just has us. I fear things would spiral out of control.

Update: The other day myself and my dad went to see the probation officer. I think it went well - we talked in depth about finances, family issues etc...in the end she said to dad that because of no prior convictions there's not a lot of options they have in regards to punishment, however she didn't rule out prison, but mentioned about a possible curfew and tagging, and a fine. When she asked dad about prison he mentioned that it might finish him off in regards to his mental state, but is fully compliant with any other punishment going. They also know that it would mean the council would have to re-house us if he is sent down. Although it was a good meeting I still fear the worst, I think that's due to my anxiety and depression, one thing that was embarrassing was that I couldn't keep from crying in front of her, I tried to control it but it just overwhelmed me.

I see, thank you for clearing that up. I think the reason why we tend to think the worst is because we've had other things happen to us that have just seemed like something out of a TV drama so we sort of expect worst case scenario. @seanamarts thank you, I think that would be the case as well, just hope that if the fine is big they won't want it all at once!

Hello everyone I have an update. Well as expected he was unfortunately found guilty, because he simply didn't have the proof to show that the man he spoke to all those years ago existed, all he had was an old address but since he and his wife had died and my father didn't know his children or where they are now, it just wasn't enough. Oh and it wasn't actually taken to crown court, they decided to have it at magistrates instead, not sure why they changed their minds on that but they did. They did not sentence him right away because "It would not be conducive" I'm wondering what they mean by that, I'm guessing a good sign? The solicitor still maintains that a custodial sentence is unlikely because of his ill health, no prior convictions or gotten in any other trouble, and the fact that the council tax side is currently being consistently paid each month, that he has said on more than one occasion he fully intends to pay everything back, and if he did go to prison all his benefits would be stopped and therefore they would not get paid anything, and it seems like they do just want their money back. Before he goes back to court for sentencing on March 1st, he has to see a probation officer to go through medical records, what money he has coming in and what other sort of debts - all needs to be seen, and to just check out my Dad's character, apparently they can advice judges on what sort of sentence would be best. I can't help but think that although everyone says prison isn't likely, I'm really hoping that it doesn't happen, he really isn't a well man and he'd be beside himself if he were taken from his home, and so will we, it also wouldn't make any sense for them to do that other than to make an example, which would be cutting off their nose to spite their face in a way. Did you know it costs £40,000 A WEEK to send someone to prison? Plus he'd need taking care of due to his medication and would need his bandages on his legs every day. I know they can't take his family into consideration since we're all adults, but for us it would also mean having to quickly find a new home since it's dad that gets housing. So we'd all be effected, in more ways than one.

Merry Christmas everyone. Dad went to court a few days ago, they were very nice to him and accomodating to his needs. After talking it through with our solicitor he pleaded not guilty. Which means that it does have to go to Crown Court but not because they feel its that serious, apparently they have to if you plead not guilty; it's just procedure. It was advised because the solicitor feels that it was done by mistake. I have calmed down a lot, I hope that the anxiety doesn't flare up again. But every one of our friends including our solicitor says that a prison sentence is highly unlikely, what with his mitigating circumstances and the fact that we're paying it back already. My friend also pointed out that he's not actually being done for fraud but for possible dishonesty, I didn't know there was a difference, but apparently it's not as bad as the former, still not great, but if anyone can explain the difference? He goes back to court on Febuary 4th. I'll keep you posted!

Sorry I didn't reply about this, totally forgot! Well it was a total waste of time, Dad came home and said he wasn't even seen, they were "too busy" to see him that day, he said everyone was running around trying to get other things done, including his solicitor, the judges and clerks were late to court too. It was a farce basically, so they gave Dad a bail slip and told him to come back on the 21st, absolute joke!

Thank you. It's only been in the past couple of days I've gotten my anxiety under control, it's still quite scary and I think on the day my nerves might get the better of me but I gotta stay strong for my Dad!

Just an update - we saw our solicitor and it seemed to go well. He said what everyone else I've spoken to has said - prison is unlikely but he doesn't want to commit to anything. But because of mitigating circumstances it is unlikely. I've heard the Judges where I'm from are quite fair. He also said that the monthly repayments we previously agreed on are far too high and will try to get a lower amount, because it is hard to live off the rest of the money we have coming in. All of the paperwork was taken and is being looked through, we will be expecting to hear from him soon before court, and on the day will be represented by someone.

Thank you - it's so hard though, my anxiety has sky rocketed I even thought I did something wrong, when my friend came over tonight and had a look at my paper work she said I was totally fine and haven't done anything wrong at all, it's just me overthinking things because of my father's troubles. I'm happy we now have a solicitor, but I'm still not eating or sleeping right. It's hard to tell your brain to shut up when you're so wound up and you just feel like crying all the time =(

From what I understand it, it's council tax and housing. But we've already arranged with the council tax people to pay them back a certain amount each month, which we've already started, we made the first payment a couple of days ago.

Okay thanks for all your advice. I had my accountant friend come over this evening, and it's actually no where near as bad as I thought, when I did the jobs last year I was only in CA not IS, that was after (as I didn't know I could claim it) so I'm actually alright there after all, PHEW! I think the reason I got into such an awful panic is because my dad, on another thread I made, is in trouble. And I have been getting major anxiety attacks because of it, where my brain tells me "arghhh you did this wrong and that wrong and what if this what if that" so I was looking into things too closely and not thinking straight when my brain can't process the information. My friend said I'm absolutely fine. And that it was infact declared after all. However, now that I do have IS, any work I do I must declare and will declare to them, if it's over the amount allowed. I'm sorry I was in such a state of confusion and wasting your time, due to other situations going on my brain isn't firing on all cylinders it seems. I need to see a doctor.

I'm sorry I mean that I looked up the amount I was allowed to be paid as I wasn't told that. But I swear to you I honestly didn't know that work had to be declared paid or unpaid.

Hi. I've never claimed housing or anything else while on CA and IS. I was told if I worked under 16 hours and under a certain limit of money that I didn't need to declare, my god don't tell I did have to? I seriously only took the advice of the person at the Job Centre, I'm also confused because their payslips are confusing, they're saying they paid me so much when I do not remember ever getting that much out of them, usually a day of work with them is £55, the payslips write down the rate of pay for the hours (usually 7.5) and somehow makeout that I deserve over £200, but I think that averages out over a month if I work more than one day, so I may well be within my rights to earn it, but I'm not 100% sure and started to panic a lot.

Hi there I hope you can help me. Last year sometime (I don't know the dates off the top of my head) I went on to carer's allowance from JSA to help my dad. (This year I also discovered I could apply for IS so I did and they also said I could still work as long as it was kept under the amount/hours) I looked up that I could work 16 hours a week and also make sure I don't earn above £95-£100 (different sites say differently! And they didn't confirm how much when I applied either) Around September last year I took on some agency work, everything was fine as long as I kept it under the amount I needed to and I worked below 16hrs. But then it got to December, the agency gave me more work, and I took it. It was over 16 hours and over the amount I should be paid, I FOOLISHLY have only realized that it wasn't declared! And this is me realizing now a year bloody later and I want to tell them but I'm so afraid they'll take legal action against me, but at the same time will be worse off if I don't, will they take court action against me? I can't handle it right now because my Dad is having some serious issues, which I suppose is what made me double check because I thought everything was fine, but then for some stupid reason I forgot I did that much work and I am freaking out right now. One thing I'm sure of, we're talking about money in it's hundreds and not thousands at least. But I feel so stupid that I didn't declare it, if I owe money I will pay it back, I'm happy I've now noticed it but will they still have me for benefit fraud? =(

I will keep you guys posted and thank you for the advice so far =)

well, thanks to a friend of mine, who contacted a local solicitor (I was having no luck and she said she'd help, managed to find something in 2 minutes!) they do legal aid and deal with fraud cases and phoned back the same evening, didn't even have a chance to get home and tell dad they just rang him out of the blue lol They're coming by on Monday to help, this has made me very happy because we have help now, someone to represent us who knows their stuff. We're not out of the woods yet but I am relieved that we have help now =) I have talked to Dad about his Depression, he says he wants to get this over with then deal with it, which I suppose I have to respect, but it is something we will be dealing with ASAP.

So Dad tried to phone the council but the particular department had shut at around 4pm so we will try again in the morning. Meanwhile CAB haven't been hugely helpful, they never rang back after the first few talks and all that was was she wanted to know what the whole wodge of paperwork was (proof/evidence basically, reems of paper detailing the different situations where dad wrote down things he should not have etc...) I've looked on Yell.com, and found a law firm that deals with fraud and they take legal aid. When this all first started CAB had put us on to [Firm 1] solicitors they said they took legal aid, when Dad rang them they said they don't do that anymore so that was unhelpful, but I've come across [Firm 2] who seem to allow that. I've been doing the worst thing for my mental state, reading up other people's horror stories on here involving Benefit Fraud and them going to prison for even less then what Dad owes, I feel terrible =(

Hi there, well I think the confusion could be attributed to stress and depression and he does tend to have mood swings (although never violent) it's just as a family we've been through so much, not including his turbulant childhood. But I have tried to tell him to see a Doctor about it, he doesn't even like seeing the nurse on a regular basis and gets out of it anyway he knows how, so it can be difficult. Anyway, not much news yet, phoned C.A.B and the woman on the other end said the court proceedings could be to do with a separate council tax benefit as opposed to council tax (which was what the letter was about agreeing to pay it back without hassle) this has confused us even more! She has to keep going and talking to her superior and phoning back. We're also going to phone the council, which Dad was scared to do but I explained it has to be done. He's pretty bad when it comes to confrontation =(

Hi all, I'm new here so forgive me if I don't have the right forum area, I did try to look around for the appropriate one. It's also long and maybe complicated. this is on behalf of my father. He is in trouble with our local council for benefit fraud of £12k, I know this is not looked upon with much sympathy but let me explain. Years ago in the 80's before we moved to where we are now and when I was a baby my dad had a back injury at work and from then on could no longer work due to this injury which has gotten worse over time. He claimed a benefit (forgive me I don't remember the name) and at the time he was advised by the person that "he did not need to worry about declaring it because it would go on record" My father believed this man and then when we moved here from Watford, claimed other benefits. Coming to this year, my dad's health is much worse, he is in his 60's, has diabetes which has ruined his legs, his back has slipped disks and has a hiatus hernia, plus depression (although not diagnosed by a doctor) due to other awful family events such as my mother dying in 2010. I also believe he may have some mental issues but again, won't go to any "quacks" because his common sense and confusion has gotten worse over the years. He claims housing, council tax and is on disability (I receive carer's and income support to top that up so I am a paid carer for him) and received a pension along with the one he was getting for some years. Admittedly we were all led to believe that we were alright because of the advise that dad was given and we just assumed they knew all about it. when dad would fill out forms he would not mention the 80's benefit he was still getting, I think the confusion came when he didn't realize it was an early pension, and I didn't know how to system worked, I just believed what my dad believed. The council can only go back to 2000, dad was interviewed under caution in September this year, which was a shock as we did not expect it. Dad did not know he had done anything wrong, he realized he infact did and admitted so, and then explained how he intended to pay every single penny back. We had our housing stopped for a while but then was half reinstated so that the landlord could be paid (Something I'll get to in a moment) We also got in contact with the Citizen's Advice. Dad then gets a letter from the council after some back and forth with an agreed price of how much to pay back each month a nd is stated in the letter as long as the payments are kept up and on time they will not proceed further, which was a great relief. And would be paid off by July next year. Clearly we were mistaken, we then get a huge amount of paperwork from the council, with a letter of 8 summons to court for the 7th of December. When we saw this we simply fell apart, we thought that as long as we paid it all back that Dad would not go to prison, and although it only says prison is one of the punishments, that it could just be more money that needs to be paid back as a charge, myself and my father are terrified that he will go to prison for this and he simply will not last, as I have explained his mental state and physical state will not cope. Right now personally my mental state is taking a beating, I am not eating or sleeping right, this weekend has been a nightmare. My Dad is going to phone the council a little later to get a clearer picture of what they mean by this, and then also phone Citizen's Advice again. As stated above he intends on paying everything back, and we're just confused about the letter because we thought we arranged to pay everything back without any threats of prison. Dad now knows that what he did was wrong albeit a mistake due to listening to bad advice years ago, and clearly not having much knowledge on how the system works. For my whole life we have never been rich, we have always been struggling with payments of bills so I can tell you that even now we are not coping very well especially after this. My brother who still lives with us managed to get a job (which we did declare) and it is myself and him that are having to help a great deal with the money. Going back to our landlord, when our housing was reinstated the council didn't tell us and nor did our landlord so when we were paying all of the rent which was a stressful situation, turns out our landlord was also claiming the housing and didn't bother to tell us , so we were paying him the full amount of rent when we didn't need to. So we've stopped that, although the landlord has not gotten back to us about that situation... But I just won't know what to do if my dad goes to prison, I am terrified.