All very slowly improving, but you don't recover from something that serious when you're 82! Thanks for asking, I appreciate it!

Dear Sir, Thank you for your letter dated dd/mm/yyyy the contents of which are noted but not accepted. I write to inform you that no further correspondence will be entered into on my part until I am in receipt of a signed copy of my agreement. If you write, I will not respond until you comply with my request. Yours faithfully, That should do it! They may and probably will keep writing to you, but you've stated quite clearly you won't respond.

True in theory, but in reality this is not rigorously enforced by some councils. Others with in-house bailiffs have different policies altogether. It will depend which authority the OP is dealing with.

For a start the fees are unlawful. He cannot charge the £24.50 and a levy fee in one visit. Well done for not letting him in. My advice is always the same in this situation. E-mail or write a letter to the Head of Revenues at your council outlining your complaint and asking them to recall the debt from the bailiffs as they are acting unlawfully. Remind them of their "vicarious liability" this just means they are equally culpable with the bailiffs for the bailiffs actions as the bailiffs are acting on behalf of the council. Normally what happens then is s/he refuses to take it back and sticks up for the bailiffs. This is good! Next E-mail and write to the CEO saying you've contacted the Head of Revenues and as he appears not to know the law and is laying the council open to litigation you had no choice but to contact him/her directly. Outline the same complaint again emphasising the vicarious liability and the fact that the bailiff's illegal charges and notice have laid the council open to litigation. If necessary I can give you a quote from the National Standards for Enforcement Agents, but just making him aware that you know about them is likely to achieve something. Ask him to intervene, apologise for wasting his time, but you had no choice as his Head of Revenues refused to act, in fact supported the bailiff's actions and fees when they are clearly illegal and ask him to recall the debt from the bailiffs and outline your repayment proposal to him.

Hi Ian, To be fair Scott pointed out the list of creditors, I merely repeated it! I'm always happy to pinch his praise though lol! As regards Nationwide, could you not send the June payment now stating it is only late as you've only just received their letter, then send July one in good time for the 4th. Ideally set up standing orders (not Direct Debits) with them so it all becomes automatic. It sounds like you've made a great start - well done. Isn't it a good feeling to be back in control again?

My suggestion would be to sit it out and wait for them to contact you. In the meantime spend 3 x £2 and get copies of all your credit reports to see what is on them, if anything. In order to close your accounts the banks must have defaulted you and it would be good for you to have this information. A DCA is very unlikely ever to make you bankrupt. If they did, it would certainly not be straightaway. They'd track you down, and then you go through the process of checking they have the legal right to collect the debt, then arranging a repayment plan. IF they do find you within the next 6 years, then it would be worth your while coming to an agreement if you are wanting to join a professino such as law where you cannot afford to be made bankrupt.

It will be interesting to see what position you are in after a court order, but with that level of debt and so little income, I'd be very surprised if the CAB didn't encourage you to think about bankruptcy. It is designed pretty much exactly for this sort of situation, it would get rid of your debts and give you the fresh start I suspect you need.

Hi, I'm almost in agreement with Matt. However, you have broken an unwritten rule - never speak to a DCA, always get everything in writing for the avoidance of doubt. Before you SAR I'd e-mail or write a letter asking for a statement of account and basically asking them to prove that is the amount you genuinely owe as you think it is too high. If they reply as they have on the phone, then you've covered yourself and you sit and wait till they do what they've said and pay nothing. If they refuse then complain. The one I'm a bit concerned about is the Council Tax. Do you recall exactly how long ago this was and how much the Liability Order was for? Do you still live in the same area? Depending on your answers to these, you may need to address that one as it could potentially be very serious. It is definitely still a priority debt. However, it is unusual for a CT debt to go so long without any contact about you owing it - is there a reason as to why this might be?

I would definitely wait for them to contact you, but I would expect them to at some point in the next few years. What happens is your car has -eg- £5000 outstanding on it at time of repossession. They sell it through the auctions at a low price, say £3500, leaving you still owing £1500 on the car which they can pursue. This is not my advice but I had one of these, ignored everything that was sent and it disappeared eventually - that was about ten years ago now! Definitely not good debt advice, but I was into debt avoidance in a big way at that stage. Realistically you can expect it to reappear at some stage, make sure you know and keep a record of when it first went into default as the 6 years start ticking then for SB. Some are quick off the mark to pursue, others extremely slow.

Hi Ian, I'm definitely with Scottbhoy on this one. They actually have no legal right to even ask for your IE sheet, only a judge can demand it, but if you want to come to a solution, then my opinion is to send it. Others on here disagree strongly. As regards Santander I believe the best approach is to start off nicely as you have. If they play awkward, then so do you. They have your IE which you have voluntarily supplied. They have I would imagine a list of your creditors set out as Scottbhoy suggested hopefully - no harm in supplying that and amounts so they can see it is worked out fairly. If they haven't had this, I would send this, but nothing else and say this is their final chance to receive this offer, otherwise you have to assume they are deliberately being obstructive in your efforts to repay your debt and you will from now on pay a token payment of £1 per month. It is then up to them what they do. If it were to go to court, my belief is that as long as you can demonstrate you made every effort to agree a sensible repayment plan with them you will not be penalised.

Good afternoon Vic - no you can't! I'd give everyone everything back and the country would go bust!

Good! That's what the site's all about.

Just to add, as long as you have paid everything on the LO, the bailiffs cannot, whatever they say, use the same LO to collect their fees.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?291468-Fighting-back-with-CPUTR-2008.... There you go Peter. I did post a balanced post earlier, but it has vanished! Mods? What I basically said was that some people (like me and you) like to go into detail and read the legislation and all we can find about it; Others are happy to know that at the moment it scares DCA's away and don't mind why. This is fair enough in my opinion at the moment. However, as time goes on, and case law builds up, the detail will become increasingly important in my opinion. As I see it, and I don't believe this is giving arguments to DCA's, the reason it is so powerful at the moment is that nobody wants to be one of the first few test cases. I wold also caution, and I suspect P1 would agree with me on this, not to rely entirely on CPUTR 2008. There is plenty of other, already proven legislation, that will see off a DCA. There's also other underused legislation such as the EU Directives that Victoria Siempre and I keep banging on about which is a powerful piece of legislation that many seem to ignore.

Hi Peter, Indeed the sanctions are embodied in the Act itself. Here is a link to the CPUTR 2008 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2008/9780110811574/contents A 5 minute read at most! Read Part 2, then Part 3 s8-12, finally Part 3 s13 states: Penalty for offences 13. A person guilty of an offence under regulation 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12 shall be liable— (a)on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum; or (b)on conviction on indictment, to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or both. as usual with legislation s13 relates to s8-12, s8-12 relate to Pt 2. Hope this clarifies things. To my knowledge, similar to the newish EU Regulations which are also fairly powerful at the moment, it has not been tested in court and I think (it is only think) I remember reading that a private individual cannot take a company to court under this, but the FOS or OFT can and it is this that I believe is making the DCA's wary.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's not what I'm saying. They cannot issue you with a default for the same debt every six months. They can issue one default for one debt and that is it. Once in default it is in default. They can't put it into default again 6 months down the line because it's already in default. The way I read what you've put they're threatening to default you. If they do default you, they are obliged under law to issue you with a Default Notice. You wouldn't miss this as it would be headed NOTICE OF DEFAULT and then tell you very clearly that you have been deaulted, not you may be defaulted which they seem to be saying at the moment. If in doubt either post up the actual letters they're sending you removing all personal details first, or look at your CRF and see if they have registered any defaults on there.

Yes. What happens is this. They expect the full payment originally agreed every month. As long as you pay the full amount your Credit Reference Agency your monthly record on your credit file will show 0 (meaning 0 full payments missed). If you then make a reduced payment, or no payment it will show 1 (1 full payment missed). The next month if you still make a reduced payment, or no payment it will show 2 (2 full payments missed). If this continues for six months your credit record will show 0's for the full payments, then 1,2,3,4,5,6 for the six consecutive missed full payments. In the seventh month they SHOULD issue a default. However, they are naughty and they often wait to issue a default until much later which means that your credit record is spoilt for a longer period than it should really be as it stays on for 6 years from the date they place the date on your credit record. It is therefore in your interests to get the default recorded as soon as possible. Hope this explains things.

1. They drop off after 6 years from the date they put the default on your credit file. 2. See 1. 3. They are only allowed to issue one default for each debt. If they are issuing more than one for the same account they are acting unlawfully.

Baz, Have you read this? http://www.grumbletext.co.uk/vt.php?t=205

I know this is in danger of becoming a P1 tribute thread, so maybe I could get it back to questions and answers by saying a final thank you on behalf of everyone on CAG - you really have done an incredible job which is much appreciated by ALL of us. You are an absolute star! And so on to questions..............

Seq - I don't know what kind of input you have as a member of the Site Team, but I've seen this program working and in my honest opinion while it is not for everyone, it is very user friendly, well thought out and developed and if free people could download it and see whether or not they would find it useful. I don't believe it is something that most would use entirely by itself, but in conjunction with advice offered on these forums it would be a very valuable tool for many, if not only for keeping track of exactly what they've done and when they've done it. It does also however have a good range of letters (though Scott knows I feel it is missing quite a few). For what it's worth in my opinion something offered for free that would pull more members into the site must be a good thing. Certainly it would be worth the powers that be having a look at it for evaluation - they'd only need half an hour or so.

You might be surprised. There have been an increasing number of court cases this year where incorrect reconstituted agreements have been successfully challenged by the debtor and courts have ruled in favour of the debtor. They are still by far in the minority, but they are increasing and financial institutions are going to learn fairly swiftly that they are going to need to supply more accurate reconstitutions.

Baz, Personally I'd be asking them to default you now. Technically speaking your CRF should show 0's when you were paying, then when you stopped go 1,2,3,4,5,6 then Default. There is guidance in one of the major pieces of legislation (can't remember which at the moment - OFT on Debt Collection?) which states the creditor should default you as soon as possible. Unfortunately some are ignoring this and leaving it until it either goes to a DCA or I have known one case where the debt was just coming up to 6 years and they put a default on it, thus lengthening the time on the credit file to 12 years. If you can persuade them to default you now with a payment arrangement marker as well then your CRF will be shot for 6 years, but everything should then fall off.

Totally agree firstship. May I just add five words, "You will only deal with this matter in writing for the avoidance of doubt."

Hey Scott, Just read your rant and totally understand how you feel. You know my comments about your program as I've been fortunate enough to see it. If you're offering it for free if I were you I would maybe try to come to some agreement with this site whereby perhaps it is made available free by downloading it from this site. If people find it useful then a voluntary donation should be made to CAG. At least that way if any money is made from it, it may not go to solving your personal debt, but at least it will be reinvested towards helping loads of other people get help solving their debts. If you do find a place to host it, let me know and I'd be very happy to put a link on my website to it.